ICT's Performance This Season

[Laurence]

The problem is if we don't pull our socks up it doesn't matter if it is a two team SPL. Which it virtually is, or a 20 team SPL.

We will always be struggling.

The games I have seen this season, I think we are pathetic. My daughter came with me on Boxing day. Her reaction was " a waste of twenty quid" .

As she is a student the waste of £20 hurt.

We can' retain the ball, we can't pass to feet. We can't take corners, We can't take throw ins for love nor money. Our free kick taking is as bad as it gets.

Our midfield is none existent, so we have to boot the ball over their heads. In short in footballing terms it is primitive crap.

What are the coaches doing all week in training, I see better throw in takers in the park on Sunday mornings.

I was sent an email by this forum, to say , why have you not visited us, now you know why.

The supporters, are the worst I have ever seen. They are the quietest I have ever seen, unless they are berating the referee or telling the opposition manager to get back in his box, they seem incapable of understanding what is going on. Every time the ref blows in favour of the opps. They shout cheat or similar at the ref.

The team in defence stand off all the time ( closing down, seems anathema to them ) The ops attack can take pop shots all game long, with no challenge.

No wonder the team like it better away from home.

Of course I am new to the area, I gave ITC a chance, I now wonder why?

So Mr Doncaster do what you want, but from where I am standing you are peeing up brew as they say in my native Lancashire.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Laurence

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

So where does the "we" come from ? And it is ICT not ITC Lawrence.

Were you at Tannadice ? Were you at Ibrox ? Were you at Parkhead ? Were you at Rugby Park ?

No - we were.

What fecker asked you to visit ? Must have been a whining, disloyal sweetie rustler - go and watch the Old firm if ya want to glory hunt in Scotland.

[CaleyD]

The problem is if we don't pull our socks up it doesn't matter if it is a two team SPL. Which it virtually is, or a 20 team SPL.

We will always be struggling.

The games I have seen this season, I think we are pathetic. My daughter came with me on Boxing day. Her reaction was " a waste of twenty quid" .

As she is a student the waste of ?20 hurt.

We can' retain the ball, we can't pass to feet. We can't take corners, We can't take throw ins for love nor money. Our free kick taking is as bad as it gets.

Our midfield is none existent, so we have to boot the ball over their heads. In short in footballing terms it is primitive crap.

What are the coaches doing all week in training, I see better throw in takers in the park on Sunday mornings.

I was sent an email by this forum, to say , why have you not visited us, now you know why.

The supporters, are the worst I have ever seen. They are the quietest I have ever seen, unless they are berating the referee or telling the opposition manager to get back in his box, they seem incapable of understanding what is going on. Every time the ref blows in favour of the opps. They shout cheat or similar at the ref.

The team in defence stand off all the time ( closing down, seems anathema to them ) The ops attack can take pop shots all game long.

No wonder the team like it better away from home.

Of course I am new to the area, I gave ITC a chance, I now wonder why?

So Mr Doncaster do what you want, but from wear I am standing you are peeing up brew as they say in my native Lancashire.

Think you make a valid point/case.....but, the fans can't (directly) improve the product and it's the SPL who are strangling the atmosphere with things like all-seater stadia and no standing rules.

What's more. the product isn't going to get any better by reducing competitiveness and introducing measures which will make it tougher for clubs to nurture young talent and generate a more entertaining product. Smaller league size will only lead to even more turgid football as desperation to avoid relegation intensifies.

It's things like the above which seem to have been totally overlooked/ignored in this whole Scottish Football Reform thing. You can make all the changes in the world to ensure clubs are more financially stable, but if you kill the product in the progress then you lose customers and it becomes pointless endeavour.

No reason why football can't be made more enjoyable, thus giving the fans something to cheer about, and also introduce measures which deliver financial "breaks" for clubs.

[Laurence]

So where does the "we" come from ? And it is ICT not ITC Lawrence.

Were you at Tannadice ? Were you at Ibrox ? Were you at Parkhead ? Were you at Rugby Park ?

No - we were. ( where )

So what? my points are pertinent and you don't answer them. No need to swear at me, it does you no credit, keep your pub talk for the pub,

What fecker asked you to visit ? Must have been a whining, disloyal sweetie rustler - go and watch the Old firm if ya want to glory hunt in Scotland.

Look I can only tell you my perception of the team I put my faith in.

Pick me up on grammar, on spelling mistakes huff and puff, My reception is based on many years of watching professional football.

