MP'S or Fatcats

[Canada Bob]

Can someone explain why politicians earn so much money, how is it worked out?

There's an oxymoron for you, "Politicians" and "Earning" in the same sentance, sigh...

It's bad enough that an MP's basic pay is around 70k a year, double that for a Minister, it's the "expenses" they get around 250k per year, to employ "staff" think sons, daughters, grandmothers {yea, really}, then they get free travel on BA plus loads of free First Class rail tickets and so on, then they pad that lot up with "second house expenses" and on it goes.

Now that's only "wages and expenses" oh, and don't forget that expenses are tax free, but they aren't even satisfied with that, they then get signed up as "Directors" of companies, money for nowt again, and like the Lords who took back handers to "advise" certain companies or SIG's the b*stards are wallowing in "free money".

To add insult to injury after 6 years the pricks can "retire" on a pension that most folks could only dream of...

Don't forget they afford themselves this lifestyle out of your pockets, makes you want to throw up don't it...

Canada Bob.

[MrsICTFC]

Can someone explain why politicians earn so much money, how is it worked out?

There's an oxymoron for you, "Politicians" and "Earning" in the same sentance, sigh...

It's bad enough that an MP's basic pay is around 70k a year, double that for a Minister, it's the "expenses" they get around 250k per year, to employ "staff" think sons, daughters, grandmothers {yea, really}, then they get free travel on BA plus loads of free First Class rail tickets and so on, then they pad that lot up with "second house expenses" and on it goes.

Now that's only "wages and expenses" oh, and don't forget that expenses are tax free, but they aren't even satisfied with that, they then get signed up as "Directors" of companies, money for nowt again, and like the Lords who took back handers to "advise" certain companies or SIG's the b*stards are wallowing in "free money".

To add insult to injury after 6 years the pricks can "retire" on a pension that most folks could only dream of...

Don't forget they afford themselves this lifestyle out of your pockets, makes you want to throw up don't it...

Canada Bob.

It certainly does. I don't know what makes me think politicians want to help people in Great Britain? So surely if they took a cut in wages etc this would help Britain??

[Canada Bob]

It certainly does. I don't know what makes me think politicians want to help people in Great Britain?

So surely if they took a cut in wages etc this would help Britain??

These b*ggers aren't in it for the good on the land, they are in it for their own good, it's bugger you once they get their head in the trough...

What I want to know is, where's Guy Fawkes when you need him, sigh...

Canada Bob.

[MrsICTFC]

It certainly does. I don't know what makes me think politicians want to help people in Great Britain?

So surely if they took a cut in wages etc this would help Britain??

These b*ggers aren't in it for the good on the land, they are in it for their own good, it's bugger you once they get their head in the trough...

What I want to know is, where's Guy Fawkes when you need him, sigh...

Canada Bob.

Maybe we are in the wrong job

I suppose it was silly of me to think they wanted to help the country!

[FortressICT]

"I suppose it was silly of me to think they wanted to help the country!"

It frustrates me when people say stuff like that. Yes, the MP's etc are payed well but they do an excellent job of keeping the UK/Scotland a good place to live.

If your saying stuff like that, how would you cope in country where the government are corrupt etc.

We should all be grateful for what we have in the UK, look at the state people are living in in Africa! So stop moaning about our government, think what it would be like to spend a day in the live of an African in the conditions they live in, no food, no water...no hope.

[Caley Stan]

"I suppose it was silly of me to think they wanted to help the country!"

It frustrates me when people say stuff like that. Yes, the MP's etc are payed well but they do an excellent job of keeping the UK/Scotland a good place to live.

If your saying stuff like that, how would you cope in country where the government are corrupt etc.

We should all be grateful for what we have in the UK, look at the state people are living in in Africa! So stop moaning about our government, think what it would be like to spend a day in the live of an African in the conditions they live in, no food, no water...no hope.

In many ways i admire your faith Rosscoe - it's a beautiful thing to trust people and to believe that people are doing things for the right reasons. In day to day life you can go a long way with that attitude. If you trust and believe in the people you encounter, they rarely let you down.

However, when it comes to our elected representatives, a little more caution is required.

