Scotland

[Council Juice]

Alot has been said over the last couple of days over our, yet again, abject failure to qualify for the world cup. Some want Burely out. Some everyone at the SFA. Im using a quote below as it forms a base for most of my points and counterpoints.

No doubt the SFA will make scapegoats of Burley & co and they'll get the boot in a few days. IMHO it's Smith and Peat and, well probably the whole of the SFA, that should be resigning....(no point in half measures!!)

For once tonight I actually agreed with Charlie Nicholas !!! The way the game is coached from a young age in this country needs to change. Our players have much less technical ability than any of the top nations. Or is it that our players do/did have the skills but have them coached out? Ronald de Boer also talked a lot of sense re the coaching side of things. He said that a 10 year old should be taught ball skills, not how to win a championship....that comes later. It should not matter that a 10 year old is not physically strong or extra tall, as if they have the ball skills at an early age then their strength can be gained at a older age.

Tonight, strangely enough, I'm left feeling sorry for Burley ??? He admitted he's made mistakes, but at least he's admitted it! He's had to deal with two of his top players flicking the v sign to the Scottish public. He's had a 'player' take the huff and walk out on the national team (if Boyd ever plays for Scotland again I'll be disgusted). He's had Peat blame everyone but himself.....

FTSFA!

I think it might be worth getting a technical director in who isnt from Scotland. A Dutchman for example. Someone to come in with a different philosophy and start it from grass roots level. Too many times do you hear that lads arent big enough at 14 years old. Then they get the boot and 2 years later have grown a foot but have given up the game. Why do they not look at the Man Utd system, the Arsenal system and the West Ham system, who teach players to not only have a winning mentality and how to actually play football as a team.

Burley has made mistakes and is right to admit he has. Took him long enough. He's made far too many personel mistakes in needlessly singling out players and critisising them ie Broadfoot being limited, Weir too old despite being the most experienced defender still playing at the top (champ league) and having played in the best league in the world. Not only that he is by far our best defender.

He went with too many friendlies early on against hard opposition ie Czech Rep and Croatia... as well as Argentina. If you want to experiment, and that he did, you dont do it against the top teams(irregardless of their current form).

Boyd was wrong to spit the dummy but i'd take him back certainly. Why he was continuously overlooked and only given 20 minutes game time in 6 games is ridiculous. I thought Burley wanted to play attacking football yet he never once went with the most natural striker we had.

That brings me to my next point... his inconsistency in his selection policy. Kris Boyd was left out because he wasnt playing enough games. This despite having scored vital goal in both cup finals the previous season and finished as the top scoring Scotsman in the SPL. He was also among the top scorers despite not being a regular for his club at the time. That season he went on to become the top scorer in the SPL. Fair enough if he's not playing you dont pick him but everyone knows that if you play him he'll score. That simple. but if you want to set a rule at least follow it through your principles. Here are a few examples.

Shaun Maloney - Out injured for 4 months last season. Made 2 appearances. Called up

James Mcfadden - Dropped 2 games before Norway game for loss of form- 1 goal in 13 for Birmingham. Called up and played.

Stephen McManus - Not played since last season because of injury. Played 180 minutes.

Craig Gordon - Started v Iceland despite not having played at club level for considerable length of time.

Burleys line ups have often bewildered. Calum Davidson?! Having a laugh there are we not? Gary Teale? Alexander at defensive mid over natural defensive mid Hartley? David Clarkson in the squad?!

I did agree with his call up of Kyle - He deserved chance. As does Riordan again (over Clarkson at any rate)

Kris Commons flatters to decieve. Both he and Morrison are better in the middle. Not wide right.

Being honest we could have been down 3 or 4 at half time against Macedonia if it wasnt for good keeping, Weir being in the right place at the right time more often than not, and good luck/poor finishing.

Fletcher is completely right in that the team hasn't been good enough over the campaign.