Your reaction to my post only shows either you don't understand it, or you don't want to understand it. You quote exceptional performances away from home. Good performances I am sure. But a team is judged on what it dishes up for it's home fans.

I bought my season ticket , and other contributions, but I don't think I will next season

[TopSix]

It's a catch 22 situation. The club works on a very small budget and the manger works within those financial constraints unfortunately. Less fans equates to less financial clout. My ST this year works out at ?15 a match which is pretty good say compared to EPL prices - I looked at going to watch Man City v Arsenal and it was going to be ?50 a ticket! I take your point about the atmosphere Laurence - I think the club should do away with reserving seats in section G and let fans who want to sing and get behind the team congregate there. There's no easy answers but I think the club is going in the right direction at the moment. The more I think about this 10 team set up the more I am against it. It's BORING going to the same grounds - 10 teams would make it worse.

[Laurence]

The problem is if we don't pull our socks up it doesn't matter if it is a two team SPL. Which it virtually is, or a 20 team SPL.

We will always be struggling.

The games I have seen this season, I think we are pathetic. My daughter came with me on Boxing day. Her reaction was " a waste of twenty quid" .

As she is a student the waste of ?20 hurt.

We can' retain the ball, we can't pass to feet. We can't take corners, We can't take throw ins for love nor money. Our free kick taking is as bad as it gets.

Our midfield is none existent, so we have to boot the ball over their heads. In short in footballing terms it is primitive crap.

What are the coaches doing all week in training, I see better throw in takers in the park on Sunday mornings.

I was sent an email by this forum, to say , why have you not visited us, now you know why.

The supporters, are the worst I have ever seen. They are the quietest I have ever seen, unless they are berating the referee or telling the opposition manager to get back in his box, they seem incapable of understanding what is going on. Every time the ref blows in favour of the opps. They shout cheat or similar at the ref.

The team in defence stand off all the time ( closing down, seems anathema to them ) The ops attack can take pop shots all game long.

No wonder the team like it better away from home.

Of course I am new to the area, I gave ITC a chance, I now wonder why?

So Mr Doncaster do what you want, but from wear I am standing you are peeing up brew as they say in my native Lancashire.

Think you make a valid point/case.....but, the fans can't (directly) improve the product and it's the SPL who are strangling the atmosphere with things like all-seater stadia and no standing rules.

What's more. the product isn't going to get any better by reducing competitiveness and introducing measures which will make it tougher for clubs to nurture young talent and generate a more entertaining product. Smaller league size will only lead to even more turgid football as desperation to avoid relegation intensifies.

It's things like the above which seem to have been totally overlooked/ignored in this whole Scottish Football Reform thing. You can make all the changes in the world to ensure clubs are more financially stable, but if you kill the product in the progress then you lose customers and it becomes pointless endeavour.

No reason why football can't be made more enjoyable, thus giving the fans something to cheer about, and also introduce measures which deliver financial "breaks" for clubs.

A good reply I only gave you my perception, I wish the team all the best. But they have a lot of work to be done, I am afraid.

Inverness is a growing city, Maybe it will continue to grow and just maybe as other area's in Scotland decline , Inverness will make a bigger impact in the life of Scotland.

I took no pleasure in what I said. I maybe look at things from a new-comers point of view. But if you can't sell the product to newcomers, what is the point?

I have spent my life watching struggling teams, from Bury to Blackburn to Wimbledon to Lewes. But all those teams had one thing in common, "passion", which seems lacking in the matches I have seen this season. ( With the exception of the Rangers game ) , I don't see all the games as I am getting quite old now, but the ones I have seen, will not live long in the memory.

My other perception is Terry Butcher, after the Dundee United match , and the 4 1 victory , he waxed lyrical. I knew it was a mistake, the next match, Inverness lost to Hamilton. He should take a leaf out of Fergies book, when Aberdeen beat beat Rangers in a Scottish cup final, he criticised the teams performance.

Sometimes a manager has to play mind games, our man is too busy shaking hands, and being a nice guy.

[Renegade]

So where does the "we" come from ? And it is ICT not ITC Lawrence.

Were you at Tannadice ? Were you at Ibrox ? Were you at Parkhead ? Were you at Rugby Park ?

No - we were. ( where )

Eh...Tannadice, Ibrox, Parkhead and Rugby Park perhaps?