When we vote for a candidate at an election, we give them our consent to represent us and if they are elected, they take with them the combined power of a large number of people. Here's a local example:

In 2001, David Stewart was elected as MP for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey - a constituency with a population of almost 90,000.

Over 15, 000 people voted for Mr Stewart and he was sent to London to represent the area. This gave him the right to vote on a number of issues which affect our lives, one of which was the decision to overthrow the government of Iraq, killing tens of thousands of people and making billions of pounds for US corporations in the process.

How did Mr Stewart, our elected representative, vote?

Did he vote according to the will of the 15, 000 who elected him?

Did he vote according to the best interests of the 90, 000 people he represented?

Did he vote according to his own conscience, for what he believed was right?

Or.......

Did he vote according to his own interests? Did he vote for promotion, for more money, more prestige and more power?

In March 2003, David Stewart voted in favour of the invasion of Iraq. Four months later he was appointed Parliamentary Private Secretary to Alistair Darling.

Don't let these ***** represent you.

[Johnboy]

How did Mr Stewart, our elected representative, vote?

Did he vote according to the will of the 15, 000 who elected him?

Did he vote according to the best interests of the 90, 000 people he represented?

Did he vote according to his own conscience, for what he believed was right?

Or.......

Did he vote according to his own interests? Did he vote for promotion, for more money, more prestige and more power?

Inclined to plump for the last one there, Stan.... but he did get his come-uppance at the last election which I hope taught him something.

What about the latest expenses fiddling scandal? Jacquie Smith, having just been found out for falsley claiming allowances for her second home, has now been found out again for allowing her husband's insatiable appetite for porn films, to also form part of her expense claims. That is just utterly obscene - the expense claim I mean - not the porn films..

Come to think of it if I was married to Ms Smith I would probably watch a lot of porn as well...

[Canada Bob]

What about the latest expenses fiddling scandal? Jacquie Smith, having just been found out for falsley claiming allowances for her second home, has now been found out again for allowing her husband's insatiable appetite for porn films, to also form part of her expense claims. That is just utterly obscene - the expense claim I mean - not the porn films..

You having us on Johnboy ? I haven't heard about it, mind you we're a bit out of touch here in Galway. Hope you dint hear about it in the pub, I can't see a Minister being that stupid or arrogant, not after the trouble she's just been in.

[Glen Mhor]

Today's revelations about Jacqui Smith's husband's porn film bill being claimed on paliamentary expenses is just another example of the utter contempt the "political class" hold us all in. Until there is root and branch reform of the parliamenty expenses gravy train there will be yet more examples of the snout in the trough mentality which permeates Westmister. Is it any wonder that the voters/taxpayers are completely alienated from the whole politcal process ?

[Johnboy]

What about the latest expenses fiddling scandal? Jacquie Smith, having just been found out for falsley claiming allowances for her second home, has now been found out again for allowing her husband's insatiable appetite for porn films, to also form part of her expense claims. That is just utterly obscene - the expense claim I mean - not the porn films..

You having us on Johnboy ? I haven't heard about it, mind you we're a bit out of touch here in Galway. Hope you dint hear about it in the pub, I can't see a Minister being that stupid or arrogant, not after the trouble she's just been in.

It's absolutely true Bob.... She has already owned up and is promising to repay the costs of these porn movies.

We appear now to be governed by the lowest of the low, the very dreggs of society..

What are you doing in Galway? You're not by any chance representing an Indian tribe of native Americans trying to recapture a canoe?

see here

[Renegade]

"I suppose it was silly of me to think they wanted to help the country!"

It frustrates me when people say stuff like that. Yes, the MP's etc are payed well but they do an excellent job of keeping the UK/Scotland a good place to live.

Do they? This current lot have made Britain one of the most hated nations on Earth. Thank God for that! And not just that they kill innocent civillians in other countries too! It just gets better and better.

If your saying stuff like that, how would you cope in country where the government are corrupt etc.

They are corrupt. Especially when it comes to big oil and special interests.

We should all be grateful for what we have in the UK, look at the state people are living in in Africa! So stop moaning about our government, think what it would be like to spend a day in the live of an African in the conditions they live in, no food, no water...no hope.

