Culloden Battlefield 16 april

[+Feb82000]

hi  all am doing the Culloden Battlefield  on 16 april all night vigil and stv may be fliming us on the night

then off

to

Northhumberland to do the schooner hotel then back to  edinburgh  for ghostfest

Culloden Battlefield is just a team event no public

:001: :001: :001:

[caley100]

Culloden Battlefield is just a team event no public

:001: :001: :001:

There's a pity.... :006:

[Alex MacLeod]

What he really means is he's going dogging in the carpark.

[caley100]

What he really means is he's going dogging in the carpark.

Aye aye... and you are familiar with the noctural goings on in the battlefield car park?  :015:

[Scotty]

If F8 saw that, he would at the very least look like he had seen a ghost  :015: :015: :015:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I sincerely hope that the Duke of Cumberland sticks his spicy sausage up yer feckin ghost hunting erse.  :005:

[CaleyD]

Subtle as ever  :015: :015: :015:

[f*ballers wife]

oh my!!!

remember its a WHITE rose to stick between your buttocks!  :021:

[weeStie]

"Culloden Battlefield is just a team event no public"

Aye right, F92K, says who?

It's my birthday on the 16th and no bleddy English TV company is gonnae stop me from going there!

They may tak oor lives but..........................

[Charles Bannerman]

Please let's not fall into the common trap of assuming that the Battle of Culloden was a Scotland - England game. There were large numbers of Scots on both sides as well as not a few English Jacobites. "Old Firm" is a bit closer to the truth but still not bang on the mark. Complicated phenomenon, Jacobitism, and often hijacked by those of the "whingeing Jock" persuasion who like to have a moan about how awful the English have been.

[caley100]

OK, so nail yer colours to the flag Charles, which side would you be on?

[Charles Bannerman]

You mean you want me to choose between a Polish - Italian drunk and a bunch of German imports? Suspect I'd go for the "plague on both your houses" line and opt for a Republic.

The concept of Royalty is pretty synthetic anyway since their perpetuation relies on the hereditary principle in an environment where, since time began, nobody in the Royals is really sure who has been bedding whom.

In other words, it's perfectly possible that they (and that of course includes the present lot) are quite simply - like you and me - the progeny of stable boys, footmen and butlers.

You'd certainly be entitled to come to that conclusion if you look at photos in the Sun and the News of the World of young Harry staggering about the place.

[f*ballers wife]

You mean you want me to choose between a Polish - Italian drunk and a bunch of German imports? Suspect I'd go for the "plague on both your houses" line and opt for a Republic.

The concept of Royalty is pretty synthetic anyway since their perpetuation relies on the hereditary principle in an environment where, since time began, nobody in the Royals is really sure who has been bedding whom.

In other words, it's perfectly possible that they (and that of course includes the present lot) are quite simply - like you and me - the progeny of stable boys, footmen and butlers.

You'd certainly be entitled to come to that conclusion if you look at photos in the Sun and the News of the World of young Harry staggering about the place.

oh my!!!

eh???

charlie sweetness, you use such looooongggggg sentences to say so little! :love07:

[Charles Bannerman]

OK FW... let's break it up into a few simpler stages.

1) One lot at Culloden was as bad as the other. I'd have neither.

2) Being a Royal depends on who your parents were. The job gets passed down.

3) The Royals are notorious for sh**ging around. They've done it big time since time began.

4) So they haven't really got a clue who their parents/ ancestors were.

5) So their case for their existence falls flat on its face.

[Scotty]

their case for their existence falls flat on its face.

Much like Prince Harry  :015: :015: :015:

[+Feb82000]

going to Abseil down St Mary's Well on  the day of the vigil watch out for video of that

:001: :001: :001:

[f*ballers wife]

oh my!!!

charlie sweet~peeee, i thank you from the heart of my bottom for my history lesson  :001:

[Charles Bannerman]

Scotty.... from the pics I saw in the Sun and the NOTW, it looked rather more like he fell on his @**e but in principle, yes. Looks like "Heir's" younger brother "Spare" is going just the same way as his Great Auntie Margaret did under similar circumstances.

[weeStie]

OK CB.  So you're biased against drunks of any persuasion - Scots Austro; Austro - French; - Italo - Anything...................

Or maybe just any sort of drunk?  TBH - who gives a f**k as long as the bledddy English don't prevail!

As a well known besotted scottish sott, I don' care who won the soi-disant 'battle of culloden' as long as I didn lose an the winners buy the drinks, wgaf.

16th April is ours to celebrate an f*ck the rest.  If there's any ghosts there, they're ours an we should be the ones celebrating a glorious loss - just like tonight in Bari!

PS. If Fritz can find fault wi' my English I'll do a thousand lines.

