Worst defensive record in the league

[Yngwie]

We have conceded 29 goals in 15 matches, 3 goals more than any other team.  Conceding virtually 2 goals per game obviously makes it hard to pick up many points.

It's rather uncharacteristic of ICT to appear so porous at the back, so I'd be interested to know what people think is the cause, or causes.  I've also added a poll where you tick whichever factors you think apply.

[12th Man]

What's the stats on the 1st 11 matches which would exclude the recent Hearts, Celtic, Aberdeen and lately Dundee. 

Surely the tide will be with us for the next 7.

 

[bdu98196]

Number of times this season the midfield loose possession and put the back line in trouble or dint create space for the defence to release a pass. With Draper further forwards we need more steel in front of the central pair and with us playing central midfielder on the wing they constantly move insude exposing the full backs. Vigurs and Polwarth are often guilty of loosing the ball then failing to track back leaving the problem to the defence. I feel given the positions played we need more from Vigurs, he needs to get stuck in and be more physical to dominate the midfield if not we need draper back there and another creative or forward outlet. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by bdu98196

[+bughtmaster]

Oh to be able to pin point the weaknesses and at the same time provide the answers !

Tick lists are all very well but it can be a combination of all things or from less to none of them.

We have an excellent goal keeper and he has made some wonderful saves and stops the one criticism I have of him is that he does not seem to have the ability to '  Boss the box  '  an attribute that Dean Brill had, when he played for us, which contributed largely to him keeping so many clean sheets. It is the Keepers area and if he can not do that then it is up to the Captain to ensure that all holes in the defence are adequately filled. Even then there can be leaks so lack of cohesiveness can not be entirely to blame.

Attacking football is our style of play so a high line in midfield has to be maintained, offside traps are necessary but susceptible to the quality of refereeing and line duty that we experience.

Playing the whistle and not anticipating fouls being given can be another problem, which is down to the Captain to ensure that players are alert to this.

That is my take for what it is worth!

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

The starting position is probably the belief we will not get relegated by being a more attack minded team. After a spell at the bottom that focussed minds, we had a fortuitous run, that lead to Richie being named Manager of the Month. Since then things have gone really pear shaped. We are not currently showing attack minded qualities that get results and the attack is far from being the best form of defence. Injuries and suspensions are an issue for all clubs beyond Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Aberdeen. We cannot use that as an excuse. The club has a problem attracting supporters so to develop a stronger defence culture might lead to a further decline in attendances and support. However, to survive, we do need to tighten up at the back and that needs to happen pretty soon with December to the winter break looking to be a dangerous time. A defeat in Dingwall on the 31st could lead to a long and worrying January break that restarts with our bogey team Partick. To survive we need more than ever the spirit of 'Stronger together'. Like many relegated sides, the players we have can produce results if they operate better as a unit.  Josh may well seek to move on in January and that could exacerbate the defensive problem but that is a known possibility. 

[Stirling Observer]

Good thread. I think injuries have contributed to some extent. Our full backs have picked up lots of injuries which affects the cohesion. I agree that we miss drapers steel in there. Although his performance against Aberdeen was below par, perhaps he's become used to playing further forward. Vigurs and tansey tactically don't protect the defence enough. Agree one of the defensive two in midfield must include draper or Polworth. 

 

The worrying thing the games iv been too the Fonze has made some cracking saves to keep the scores at only 2/3.

 

League is going to be the closest it's ever been I think. Every win will be crucial. Every injury or suspension will affect our squad. (See County-Boyce)

[Renegade]

Part of the reason I think lately is our formation and tactics are far too predictable.  It's 4-2-3-1 every game and you can almost guarantee the starting eleven before you even turn up at the ground.  We saw on Saturday Dundee use a 5-3-2.  We have two good attacking wing-backs in Raven and Tremarco, so we have the players to do it.  Time we gave it a try IMO.

[+CaleyD]

The option wasn't on the list....but I think we have the worst defensive record because we've conceded more goals than anyone else!

[tm4tj]

8 hours ago, bughtmaster said:

Oh to be able to pin point the weaknesses and at the same time provide the answers !

Tick lists are all very well but it can be a combination of all things or from less to none of them.

Blah blah blah de blah.....................................

So why not use the poll instead of typing it all out.

[PerfICT]

It is interesting to see Hartley's response to being rooted at the foot of the table: Shore up the defence and make yourselves hard to beat. It paid dividends against us, where Dundee played 5 at the back and let us play in front of them. We have the defenders, but not the defence at the moment. Personally, I'd put Draper back alongside Tansey - winning ball is his biggest strength.

[+bughtmaster]

28 minutes ago, tm4tj said:

So why not use the poll instead of typing it all out.

Sorry you couldn't understand the points I was making and the reasons for them tm4t,j I'll try to make things simpler and clearer for you next time lol de lol delol.