Edited February 28, 2011 by Renegade

[TopSix]

Sometimes a manager has to play mind games, our man is too busy shaking hands, and being a nice guy.

I think he's the best manager we've had. Not sure what you'd have made of Steve Paterson!

[+DoofersDad]

Get real, Laurence. What do you expect? How many teams are there in England based in a town the size of Inverness who have a team playing at the level ICT are? Very, very few. The fact is that ICT are a team who are punching above their weight at the moment. They did not get where they are without playing some pretty good football. Enjoy the fact that ICT are an SPL side and enjoy it when the football is good - just don't expect it every week.

Oh, and why don't you change your avatar to Fergie if you're going to slag off the manager

[dougal]

So where does the "we" come from ? And it is ICT not ITC Lawrence.

Were you at Tannadice ? Were you at Ibrox ? Were you at Parkhead ? Were you at Rugby Park ?

No - we were.

What fecker asked you to visit ? Must have been a whining, disloyal sweetie rustler - go and watch the Old firm if ya want to glory hunt in Scotland.

Irony overload, coming from the one covered from head to toe in Cellic Tatoos

dougal

[Laurence]

Get real, Laurence. What do you expect? How many teams are there in England based in a town the size of Inverness who have a team playing at the level ICT are? Very, very few. The fact is that ICT are a team who are punching above their weight at the moment. They did not get where they are without playing some pretty good football. Enjoy the fact that ICT are an SPL side and enjoy it when the football is good - just don't expect it every week.

What weight do you need ? If that is the case the size of the SPL is irrelevant (or Premier league as Wimbledon found out, Hull Found out, Wigan are finding out, and soon Blackpool) all punching above their weight - maybe Stoke are the exception, playing big long balls -

Oh, and why don't you change your avatar to Fergie if you're going to slag off the manager

*** a stupid question ***

Oh dear - How do you answer this sort of attack?

I just gave you my view of things as they are. How many teams in non league football in Sctland , do not take better throw ins than Inverness

The standard of coaching is terrible from where I sit . The team is playing primitive crap. The big boot over the top, for the counter, is primitive when you do it all the time. It is all right supporting a team you have followed all your life. I have no complaint with that. I came to live here in my late 60s. I just dont like what I see.

The point I make is, and you wont like it. Is it dosn't matter how big the top division in Scotland is. Inverness have a lot of work to do, to justify being in it.

In fairness to Inverness there a 4 or 5 other teams in this division also needing to improve, if this league is to get any where near the standard of the championship or even league one south of the border . Take Carlisle for instanse a much better side than most in the SPL.

People have talked about the under 21 Scottish side. The same side who lost to Iceland if my memory serves me right. Name me one team in Iceland, Inverness wouldn't fancy their chances to beat.

?

Anyway I have had my say, rightly or wrongly. I have answered the call of the 90 day email reminder to take part. I will be back in another 90 days.

bye.

Edited February 28, 2011 by Laurence

[+DoofersDad]

I think Laurence has had a bad day. There is some truth in what he says although it is rather overstated. He's just being unrealistic in his expectations. Even Barcelona have bad days.

[dougal]

I think Laurence has had a bad day. There is some truth in what he says although it is rather overstated. He's just being unrealistic in his expectations. Even Barcelona have bad days.

So I take it you are happy with ICT's home performances this season then?

dougal

[Renegade]

We can' retain the ball, we can't pass to feet. We can't take corners, We can't take throw ins for love nor money. Our free kick taking is as bad as it gets.

Our midfield is none existent, so we have to boot the ball over their heads. In short in footballing terms it is primitive crap.

What are the coaches doing all week in training, I see better throw in takers in the park on Sunday mornings.

That's an interesting point actually, you might have something there. Training seems to have been something Butcher's struggled with as a manager. At Brentford the players thought his training in the week was garbage, due to the fact that he would go on for hours about how to trap the ball and would lead to him getting very frustrated by the fact that the players "couldn't perform to the same level e could when he was a player". Sydney FC was essentially the same thing. In fact, it came out after Butcher was sacked that when he was in charge, the players would go to training in the morning and then meet up again in secret that afternoon to do it all again, just because of their belief that the standard of training done by Butcher was so bad.

This could also partly be true for ICT. How long before an opposition cottons on to just how bad the throw-ins are these days? If I was an opposition manager, I would be punting long balls down towards the corner flags (like they do in rugby) and then attempt to win the ball from there, just due to the fact that ICT constantly seem to lose possession from them.