[Charles Bannerman]

Weestie - I think you should do a bit of reading on the Jacobite movement to find out that the event you're discussing definitely wasn't Scotland versus England. It's tended  to be hijacked as such by Nationalism and those of the Whingeing Jock persuasion because they would like to portray the Scots as poor downtrodden sods. As a result Jacobitism and Culloden tend to be misrepresented as some Scotland versus England thing.

I'll say it again. There were huge numbers of Scots in the armies opposing the Jacobites... including Highlanders. For instance the Clan Campbell were wholeheartedly Hanoverian and fought for the Government. Lots of Scots had no time for the Jacobites and fought them tooth and nail and there were also some English Jacobites.

Protestant versus Catholic is a much more accurate definition but still doesn't fully describe the situation.

So how about this alternative take on the Battle of Culloden? By 1746 the Jacobites were into their fifth attempt since 1689 to restore the Stuarts and many Highland clans kept supporting these ventures. The British Government was seriously embroiled on the continent in the War of the Austrian Succession and didn't need this hassle at home. So what they decided to do was to come up North and give the Highlanders a **** good kicking to solve this problem once and for all. And it worked.

Much of that kicking was administered to Highlanders by Lowland Scots, of whom up here we should perhaps be equally wary. Not nice, but that's the way human nature works.

If you want a battle which is genuinely Scotland versus England, the last real one was probably Flodden in 1513 when Scotland travelled South to meet England Reserves and got a right doing...a sort of 9-3 job. (The England First Team were away to France at that time.)

[The Mantis]

Aye CB, all the classes must be getting their end of term videos today then  :015: :015: :015:

[buckett]

"Whit aboot Bannockburrrn?" as I've heard many a 'fellow Scot' say when in mainly English company abroad!

[tm4tj]

Lowland Scots, they are the ones to be very wary of, as has been shown in modern times.

Sold the shirt for a few beers..........

[clacher_holiday2]

think im more of a fan of post culloden scotland than pre culloden. 

suppose all the economic and social progress im happy we made from the mid 1740's onwards really started with the act of union, after culloden we finally had a bit of pollitical stability which helped the country as a whole move forward.  ultimatley this battle led to scotland playing a central role in creating the british empire... came at a hoor a price for our ancestors in the highlands though, to put it lightly

post culloden we started travelling the world under the union flag, having a much greater influence than london in terms of forming economic, academic or judicial institutions around the world.  would never have happened if the jacobites had gathered support on the march through england and actually won, scotland wouldve been pushed back at least a generation  and probably taken about 50 years to recover.

all history though, theres an election coming up which will decide where the next 250 years go, which im hoping goes the way of the snp finally.. but that another topic !

[tm4tj]

I'm too tired to argue on................................but read this

from oppression rules ok

Scottish History

Scottish history, like everything about Scotland, is subject to the Scots proclivity for embroidery. The author makes no claim regarding accuracy. This is mostly just for fun, although there are some serious and true facts (particularly with reference to the Highland Clearances). Serious historians should undertake their own research! When I eventually get round to writing more I'll split it into separate pages.

There are good historical reasons why almost all Scots hate the English and why Highlanders hate not only the English, but also Lowlanders and almost everyone else, except the French.

THE ENGLISH - Why the Scots in general hate the English:

The Act of Union etc.

The Battle of Culloden

why lowlanders hate the English:

The Scots language:

Originally in the Lowands of Scotland, and eventually in most of Scotland the language generally spoken for the last couple of hundred years has been Scots (see language page). However the 'British' government's insistence that all teaching in schools should be in English (an act of Parliament to this effect was passed in 1872) led to the language being denigrated. Scots speakers were made to feel that they were inferior to English speakers. They still used Scots at home but were told in school that this was not "talking properly" and there was a decline in writing in Scots. Received pronunciation or "the Queen's English" ruled, and anyone who spoke this way was seen as cleverer and superior to those who used Scots words. I grew up in Aberdeen being told that the way Aberdonians talked was 'common' and that I would never get on in life if I talked like that - yet at the same time I was awarded prizes for reciting poetry in this 'forbidden' language! This was but one of the many contradictions in my upbringing.

Why highlanders hate the English even more than lowlanders do:

The highland clearances

The Gaelic language:

In the Highlands of Scotland, until around 100 years ago, the language generally spoken was the Gaelic. The Gaelic was virtually wiped out by the 'British' government's insistence that all teaching in schools should be in English. To illustrate this point; my great grandmother had virtually no English, my grandparents were bilingual and my mother had none of the Gaelic worth mentioning. The outcome of this has been that Highlanders speak better English than the English themselves, especially in Inverness, and hate the English even more than they would otherwise. The higlanders, however (knowing themselves to be superior to the English and pretty well anyone else), were never cowed in the way that lowlanders were by things imposed from London.