Some Burley defenders have pointed out that he plays more attacking football than former bosses. It might be worth pointing out that his team have scored less and conceded more than either Smiths or McLeish's teams. And not looked anywhere near as threatening. As a fairly poor team (which we are) Scotland need to be well drilled and efencively sound 1st and foremost. We should also take advantage more often from set plays. Burley doesnt like this style despite it being very effective. He wants the Argentina job clearly.

I think Burley, unfortunately, with his PR gaffes and selection policy (in both squad and who he plays) has to go.

For all the good play in the last 2 games we were lucky against Macedonia and beaten against the Dutch, albeit expectedly. It cannot be compared to previous campaigns in that we failed on last day games in that Smith had to completely revamp the team in one and in the other we had France, Italy and Ukraine in our group whereas Burley only had 1 really good team.

I only hope we can avoid Souness.

[caleyboy]

Strachan or Souness (with Joe Jordon around the camp) will do me until the next time we fail to qualify.

[RiG]

I think the best thing to do is accept we just aren't that good and seriously punched above our weight in previous campaigns and, at best, we will contest a "best runners up spot" for future qualifying stages.

[Council Juice]

I'd really like someone who doesnae talk p*sh so pdunno bout either.

I'd like Levein just because of his ability to get the best out of his teams and their general strength in set pieces. Add to the fact he talks sense and is definitely not a yes man (ask Hearts and SFA) The latter probably stopping his chances of getting job for now.

We aint gonna get any Premiership manager (money) and we often appoint managers out of contract.

I'd look at Darren Ferguson at Peteborough, Billy Davies again perhaps. I'd take Strachan I suppose.

Not McGhee, not Souness.

[Council Juice]

I think the best thing to do is accept we just aren't that good and seriously punched above our weight in previous campaigns and, at best, we will contest a "best runners up spot" for future qualifying stages.

We generally always have looked to finish 2nd and often have. Brown got us to Euro 96 via either play offs or best runners up (cant remember). We got to 98 as best runners up. We got to the Euro 2000 play-offs v England- lost 2-1. No idea what happened for 2002 world cup. Cant remember at all. Berti got us to play off v Holland in 2003 for Euro 04- Won 1-0 at Hampden but they got through on a technicality.

For 06 World cup Berti had us bottom and dying but in stepped Smith and took us to 3rd after a final day defeat to Belarus(blip) McLeish took over reigns and after beating France in Paris took us to within a whisker of topping the group. In a group which contained Italy and Ukraine as well.

Burley was given a group in which if we beat Macedonia and Iceland home and away and a victory at Home against Norway we'd be in play offs. He failed as did Berti.. who lost his job may i add. I'd also say Vogts had a much tougher task in that he had to rebuild a team in which Lambert, Collins and Craig Burley had retired from. Alot of others were over the hill and nobody obvious was coming through. We used to panic if Steven Crawford wasnt going to make it. Thats how bad it got at one point.

Burely had a settled squad who nearly qualified as winners ahead of the world champions and then went about dismantling it.

[RiG]

Burely also had to contend with a bunch of utter fannies in MacGregor, Ferguson and Boyd who threw schoolboy tantrums when things didn't go their way, flciking the Vs at cameras, drinking sessions etc. That didn't exactly help his task. There have been poor performances yes but the blame, for me, doesn't just lie at one mans door.

[Council Juice]

I do agree with you there. It was wrong of Boyd to spit the dummy though I do think Burley could have done something better than rounding on him in the press conference. He made a mistake in Iwelumo and still had a sub remaining at the end and could have at least tried to see face to face what Boyds thoughts were after he cooled off. But Boyd is a grown man and should have shown maturity.

Magregor and Ferguson were nothing other than idiots. No idea what they were playing at with the V's no matter what their reasoning and the SFA, not Burley handled the situation very poorly. Ferguson was spot on in saying that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. I dont think Burley had much choice in going with the SFA to ban them and THEY made him look a very lame duck.

Having the likes of George Peat coming out and saying it's all Iwelumos fault (was Peat ever a pro? even the best miss them.) and that it hasnt been good enough etc on the eve of the game and on the day Smith saying that he doesnt enjoy watching Burley's Scotland. (I must point out that i dont think these interviews were ever given at the time but probably some time before the game and the tabloids were perfectly willing to sabotage the teams efforts i order to sell papers. I think the same is probably true with the Ferguson interview as well)

It just seems that the guy carries no luck at all.

