Richie Foran

[Joonya]

The 'Butcher OUT' post got me a little agitated, simply because out problems do not lie with him alone. Nor should they.

Yes we can say we've still got a list of injured/not fully fit players, and no that excuse wont wash for much longer, if at all. But why should our shoddy performance against St Johnstone (and even our current league position) merit HIM to be touted for the chop?

Simple answer - He shouldn't be!

I've only managed 4 games this season, and not once have I seen Richie Foran give 100% in his performances. He's meant to be the club captain and has done nothing but criticize his fellow professionals. And judging by the reactions of some others around me yesterday, I'm not the only one to think this.

Foran has been less passionate in his overall game than he was at this stage last season. He's slow off the ground for headers he'd normally be expected to win, and has been at least a yard off the pace most of the season.

His criticism's of other players performances cannot therefore be justified if he himself is worthy of even more criticism. Surely he cannot be the first name on the team sheet, just because he is club captain?

What Foran needs is to be dropped, and dropped now. Shane Sutherland shows alot of passion and creativity whenever he plays, and even Andrew Shinnie is showing signs of linking well with Tade. With McKay pushing for more game time, Hayes close to a return and others looking to start, I really hope Butcher starts to utilise these men in an effort to bring some desire and fight of which has been lacking in Foran.

[lukemackay]

im in two minds about foran

he has set up a few goals this season but hasnt scored enough himself tade has fed off him but he hasnt fed off tade

i dont think he is past it he is still a physical presence and good to have around but i do think he is being over-utilised by butcher

i think shane should be getting more starts and foran less shane is similar in he is good in the air and a presence but he also has pace andi i think would tend to score when he starts

in the last season and a bit shane has made 38 appearences and 29 of them were off the bench and he has score 2 pretty superb goals

im not sure whether shane and foran up front together from the start would work but at clach in pre season it did. yes its clach but shane seemed to feed off of foran in the half they played together.

Edited October 16, 2011 by lukemackay

[Pele_Is_God]

Zzzzzzzzz wasting your breath... his face fits so he will never be dropped! Infact I hear a contract extension is on the way.

[marks]

So if I am understanding you correctly Gringo, it is okay to slate the captain on this website but not the manager who picks him and gave him the captaincy? The captain is to blame for the team's poor results, not the management team who decimated the squad and replaced them with short contract jobbers and loanies who see ICT as nothing more than a shop window for their names to be seen by "bigger" clubs?

Edited October 17, 2011 by marks

[Yngwie]

Foran looks to me like a player who is carrying an injury of some sort, he's certainly not quite right at the moment.

But even when he is playing poorly himself, in his role as captain he is still entitled, if not required, to shout at others where appropriate.

[Sorted]

The 'Butcher OUT' post got me a little agitated, simply because out problems do not lie with him alone. Nor should they.

Yes we can say we've still got a list of injured/not fully fit players, and no that excuse wont wash for much longer, if at all. But why should our shoddy performance against St Johnstone (and even our current league position) merit HIM to be touted for the chop?

Simple answer - He shouldn't be!

I've only managed 4 games this season, and not once have I seen Richie Foran give 100% in his performances. He's meant to be the club captain and has done nothing but criticize his fellow professionals. And judging by the reactions of some others around me yesterday, I'm not the only one to think this.

Foran has been less passionate in his overall game than he was at this stage last season. He's slow off the ground for headers he'd normally be expected to win, and has been at least a yard off the pace most of the season.

His criticism's of other players performances cannot therefore be justified if he himself is worthy of even more criticism. Surely he cannot be the first name on the team sheet, just because he is club captain?

What Foran needs is to be dropped, and dropped now. Shane Sutherland shows alot of passion and creativity whenever he plays, and even Andrew Shinnie is showing signs of linking well with Tade. With McKay pushing for more game time, Hayes close to a return and others looking to start, I really hope Butcher starts to utilise these men in an effort to bring some desire and fight of which has been lacking in Foran.

Struggling with this one Gringo.

TB is Foran's number one fan. He brought him to the club. He retained him at the club (highest paid player if rumours are correct) and he made him captain.

Surely if the responsibility for the recent demise sits with Foran the ultimately TB is responsible?

[Alex MacLeod]

Foran looks to me like a player who is carrying an injury of some sort, he's certainly not quite right at the moment.

But even when he is playing poorly himself, in his role as captain he is still entitled, if not required, to shout at others where appropriate.