[caley100]

Gary Warren past it?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Hey. Good post / thread. Interesting what the top two are at the moment and they were by first two picks. Have to agree with Renegade and would have put the formation adherence first and the failure of Plan B's etc in second halves of games. As others have also mentioned we have been accustomed to the presence of smaller, nippy second strikers such as McKay, Dargo, Wyness and even Stewart. Perhaps we put too much faith in Boden. He has been a major disappointment as he certainly did appear to fit the bill. Plus we safe now in a situation where Foran will be fraught to experiment.

[TopSix]

Loan signings in in January? Need more goal threat. 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

But we can only afford youngsters and can we take the risk of putting them straight in ?

[RiG]

Can we afford anyone? Foran said recently that the budget has been spent. Unless we move players on I would imagine any players coming in would be minimal.

[hislopsoffsideagain]

Injuries haven't helped - with McNaughton, Raven and McKay missing we were pretty much down to our 4th choice RB at Dens Park.  But the rest of the back four was our first choice lineup, so I think that excuse only works so much.

Our central midfield has been rancid this season.  Playing Vigurs in a deeper role is suicidal from a defensive perspective. He can't tackle (apart from his frequent cynical fouls), and he doesn't bother to track opposing players.  Tansey hasn't offered his defence much more protection; his form has been poor and he's playing like a guy who wishes he was at Aberdeen.  And when Draper plays in front of the back four, good teams pass the ball round him so he can't use his physical presence.

What worries me just as much is that our centre backs are struggling.  Meekings hasn't been at his best this season.  Worse, Warren has been really poor.  At Dundee his failure to close down or back off Wighton properly meant that he got away a shot that OFW couldn't see.  Last week he gave away a stupid penalty with uncharacteristic clumsiness.  And in general he's struggled in the air against big forwards, an area in which he's usually been dominant.  It might be a blip in form, but it might be the start of an inexorable decline.

[The Mantis]

59 minutes ago, hislopsoffsideagain said:

 

What worries me just as much is that our centre backs are struggling.  Meekings hasn't been at his best this season.  Worse, Warren has been really poor.  At Dundee his failure to close down or back off Wighton properly meant that he got away a shot that OFW couldn't see.  Last week he gave away a stupid penalty with uncharacteristic clumsiness.  And in general he's struggled in the air against big forwards, an area in which he's usually been dominant.  It might be a blip in form, but it might be the start of an inexorable decline.

Gary's been a legendary signing for us but at 32 I think he's starting to feel the pace. Too many fouls, too many cards. Josh is another one who I thought would get a big money move to the OF or the Championship in England but I feel he hasn't developed as much as it looked early on. Just to annoy Caley100, it's a bit like the Richard Hastings situation 

[Scarlet Pimple]

 So you are saying that Gary is no longer Gary Glitter,.eh ?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Have you heard about Gary Glitter ? 

[bdu98196]

Few weeks ago, it was Doumbaye who was getting slated and people calling for him to be dropped he wasn't god enough, last week it was Tansey, this week Warren.

Its the manager who picks the formation and 11 starting players - given the nucleus of the team being OFW, Tremarco, Warren, Meekings, Raven, Tansey, Draper, Vigurs, Polly are all the same guys from last year and even going back our most successful period. Perhaps its an indication that the last manager either did better with what he had than he ever should and we are now at our 'real' level or that the new manager is playing tactics and formations that aren't best for our group. But as the last guy is disliked by so many on here it has to be all the players fault this time.

[ictfcsince94]

4 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

Few weeks ago, it was Doumbaye who was getting slated and people calling for him to be dropped he wasn't god enough, last week it was Tansey, this week Warren.

Its the manager who picks the formation and 11 starting players - given the nucleus of the team being OFW, Tremarco, Warren, Meekings, Raven, Tansey, Draper, Vigurs, Polly are all the same guys from last year and even going back our most successful period. Perhaps its an indication that the last manager either did better with what he had than he ever should and we are now at our 'real' level or that the new manager is playing tactics and formations that aren't best for our group. But as the last guy is disliked by so many on here it has to be all the players fault this time.

**Doumbouya**

[ictfcsince94]

well, i see tanz leaving. if he goes, hopefully its in january and not next summer for feck all again. maybe his mind has already moved.  Gaz is getting on a bit, and his lack of pace has shown up in the last few games, especially as he's been horsing up the field in attack.

thought Josh has been pretty decent last few games actually...

i think Richie still figuring out how to get the best out of the team.  Has found a formation that works and is 'scared' to tinker?  I'd like to see something adventurous, but i suspect a 4-5-1 away to the saints.  With our defensive lack of numbers, i'd like to see 3 at the back, and Boden playing off big Lonny up top.  I think we might see something more promising from him if given a full match.  Not likely to be setting the heather on fire if given 20 minutes a month.

[Scarlet Pimple]

IHE, I assume your question about the once semi-great GG is addressed to S.P.?

That being so you must know that the Pimpernell organisation has spies in every quarter of the Globe and yes, I know about him. But what is now known is not worth repeating so onward and upward, eh? 

[Yngwie]

Blimey, the poll results have ended up as a near-perfect standard distribution curve!