Edited September 11, 2009 by iamthecaptain1

[absent friend]

I think we have to accept that the West Coast press/ure comes into play in all of this with not only their biased reporting but timing the release to cause the most mischief and this has not helped the Burley cause at all.

He will go because of this, despite the antics of the three players mentioned above, undermining him as a manager during and after the events and the 'blazers' looking for a scapegoat.

I feel that he has at least got the players with him and Wednesday was a super performance from our team who played as a team throughout.

Successor?

Wee Strachan was not on the BBC sofa last week, as a pundit, for nothing. 'Remember me' 'I'm free' was there for all to see but made press enemies by his antics at Celtic.

Levein would be daft to hang his jacket on the hook when he is in with the bricks at DU.

Calderwood? Keeping a low press profile is our Jimmy but would suit the West Coast mafia and therefore is my punt for the job.

[Yngwie]

Having the likes of George Peat coming out and saying it's all Iwelumos fault

I don't think he said that at all. He was pointing out the fine line between qualifying and not qualifying and used a missed chance as an example. The Daily Record then applied their spin and made it into a back page story.

[SMEE]

What worries me is....for the last 20 yrs or so...i have watched all these nations come on leaps and bounds football wise, while Scotland stagnates. I think its time to mirror the techniques and systems being deployed in the more sucsessful countries. But i get the feeling, those in charge at The SFA are in denial and are determined to leave things as they are, rather than admit their ways are failing.

As far as Burley goes. I thought we played some decent football under him (at times) and am not sure that spitting our dummies out every time we fail to qualify is the way to go. Maybe a little perseverance and stability is required.

Or.......we accept our place as a tiny nation, with little reason to expect too much.

Edited September 11, 2009 by SMEE

[Kirishima]

Its the SFA. Peat and his cronies are a law unto themselves. And they have done nothing to advance football, nor have their predecesors.

The players werent motivated - thats their fault. Burley picked wrong players - wrong positions, thats his fault.

A clean sweep, with massive investment in facilities and local leagues from 8 yrs old right through to university.

In other countries, high school football has a national competition, and is on TV from the semi-finals on, gets loads of publicity. In Scotland, zilch. We have to get more kids playing by taking it seriously.

This campaign was undone in Macedonia and at home to Norway, and the players are to blame.

[jaggie1994]

After seeing the second half performance against macedonia and the whole game against Holland I really dont think we should be sacking Burley. I know you could bring up all the previous games that we didnt play well but I reckon if and that is a big if we can keep playing like we have in the last one and a half matches we could be a hell of a lot closer to qualifying for Euro 2012 than we were this time. I think that Burley should be given a chance to take us to Poland/Ukraine and if that doesnt work out then get rid of him

Oh and Sack the Board, They are a disgrace to Scottish Football. What the hell was Peat thinking about when he made those comments before 2 of the biggest games in the campaign. What a way to get the confidence flowing. He is a tube

And Smith has been a joke as well. The whole Eduardo thing proved that I think. I know he did dive but why did he have to make such a big deal about it when lets be honest it would have made no difference and if any scotland player takes a tumble we are going to be royally ****** just because he had a winge at UEFA

[dead_ball_specialist]

Burley is a clown. Anyone who thinks the (chuckle) Caldwell brothers are good enough for international football is a muppet. As for selecting Chris Iwelumo ahead of Chris Boyd? Absolute tosh. Get him out. We played well against Holland at home but it was too little too late, GTF Burley.

[Council Juice]

Having the likes of George Peat coming out and saying it's all Iwelumos fault

I don't think he said that at all. He was pointing out the fine line between qualifying and not qualifying and used a missed chance as an example. The Daily Record then applied their spin and made it into a back page story.

But he could have used a little more savvy than single a moment out. David Taylor despite being useless at least was smart with the press. Worked his political socks off and gave little away.