What about the people starving in Britain? Your beloved government aint helping them. And why do you think that many Africans (Africa being the second richest continent on Earth might I add) are in the condition they are? Something to do with debt owed to none other than the brilliant British government who also stick their nutcase leader (like Mugabe) in, in the first place.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Renegade

[MrsICTFC]

"I suppose it was silly of me to think they wanted to help the country!"

It frustrates me when people say stuff like that. Yes, the MP's etc are payed well but they do an excellent job of keeping the UK/Scotland a good place to live.

Do they? This current lot have made Britain one of the most hated nations on Earth. Thank God for that! And not just that they kill innocent civillians in other countries too! It just gets better and better.

If your saying stuff like that, how would you cope in country where the government are corrupt etc.

They are corrupt. Especially when it comes to big oil and special interests.

We should all be grateful for what we have in the UK, look at the state people are living in in Africa! So stop moaning about our government, think what it would be like to spend a day in the live of an African in the conditions they live in, no food, no water...no hope.

What about the people starving in Britain? Your beloved government aint helping them. And why do you think that many Africans (Africa being the second richest continent on Earth might I add) are in the condition they are? Something to do with debt owed to none other than the brilliant British government who also stick their nutcase leader (like Mugabe) in, in the first place.

I don't often agree with Renegade but I have to agree with the above.

I also don't see why because other countries are in a bad state why I shouldn't moan?? I am entitled to moan as my taxes pay for their wages. I am entitled to moan because right now I live in the UK. Just because there is someone worse off than us in another country doesn't mean I don't have the right to moan.

[Yngwie]

(Africa being the second richest continent on Earth might I add)

I can't wait to hear where you are getting that from.

[Caley Stan]

(Africa being the second richest continent on Earth might I add)

I can't wait to hear where you are getting that from.

I think he means in terms of natural resources. This is something that's very difficult to measure, especially after the all of the raping and pillaging we've been doing down there for the last few centuries.

[Yngwie]

In terms of natural resources still in the ground it may well be rich on paper, but that is of little consolation to the 36% of Africans who live on less than $1 a day. GDP per capita is perhaps a more meaningful and comparable measure of wealth.

[Canada Bob]

It's absolutely true Bob.... She has already owned up and is promising to repay the costs of these porn movies.

I though it was a wind up, nothing on the news here, and nothing in the papers either, but later in the day I heard folks in the pub laughing about it, sigh, still hard to believe though hey, you couldn't make this stuff up hey.

We appear now to be governed by the lowest of the low, the very dreggs of society...

It's one thing a bloke renting a porno movie, who hasn't done that, that's no big deal, but for a Minister of the Government to have the fekkin' nerve to claim for it, and that the claim wasn't questioned by anyone {until now} gives you some idea of the brass neck of these b*astards...

What are you doing in Galway? You're not by any chance representing an Indian tribe of native Americans trying to recapture a canoe?

We've been touring all ore Ireland for the last 3 months, started out in Westport County Mayo, moved on the Rathmullen County Donegal, two weeks in both places, then moved Ballygally County Antrim, 5 miles west of Larne where the Stranraer Ferry sails from, did 4 weeks there, Giants Causeway and all that, then moved to Newcastle County Down for almost 4 weeks, then 4-5 days in Galway before we fly back to the Untidy Kingdom on Monday.

Been to some decent pubs while we've been ore here, can't beat the Traditional Music Pubs, love it when they get the bodrums going and someone rhymes off a few Joseph Locke songs, spent this afternoon singing me bollocks off at the pub below, I was thrilled when they struck up with "Although I go to fight a foreign foe", as a result of 4 pints of Guinness I was outsinging the best of them, great pub, I'll be back there later when I've had a nap...

If yer ever in Galway, this is THE place to head for...

Best Pub in Galway...

We'll be staying in Blackpool until the 3rd May then we head back to Nova Scotia, if I'd known about that canoe I could have shoved it in me case and took it back for them. Why they'd go to all that trouble for a birch bark canoe gawd only knows, you can get a decent fibre glass canoe for $300 / 150 quid from "Canadian Tire", easier to repair too, but you can never figure them Indians out, no doubt they were on a *iss up when they came up with the idea of asking for their canoe back...