[CaleyD]

We've never been any good at throw-ins, it was a problem that existed years before Butcher arrived.

[Scotty]

We also played 'hoof ball' long before Butcher arrived too ....

Many of us have believed for years that ICT have always been a better team when we play the ball on the deck and I stand by that remark. I said it when we were in D3, D2, D1 and the SPL and I would say it now !

We have always seemed to have some decent ball players and it made for entertaining football when we tried to do just that - play football !!! but any time our players seem under pressure, and I would say its probably a trait in other teams too, we revert to route 1 hoofball and thats never pretty to watch ....

In all our existence perhaps only Bobby Mann made 'hoofball' a viable tactic given that he could accurately ping a ball 50 yards to the head or feet of his chosen player. the rest of the time it was hit and hope or 'get that ball the **** out of here'. In contrast, dont we all remember fondly those games where Barry Wilson or Barry Robson (and now Jonny Hayes) performed some wing wizardry, or where the likes of Charlie Christie bossed the midfield with skill and talent ........

[+Wanderer]

In all our existence perhaps only Bobby Mann made 'hoofball' a viable tactic given that he could accurately ping a ball 50 yards to the head or feet of his chosen player.

I remember STANDING at one of our pre-SPL matches and watching Bobby collect the ball deep in his own half. Even before he'd shaped to do so I remember saying out loud "Oh yeah, here it comes, the long punt to nowhere" (or similar). 5 seconds later Wyness netted.

Have tried to bite my tongue on these matters since.

When I think of Tannadice and Ibrox matches this season and compare them to Easter Road on Saturday the sole reason for the demise in playing style is Johnny Hayes lack of fitness.

Has ICT ever before had such a lop-sided squad? When Wyness, Mann, Wilson or Robson were absent for a few games did we go off the boil tactically as much? Genuine question, I don't think we really did.

[CaleyD]

I think it's easy to look back on our pre-SPL days with more than a hint of the old rose tinted glasses. Partly because it was pretty much a period of "the rise and rise" of ICT and our almost consistent progress makes it easy to forget the poor spells and bad games.

Things are a lot different now, we're no longer playing for promotion or titles and it's very much a case of playing to avoid relegation.....along with half the other teams in the league. It's easy to be of the opinion that once safety is secured then we should just switch to a more "entertaining" style of play with a "nothing to lose" attitude, but with the split also coming in to contention and pressure on from the fans to make the top 6 then going all out "entertaining" doesn't really become an option until after the split....and even then only if your top half or safe.

I think it's a sad reflection on the state of the game that this is the case, and the only thing that will change it is a larger top league.....but as we all know, that's not going to happen any time soon.

[Alex MacLeod]

One thing not being mentioned by anyone here is the opposition. The OP bases his judgement on Boxing day match against St Mirren. A team who stifle play, a team who play the game on the very edge of the rules. Many teams go out with a game plan only to have it destroyed by the way the opposition play. It costs me in excess of a hundred quid each time I go to watch ICT and, regardless of having seen some bad games, regardless of getting beat at times, I have absolutely no regrets about the spend, nor the time spent. We win games, we lose games, we play brilliant, we play crap, we have big crowds, we have little crowds, we find star quality, we find pub team quality. Guess what?? We are no different to any other team in the league.

wanderer I don't see us as having a lop-sided squad. Had every player been available I think we'd have a very balanced squad. Trouble is that for too long this season we've suffered with injury and ilness and had to start too many games with players not suited to the role being asked of them. having said that we are still in sixth and we have a good chance of remaining there.

[The Mantis]

I'm speaking as somebody who was muttering on the way out of Easter Road (for the first time ever) about not coming back. However:

The only point where I can agree with Laurence is the punting. I think TB sometimes gives opponents too much respect and doesn't allow ICT to play football. This is backed up anecdotally by players' dads etc when you meet them at the games.

As for the rest, Laurence I think you have posted some bizarre stuff since you came to live amongst us. Your attitude seems to be that you are doing us a favour. You admit that you had never seen a Scottish match in your life so your criticisms of ICT are strange as you cannot compare it with anything else in Scotland. As said before ICT is really a div 1 club and punches above its weight.

Let me admit, as someone in my mid fifties, that Scottish football is going down the swanny. Older people always say this, my teachers used to say it back in the seventies, but it's true. It's true because of globalisation. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In the seventies a Scottish club could give an English club a decent game and they always sent their strongest squads up to play us. Same goes for the national team. We actually had a winning record against England in internationals till quite recently.