I guess there are many ways you could look at it but one things for sure. We need radical changes in the way youths are brought into the game to have any success in the future and following the Dutch is the way to go.

[DAM]

Having the likes of George Peat coming out and saying it's all Iwelumos fault

I don't think he said that at all. He was pointing out the fine line between qualifying and not qualifying and used a missed chance as an example. The Daily Record then applied their spin and made it into a back page story.

But he could have used a little more savvy than single a moment out. David Taylor despite being useless at least was smart with the press. Worked his political socks off and gave little away.

I guess there are many ways you could look at it but one things for sure. We need radical changes in the way youths are brought into the game to have any success in the future and following the Dutch is the way to go.

Agree the Dutch is the way to go. When you hear people on about Scotland being a small country it's true compared with the Netherlands (16 million) but then again when you compare the Netherlands with Germany (82 million) the Dutch are not doing too badly!

[Scarlet Pimple]

Yes, and the Dutch have great flair in their play which indicates to me that they really enjoy their football.And when was the last time you (ever) herad of a Duitch player giving "v " signs to the public. In short ,they have class and discipline.

Not a bad idea having a senior Dutch coach over to re-vamp the system from the ground up.

Will the SFA and others in Management in Scotland lose face if they do this?

Who cares ? Since doing so will evidence the reality of the situation and shows humility..both of which are lacking at the moment but are absolutely necessary attitudes that are required to even think of starting a rebuilding process.

Indeed it seems to me that it is these small-time attitudes of complacency , denial and puffed up egos that have done Scotland in over these past few years. Whether it is the training methods applied to the youngsters, or lack of ambition accompanied by complacency, the fact is that we have a small-thinking SFA ---which is the root of the problem.

Only a radical change in Scottish Football, i.e. the SPL being upped to at least 16 teams , and a radical change of personnel in the top echelons of power in the SFA will be the least bit effectivein making our small Nation a serious contender in the intertnational arenas around the world and able to compete with the major soccer nations creditably.

Will it happen? I don't think that the debacle has yet reached its potentially lowest point yet and the heads will not come out ofthe sand until this happens. Meantime , don't hold your breath.....

Another long-winded and breathless post from the Scarlet Pimple. :028:

[Alex MacLeod]

As others have said, a radical change is needed in Scottish Football and that should begin at the very top of the 'Association'. Its easy to jump on Burley and probably sack him but in all honesty I dont believe there's anyone who could do better with the current crop of players. We have to take a leaf out of the Dutch book and get our coaching strategies up to standard. Kids should be learning ball skills and tactics. No child under twelve should have to play games on a full size pitch. More 5, 6 and 7 aside games should be encouraged. These are the games that develop skills. Thats the Dutch philosophy and it produces far superior players to ours.

[DornochCaley]

Burley is a clown. Anyone who thinks the (chuckle) Caldwell brothers are good enough for international football is a muppet. As for selecting Chris Iwelumo ahead of Chris Boyd? Absolute tosh. Get him out. We played well against Holland at home but it was too little too late, GTF Burley.

Kris Boyd should never be given the pleasure of wearing a Scotland Jersey again. He walked out on his country so he should stay away.

I disagree on your view on the Brothers. I think at their best, they are brilliant. Gary certainly can be. But he hasnt played well at all this season.

The SFA leaders need to go. They are muppets and dont have a clue what the feck they are on about. I am not Burleys biggest fan but there is no point in replacing him now. We should stick with him for a while longer. If he is to be replaced, i think Strachan is the best we can get though i do not like him to much either.

[WYNESS101]

Burley is a clown. Anyone who thinks the (chuckle) Caldwell brothers are good enough for international football is a muppet. As for selecting Chris Iwelumo ahead of Chris Boyd? Absolute tosh. Get him out. We played well against Holland at home but it was too little too late, GTF Burley.

Kris Boyd should never be given the pleasure of wearing a Scotland Jersey again. He walked out on his country so he should stay away.

I disagree on your view on the Brothers. I think at their best, they are brilliant. Gary certainly can be. But he hasnt played well at all this season.