Canada Bob.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Canada Bob

[Johnboy]

We'll be staying in Blackpool until the 3rd May then we head back to Nova Scotia, if I'd known about that canoe I could have shoved it in me case and took it back for them. Why they'd go to all that trouble for a birch bark canoe gawd only knows, you can get a decent fibre glass canoe for $300 / 150 quid from "Canadian Tire", easier to repair too, but you can never figure them Indians out, no doubt they were on a *iss up when they came up with the idea of asking for their canoe back...

Canada Bob.

Bob : If the Good Lord had intended us to have fibreglass canoes or boats, He'd have grown fibreglass trees.

[Canada Bob]

I also don't see why because other countries are in a bad state why I shouldn't moan?? I am entitled to moan as my taxes pay for their wages. I am entitled to moan because right now I live in the UK. Just because there is someone worse off than us in another country doesn't mean I don't have the right to moan.

You get my vote on the above...

They even have the nerve to talk about the "trickle down" benefits that outragious spending by Whitehall and the Town Halls across the land engage in, but I think most folks are sick of being "trickled on".

If you think that it's just the MP's, Ministers, Lords and their hangers on ripping the taxpayers off, it's a good job you don't know what goes on in the Town Halls. When you pay your Council Tax you would hope that it pays for services provided by the council, including wages to folks capable of doing what they are employed to do, and paid a rate that reflects their ability, some hope.

Council Tax goes up, services go down, while the b*stards dream up another way to stick a "Fixed Penalty" on you. You get one of those in Bolton if your bin lid is open when the bin men come round, or if you haven't sorted out the different kinds of rubbish, even though at the end of the day they have been sending the whole lot to the land fill !!!

I know enough of them "employed" LONG TERM, {think 20-30 years and more} by Bolton & Wigan Authorities, to be honest none of them would be able to get a job in the Private Sector at the rates they've wangled for themselves once they get their heads into the public money trough. To add to that, I know for a fact that for every ?1 they contribute to their pensions the local authority contributes ?3 !!! and why wouldn't they, the ones who vote to do this have their heads in the self same trough...

Where the **** can anyone get a deal like that ! 3 quid of the tax payers money for every one that they throw into the hat, and remember that in the first place a high percentage of these pricks aren't even worthy of employment, let alone worth the money they keep voting in for themselves and their depts.

As an example, one woman I know is the "Emergency Response Coordinator", she goes on expense paid trips all over the place so that she and hundreds of other useless b*ggers like her will be able to tell us what to do "if the Russians Invade" !!! no, I'm NOT making it up, she's on about 40k a year plus her expenses to be there for us "if the Bomb goes off". She goes to these meetings, claims near a wage in travelling expenses, gets the Hotel and food paid for, and on it goes...

This same woman screams her bleedin head off if she sees a spider, no, I'm NOT joking, she'd be worse than fekkin useless in ANY emergency, but seeing as how her original job became a dead ender, she was appointed to this nonsense... I can't help but RANT about this, the reason being I know these b*stards, and how they work the system to promote each other to absolutely incredible positions and astronomical wages, expenses and pensions for doing **** all.

All this while Nurses doing 12 hour shifts for 10-15 grand less than these r soles get, without any perks at all, have to pay to park their cars on the hospital car parks, how fekked up is that !!!

Canada Bob.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Canada Bob

[DAM]

What about the latest expenses fiddling scandal? Jacquie Smith, having just been found out for falsley claiming allowances for her second home, has now been found out again for allowing her husband's insatiable appetite for porn films, to also form part of her expense claims. That is just utterly obscene - the expense claim I mean - not the porn films..

You having us on Johnboy ? I haven't heard about it, mind you we're a bit out of touch here in Galway. Hope you dint hear about it in the pub, I can't see a Minister being that stupid or arrogant, not after the trouble she's just been in.

It's absolutely true Bob.... She has already owned up and is promising to repay the costs of these porn movies.

We appear now to be governed by the lowest of the low, the very dreggs of society..