I think your right with the injury theory. I think he's had a problem for most of the season and should be rested till its sorted. However, in his role as captain, although he is entitled to shout at other players where appropriate, he is also supposed to be the motivator and organizer. None of that was evident on saturday. Sometimes I feel that Richie and the management team are trying to achieve results with tactics that, in any other workplace, are bordering on bullying and criticising rather that coaxing, encouraging and motivating.

[tm4tj]

There was an article in the Highland News last week and he said he has been carrying an injury.

>>The Inverness CT captain is feeling fit after a full week's rest helped him shake off foot and shoulder injuries he's been carrying for the past month or so.<<

here is the link to the article if it opens

Foran article

He does appear to be struggling at times and I put it down to this, but he is an important player for us.

[Alex MacLeod]

Hasn't he also been carrying an abdominal injury for a few months now? I'm sure I remember him having injections to help through the games.

[Bombabim]

last season the captain arm band sat well on foran. he was giving as much as he could in all the games, and playing further back i think he could play more of a part in the system we played. we were playing well (some of the time) and in no real danger of relegation, a captain's job was maybe easier in that situation. he was playing well in the system and his all action style led by example. he yelled a lot at the younger players. some days you felt sorry for them being on the receiving end, other games less so as sometimes its what they needed. What i would say is that he yelled at more than he encouraged. this is his style and last season it worked and in some ways could be diluted by the calming presence of munro in the dressing room.

This year the system has changed (more through necessity) and foran isn't playing in the same role as last year and the personel around him are not familiar. we have no real continuous system. not foran's fault. however this is when you need your captain to be at his best, encouraging, organising and playing well. on the evidence of what i've seen this season he is doing none of these. his touch and heading were poor on saturday. when the ball didn't come where he wanted it he pulled up huffed a little and turned round and yelled at someone. last season he would have chased it down, crunched a defender and led by example. i saw no evidence of him reading the game and trying to change it. he just passed through it. so when i saw tade going off and not foran i couldn't believe it. no one is above the team not even the captain. tade runs and gives his all. yes his touch lets him down but he is more likely to create a chance than foran in my opinion.

if he does have an injury lets not risk another played with a lengthy spell out and get him rest, sutherland should be allowed to show what he can do. if he doesn't he needs to sort his head and think what a captain is supposed to do. munro wasn't the best captain as he was quieter and led more by example. foran last season had a little bit of both, yelled, encouraged and led by example. this season these have faded to just yelling i'm afraid. not what a team in our situation need.

[marks]

I am correct then in thinking that our manager finds that playing an under performing, unfit, player is more favourable than playing a younger, fitter player even though the players available were either his signings or recently re-signed by him? The mind boggles.

[Stevie]

F.T.A.O. Marks.

Couldn't agree more with both your posts. Good points.

[marks]

Stevie, thanks for the supportive words.

I'd like to set out my stall though. I am not in the Butcher out camp, I am however very much against the timing of Butcher and Malpas being given new contracts when the club are in the state they are at the moment. I am also a bit perplexed at the level of support they are recieving without people looking at the bigger picture, the squad are in perhaps the worst state since our division two or three days, short term contracts, loans etc. it seems there is no vision for the future, with the exception of the two people who have gotten rid of the core of our squad. If TB and MM do not move to improve things by 31st of January I may very well be creeping into the "out" camp.

[AJS]

The man is running on empty and has been for months. There is no doubt that the captaincy is taking a strain on him but courtesy of Munro and Duncan being ousted that leaves Foran, Rosscoe and in some capacity Hogg as the only real experienced outfield players floating about the squad that can nurture these youngsters on the pitch. I agree that maybe a rest is in order for him but not till we have more players back from injury....and i would give McKay the nod. Im fed of us persisting with 2 battering rams up front.

He balls at the players cause he wants results, any captain would, his approach may not be right but i suppose its all he has to be familiar with. I agree he shouldnt be captain but it is too difficult to judge who should replace him, especially in such an inexperienced squad. I said it on Saturday and i will say it again, we need some experienced heads through the door in January.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Foran is being played out of position - he is also evidently carrying an injury and isnt fully fit - the captaincy, his lack of form and frustration and the sometime ineptness and lack of effort by some of his peers - are all having an effect. Tade must also be a nightmare to play with.

But at the end of the day TB is selecting him and playing him through an injury. Shall we start threads on Proctor, Tansey, Davis etc. ??