When I was at school people who came in with Old Firm scarves on got stick. Then in the 80s you got the odd Liverpool scarf. Now you ask people who they support and they say Barca or ManU.

Only today I was asked in the classroom 'who do you think will win tonight?' I thought they meant ICT but they meant Chelsea v ManU.

In the long run globalisation is death on a stick for wee nations like ours. At least in England the wealth trickles down. In Scotland it used to trickle down from the Old Filth. In 1968 Rangers paid Hibs a record £100 000 for Colin Stein. Now they buy foreigners.

Carlisle United have far greater resources than most SPL clubs. Was it Crawley who were paying £150 000 for a player recently? ICT's record signing is about £65 000 and the players get about £1k per week. Fleetwood Town are now playing Keigan Parker and they're only in the Conference.

If you think we're bad, try watching that lot over the bridge.

Thank Christ there's more to living in Scotland than just football, which presumably, Laurence, is why you relocated to Boat of Garten.

Edited March 1, 2011 by TheMantis

[TopSix]

I enjoyed that Mantis - well said. Couldn't sum it up any better.

[Snow]

Excellent post, Mantis. I'm all out of green dots otherwise you'd have had one.

[alternative maryhill]

I'm speaking as somebody who was muttering on the way out of Easter Road (for the first time ever) about not coming back. However:

The only point where I can agree with Laurence is the punting. I think TB sometimes gives opponents too much respect and doesn't allow ICT to play football. This is backed up anecdotally by players' dads etc when you meet them at the games.As for the rest, Laurence I think you have posted some bizarre stuff since you came to live amongst us. Your attitude seems to be that you are doing us a favour. You admit that you had never seen a Scottish match in your life so your criticisms of ICT are strange as you cannot compare it with anything else in Scotland. As said before ICT is really a div 1 club and punches above its weight.

Let me admit, as someone in my mid fifties, that Scottish football is going down the swanny. Older people always say this, my teachers used to say it back in the seventies, but it's true. It's true because of globalisation. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In the seventies a Scottish club could give an English club a decent game and they always sent their strongest squads up to play us. Same goes for the national team. We actually had a winning record against England in internationals till quite recently.

When I was at school people who came in with Old Firm scarves on got stick. Then in the 80s you got the odd Liverpool scarf. Now you ask people who they support and they say Barca or ManU.

Only today I was asked in the classroom 'who do you think will win tonight?' I thought they meant ICT but they meant Chelsea v ManU.

In the long run globalisation is death on a stick for wee nations like ours. At least in England the wealth trickles down. In Scotland it used to trickle down from the Old Filth. In 1968 Rangers paid Hibs a record £100 000 for Colin Stein. Now they buy foreigners.

Carlisle United have far greater resources than most SPL clubs. Was it Crawley who were paying £150 000 for a player recently? ICT's record signing is about £65 000 and the players get about £1k per week. Fleetwood Town are now playing Keigan Parker and they're only in the Conference.

If you think we're bad, try watching that lot over the bridge.

Thank Christ there's more to living in Scotland than just football, which presumably, Laurence, is why you relocated to Boat of Garten.

Tremendous post.

I also agree about the haste with which we refer to the long ball, and CaleyD made a similar point. During our best season in the SPL, Charlie Christie really tried to play that way and it paid off quite well. That said, we had midfielders a little better equipped to play that way: Ian Black's ability to put his foot on the ball and open up play is often overlooked because of his reputation as a 'hard man'. We badly need a creative midfielder who can slow the game down and bring the wide men and attackers into play effectively. Briefly I thought Vigurs might fulfil that role but Butcher obviously didn't fancy him; Nick Ross might still grow into it but it will rely on him being given the chance in the right position and being able to take it. Cox and Duff together aren't the answer, but for this season, if they keep us clear of relegation, it will do fine.

As for good value, the 4-0 against United, 2-2 against Celtic and 1-1 draws against Rangers alone will leave me with some pretty good memories of what is, don't forget, our first season back after relegation.

Edited March 1, 2011 by alternative maryhill

[tm4tj]

We are at a low ebb right now.

Back to the Highland League stuff.

[Pele_Is_God]

We were feckin abysmal on Saturday, hence why I left with 10 minutes to go and that's the first time i've done that. I can see where Lawrence is coming from in a way but I think he just posts to get a reaction.