What are you doing in Galway? You're not by any chance representing an Indian tribe of native Americans trying to recapture a canoe?

see here

According to the papers she has also claimed 88p for a bath plug but that's understandable, after all the poor lassie is only on 141 thousand pounds a year plus all other perks.

[Canada Bob]

According to the papers she has also claimed 88p for a bath plug but that's understandable, after all the poor lassie is only on 141 thousand pounds a year plus all other perks.

Now that has to be a wind up FFS... come on now... no BBC or ITV here, just RTE, so I don't know what's going on.

Canada Bob.

PS... how does this "I'll pay it back" caper work ?

Can I rob a Bank, and if I get caught say "it was all a mistake, I didn't realize what I was doing" so I'll pay the money back, would that get me off being a Criminal ? is that how it works ?

If so, I'll have a do at it, surely they won't catch me every time ?

Edited March 29, 2009 by Canada Bob

[Johnboy]

Full story here

[Canada Bob]

Thanks for that Johnboy, just been reading it, beggars belief, 'specially these bits...

Although her husband, Richard Timney, 46, submits her expenses claims as part of his ?40,000-a-year job as her assistant, she personally signs the form each month, declaring: ?I confirm that I incurred these costs wholly, exclusively and necessarily to enable me to stay overnight away from my only or main home for the purpose of performing my duties.?

Documents submitted to the Commons authorities show Ms Smith has claimed ?150,304 for the cost of running a second home since 2001, including fully fitting it out.

The Sunday Express has seen the documents that show Ms Smith has claimed for virtually every major household item over the past five years, right down to the kitchen sink.

It was a ?550 stone model from Habitat. The minister, who earns ?141,866-a-year, even claimed for an 88p bath plug.

She had already spent ?460 on a dining room table, ?704 on a sofabed, and ?1,000 on an antique fireplace.

She even claimed for the cost of coal to burn in it.

Other items included a Hotpoint cooker, at ?399 plus ?15 connection, a Hotpoint tumble dryer worth ?189 and two washing machines in under two years, a ?249 Ariston and a Zanussi worth nearly ?300.

Her entertainment centre was to include DVD players, two Samsung widescreen televisions and two digital set-top boxes worth more than ?1,100.

The Commons authorities are in the final stages of preparing the details for release after removing personal information such as telephone numbers and bank account details.

Some MPs still hope to block publication until after the next election.

Ms Smith?s husband has been a source of embarrassment to her before. Last year he was unmasked as the author of a series of letters written to a newspaper backing her policies, without revealing he was married to her, or employed by her.

The rants ranged from support from her plans for a national identity card to berating former Tory leader Michael Howard.

Don't these b*stards expect to pay for ANYTHING from their own pockets !!! if this aint taking the p*ss, what is !!!

Here's the thing though, if she had ANY decency about her she'd hand her cards in, but you can bet she'll want to run again in the next election, what a bleedin nerve these b*ggars have...

Edited March 29, 2009 by Canada Bob

[absent friend]

"I suppose it was silly of me to think they wanted to help the country!"

It frustrates me when people say stuff like that. Yes, the MP's etc are payed well but they do an excellent job of keeping the UK/Scotland a good place to live.

If your saying stuff like that, how would you cope in country where the government are corrupt etc.

We should all be grateful for what we have in the UK, look at the state people are living in in Africa! So stop moaning about our government, think what it would be like to spend a day in the live of an African in the conditions they live in, no food, no water...no hope.

Well R23, I applaud your sentiment!!

Lets look at some areas being discussed on here.

No, before I do that I would like to direct you to the P & B site, Red Ultras site, etc and look for this type of content, no chance! I am so proud of all ICT has achieved but I am equally proud of this site and the contents therein.

Anyway the points under discussion.

If all politicians are corrupt, we are in one awful state. If no candidate is standing for principle but only for selfish reasons, we are in an awful state. I cannot subscribe to that. We have people like Tony Benn, nose already in a well off trough and gives up his title to give back to the country/people his tuppence worth. He is not on his own but just an example.

If it is so easy and so well paid why are the critics not standing and changing the system, one wonders!

Well paid? ?70, 000 per year?? I have plumbers earning that sort of money, offshore workers earning that sort of money, engineers earning that money. A guy managing a team of door mail droppers earning that money!