HIGHLANDERS AND LOWLANDERS

Why Highlanders hate Lowlanders almost as much as they hate the English:

1) Some treacherous lowland Chieftains colluded with the English for profit, helping the English to defeat the Scots. This enabled the English to annexe Scotland and create the act of union, thus giving the English control over Scotland's affairs to this day; though now that Scotland has a parliament this may begin to change.

2) Many of the landowners involved in the highland clearances were lowlanders

McDonalds and Campbells

Why the McDonalds hate the Campbells:

The Massacre of Glencoe

THE FRENCH

Why the Scots (mostly) like the French:

Bonnie prince Charlie

Jacobite rebellion

The Auld Alliance

and of course the fact that the French don't much like the English or the Germans.

Some general historical bits and bobs:

Hadrian's Wall

Contrary to popular belief Hadrians wall was built by the Romans to protect the cissy English from straying into Scotland and being hammered by the Scots, not to stop the Scots from getting into England. Most Scots to this day don't think much of England. Scots only go south to extract money from the English to make up for everything the English stole from Scotland.

The Black hand

Everyone has heard of Sinn Feinn and the IRA in Ireland but few seem to know that Scotland also had freedom fighters, called the Black Hand, who used terrorist tactics in their fight for an independent Scotland. Attempts to gain an independent Scotland are now pursued through the democratic process by politicians. Some in Scotland hope that the recent devolution of some power to a Scottish parliament will eventually lead to independence.

The Massacre of Glencoe

The notorious incident in which the Campbells, having accepted the hospitality of the McDonalds, then opened the doors during the night and allowed the McDonalds to be massacred in their beds. The McDonalds offered the Campbells hospitality, sharing salt with them at the table and allowing the Campbells stay the night. Salt was an expensive commodity in those days and to share it was a sign of friendship. As the McDonalds slept the Campbells sealed off their escape route and the McDonalds were murdered in their beds. This betrayal has not only never been forgiven by the McDonalds, it also led to the Campbells being viewed with suspicion by most other Scots.

The Highland clearances

Most highlanders were self sufficient until relatively recently, in historical terms. They were small - scale farmers who rented land from the local landowner on which they grew their own crops and kept their own animals, selling any extra food they produced. This was the general way of life for most people in the north until the highland clearances.

During the Highland Clearances of the late 18th and early 19th centuries thousands families were evicted, often violently, from their homes. This was done to make way for large scale sheep farming, which was more profitable for the landowners (mostly sassenachs). Homes were burnt and tenants forced to leave at the point of a sword or musket, carrying little or nothing as they headed towards a life of poverty and hunger. Small scale tenant farmers were forced onto smaller plots of barren land. The crofts, as these plots of land were known, had very poor agricultural potential and it was well nigh impossible for the crofters to make a living from the land.

Most of these small plots of land failed to produce a living for the crofters, even when combined with fishing, kelping (gathering kelp - a type of seaweed) or other work. It was a hopeless situation for many. Huge rent increases, over-fishing and over-kelping resulted in destitution and starvation. When, in 1846, the potato crop failed (with devastaing effect, particularly in Ireland) many were left with no alternative but to migrate south or emigrate to the colonies. I suspect that the film actors, the Sutherlands, are descendants of my cousins' family the (tattie) Sutherlands who were potato farmers. Donald looks so much like uncle Ian and cousin Jim, and Kiefer looks so like my cousin Uisdean did before he put on weight and started loosing his hair (Uisdean not Keifer) that they've got to be related.

Prior to the clearances my great grandparents were able to support their family through small-scale farming but those of my grandparents generation who wished to keep up the crofting had to find additional work elsewhere. Some members of my family managed to hang on to crofting until after the First World War by taking up other work in the local villages and towns.

My Grandfather was the last crofter in our family. In the early years of their marriage my grandmother cleaned for the local doctor and my grandfather became the village Bobby to support their young family whilst still working on the croft. For anyone from Golspie who remembers him, he was Hugh Mackay and was known as "Old Kruger" (don't know if I've spelt that right as I've never seen it written down). I understand that the nickname had something to do with the Boer War but I can't remember what now.

Eventually he gave up the crofting and moved into a house in the village (in the 1930's I think) and became a full time policeman. Some members of my family emigrated to Canada around the turn of the century as there seemed little option. Reminders of the days when my mother's family were farmers now remain for me only in a few old photographs, and for my cousins (who were from Dornoch) in their collective nickname of "Tattie" which dates back to the time when their father's family were potato farmers.

In Sutherland the clearances were particularly violent. Even today, generations later, arguments around this issue still rage and the scars remain. In Golspie, the village from which my mother's family came, there are moves to remove the statue of the hated Duke of Sutherland from the top of the hill overlooking the village and replace it with a memorial to the victims of the clearances and a great deal of argument surrounds this issue in the area.