The SFA leaders need to go. They are muppets and dont have a clue what the feck they are on about. I am not Burleys biggest fan but there is no point in replacing him now. We should stick with him for a while longer. If he is to be replaced, i think Strachan is the best we can get though i do not like him to much either.

You need Boyd up front cause he can always get the ball in the back of the net when we need it most.

Caldwell brothers Think you need to open your eyes mate DOESNT WORK!

[DornochCaley]

Burley is a clown. Anyone who thinks the (chuckle) Caldwell brothers are good enough for international football is a muppet. As for selecting Chris Iwelumo ahead of Chris Boyd? Absolute tosh. Get him out. We played well against Holland at home but it was too little too late, GTF Burley.

Kris Boyd should never be given the pleasure of wearing a Scotland Jersey again. He walked out on his country so he should stay away.

I disagree on your view on the Brothers. I think at their best, they are brilliant. Gary certainly can be. But he hasnt played well at all this season.

The SFA leaders need to go. They are muppets and dont have a clue what the feck they are on about. I am not Burleys biggest fan but there is no point in replacing him now. We should stick with him for a while longer. If he is to be replaced, i think Strachan is the best we can get though i do not like him to much either.

You need Boyd up front cause he can always get the ball in the back of the net when we need it most.

Caldwell brothers Think you need to open your eyes mate DOESNT WORK!

Sorry, i ment Individualy they are brilliant.

And Nah, i dont rate Boyd tbh. He makes everyone around him do the work so he can just clean up the leftovers. You cant do that in international football. Everyone needs to work. Not to mention most his Scotland goals have game from penalties, not open play.

[Council Juice]

Even individually the caldwell brothers are never brilliant. Gary is a decent ball playing centre half and steven can put himself about but both together or otherwise are distinctly average.

McManus is like a better Steven Caldwell in style.

Berra has much more potential.

David Weir should always be considered ahead of one of them. His reading of the game is immense. Made a slip v dutch but i think even had he missed the header the dutch boy was getting to it 1st. And yes he got caught out but it was a long punt. Very un dutch like. Would suprise most.

Its a shame Webster had the problems at Hearts and then a catelogue of injuries at Rangers as he could have been great for Scotland.

If Kris Boyd was to come back into the fold and start banging in important goals and showing the work ethic he has since the fall out (believe me it's improved dramatically.) then I'd be fine with it. Everyone is entitled to a 2nd chance. Especially one who has 7/8 goal in 13 appearances. Of which 1 i can remember was a penalty. Maybe 2. But If I was a Gers fan I'd love him taking my penalties.

[RiG]

I disagree on your view on the Brothers. I think at their best, they are brilliant. Gary certainly can be. But he hasnt played well at all this season.

Gary Caldwell is anything but brilliant. Average centre back at best.

[DornochCaley]

I disagree on your view on the Brothers. I think at their best, they are brilliant. Gary certainly can be. But he hasnt played well at all this season.

Gary Caldwell is anything but brilliant. Average centre back at best.

hmmmm.....well all the players in scotland must be shockingly bad then considering an average centre back won 2 player of the year awards last season.

[+DoofersDad]

The real problem for Scotland is the lack of quality players. Is there anyone in the current Scotland team who would get into team GB? I think not.

Given the pretty average players at his disposal, Burley has done a not bad job. The excellent perfomances in the last 2 games suggest he is capable of getting the best out of mediocrity. The one class act in Scotland is Boyd as his scoring record for Rangers proves. I am sure if he had been playing, Scotland would have qualified for South Africa. Of course, Burley must take some of the blame for that and maybe his future will be decided on his failure to control his best players.

But the real problem for Scotland is the lack of top quality young players coming through. Extend the school day by 2 hours and devote it to football is my answer. Training for an hour in the morning and a game in the afternoon. It's about time the education system got its priorities right.

[Yngwie]

I think its quite likely that a different manager would have got us another couple of points and a play off.

Saw a comparison of recent manager results in today's paper that concluded that Burley is statistically worse than Vogts. And I think we have better players available now than Vogts had at his disposal.