The position an MP holds, with all the responsibility attached to it, is worth, in my opinion, well in excess of ?70,000 plus expenses. Have a look at the oil company execs. income and expenses and as we are now aware, bankers income and expenses and do a comparison. They do not vote on our country going to war etc!

Expenses - this second home allowance for an MP, as I understand it, has only the interest being funded by the state.

Take a loan of ?300000, small change in London, monthly cost ?1800, of this total, the amount being paid by the tax payer, assuming tracker rate, is circa ?250 per month. Not a big cost to us when you consider all the bad press this receives.

Hands up, did you think it was all paid by us?

Now, this MP should be sacked for two porn film charges to her MP expenses, by her partner, by mistake! Cost? I am pleased to say I don't know!

Say ?20!!

How many tradesmen have put an extra couple of hours on a timesheet? Employees come in late or leave early and claim for a full day? AND, there is no question of mistake in their actions.

Lastly, if we were all responsible for our partners actions, now where would that leave us? Partner caught drink in charge -Oops, we have just lost our driving job! Partner has ill health - Oops, you have just failed your medical.

Daft isn't it!! Yet this MP is responsible for her partners actions when she was not even there! Yes there is room for reform and not before time BUT don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!

.

[starchief]

A country gets the government it deserves. Everyone berates the spin of Labour (although it was Satchi and Satchi that really began it in Thatcher's day) but so few people actually look into policies. The fact that Labour can win in certain places due to them being left-wing (that was a looooooooooooooooong time ago), or the Tories being good at economics (two recessions, sky-high unemployment and interest rates at over 15%, not to mention more businesses collapsing than ever before) is a damning indictment of the electorate. As Churchill so rightly said:

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

[Canada Bob]

Nu Labour promised to put an end to "Tory Sleaze" yet they don't want the public to know what they've up to until AFTER the next Election !!! Obviously it would bugger up their chances of being re-elected, and they want to keep their heads in the trough that you are providing for them...

As far as the Home Secretary is concerned, remember her job is to establish respect for the Law etc. How can she excuse an attempt to rip the taxpayers off ? Forget the porno for a minute, isn't it "fair" that anyone who wants to watch cable TV pays for it out of their own pocket. Millions in the UK can't even get a NHS Dentist yet she feels that the taxpayers should be providing her with cable TV !

To add insult to injury how arrogant was it of her to ask the taxpayer to pay for the friggin coal she burns, at a time when millions of families aren't only feeling the pinch from the ecomony but the pinch of their fuel bills.

Why do they feel that whatever they want to watch on TV is at the taxpayers expense, do you think it's right that you should foot the bill if they want to watch Chelsea or Oceans 13, or anything else, what's the odds they submit a claim for their TV license ? is there anything they don't claim for !

If the Home Secretary can't see that what she did was wrong she should be removed from her job, my bet is she knew what she was doing, but felt she was beyond reproach and above the law.

As for the wages of Politicians vs the wages paid to people in the private sector, the difference is, you have to make money in the private sector before you can expect to be paid a wage. If you are incompetent in the private sector you're gone at the end of the week, if your dishonest in the private sector your gone within the hour, no excuses and no "I'll put the money back in the till, and we'll all forget about it", if anyone did that where you work you'd be gobsmacked at their nerve...

I don't know what folks are earning in the UK, but here's a fact for you, less than 5% of people in the UK EVER have ?100,000 in the Bank, no matter how hard they work, no matter what their job is, no matter how long they've worked, Jaqcui Smith has claimed more than that in Expenses {tax free expenses that is} in the last 5 years or so...

According to the latest figures that I'm aware of, in 2006 in the UK 1 person in 7 was living below the Poverty Line.

Fair enough the country needs people like Jacqui, after all Gordon says she's doing a good job, might be a good idea to vote them all in again, I'm sure there's some who will feel that way...

But in my book most MP's are doing more for themselves than they are for the country or their constituents ?

They aren't Socialists nor are they Capitalists, they are Opportunists, like Fagin they'll dip into anyone's pocket...

Edited March 30, 2009 by Canada Bob