[lukemackay]

i say give foran a rest and hand over the captancy to esson for 2-3 weeks we seen when foran came off against aberdeen esson got all the lads together in the second half and we played some brilliant football ok didnt get a result but improved i dont see any harm in it foran will do well for us this season but not while injured.

[PaderbornCaley]

i say give foran a rest and hand over the captancy to esson for 2-3 weeks we seen when foran came off against aberdeen esson got all the lads together in the second half and we played some brilliant football ok didnt get a result but improved i dont see any harm in it foran will do well for us this season but not while injured.

I would agree with you, but I always find it odd having a goalkeeper as a captain, in terms of motivating the forwards and midfielders. The problem is, there isn't really any outfield players I would think of as candidates. Foran hasn't been motivating this season. In fact, his constant growling at the players may have an adverse effect. However, he has proved in the past that he is a good captain, so Butcher needs to help him find his form and confidence... quickly!

[robbylad]

Rest foran, hand armband to tokely.

No one can question his commitment.

[Scarlet Pimple]

TOKELY COULD BE THE ANSWER.

There is an old saying that 'you get more with honey than with vinegar". I don't wholly agree withn that because some horses are just lazy and need a wee push to get up there with the frontrunners in the pack.

But if Foran is not throwing out some praise and/or encouragement then he is surely making a big mistake in by-passing the opportunity to show the players that he isnot only a fair Captain but a wise one.

And he must motivate or die on the vine. That is leadership.

[Joonya]

Foran played a poor game (not for the first time this season) although to be fair he set up the goal. But he's not the only one under performing, not by a long shot and that includes the management teams as they have brought these players in. I felt Foran was only clapping at the end and thanking the fans for sticking with the team, at least that's what I saw. People would be moaning if he just walked straight off saying that 'he isn't showing the loyals fans any gratitude' so he's damned either way.

Foran could have had 2 or three goals himself today if he put in a least half the effort that we have seen him produce. He was a liability from the start (not for the first time this season). He was over critical on more than one occasion (not for the first time this season) and he himself was probably the worst player on the park (and not for the first time this season).

For him to clap the fans at the end and try to get us all behind the team really p***** me off, because for a full 90 minutes he did nothing but stroll around the pitch and not once try and gee up the lads. There was no praise, no passion, no desire, no encouragement. Just lots of critisism to other players, even if it was he who played the initial bad pass in the first place.

We all know how close Butcher and Foran are, and for that reason I will slag off Butcher. But Foran is the club captain and should show the desire and passion in every single game, not just at the end when the fans are on his back!!!

[+jagster]

Hey GJ you seem to have a beef about RF at the moment, I don't believe for a moment he is the worst player in the team and I don't believe you can fault his commitment to ICT. from people who have spoken to him he is immensely proud to be ICt captain but like Grant before him it seems his performances have dipped with the captaincy and maybe it's time to give him a wee break and let him play like we know he can. I always remember when he came on against Antwerp won the penalty, scored the penalty and played well, He is well capable of better things than at the moment, Piling the pressure and blaming individuals is not going to help anyone. Let's get behind the team and hopefully in the long run things will work out.

In ICT we believe

[Joonya]

My 'Beef' with richie foran is that he is meant to be club captain and lead by example.

He has been poor all season and fails to admit to himself or others that this is the case.

He'd much rather try and win the fans over with comments in the local press than do his talking on the pitch.

What, quite frankly, p*****s me off most is that he has done nothing to suggest he is worthy of a place in the team and continues to slag off others who may make minor mistakes. Today he even had a go at A.Shinnie for failing to get on the end of a poor pass from himself. He gave a mouthful to cox after his mis-hit volley under pressure. After the penalty was scored we went straight up to Proctor and gave him a ticking off. Those were just a couple of examples and to me, that is not a captain. What was done was done and the captain should be there to encourage and pick everyone up. There wasn't even a pat on the back of Ryan Esson after a few outstanding saves.

Butcher is worthy of stick because he is the man at the top and he picks the team, but if even the club captain fails to turn up for 90 minutes, what hope have the rest of the team got, particularly when they have to work along side someone who constantly criticises.

[RiG]

Out of interest do we know it was abuse he was giving other players or was he giving them encouragement?

[+Fraz]

Foran played a poor game (not for the first time this season) although to be fair he set up the goal. But he's not the only one under performing, not by a long shot and that includes the management teams as they have brought these players in. I felt Foran was only clapping at the end and thanking the fans for sticking with the team, at least that's what I saw. People would be moaning if he just walked straight off saying that 'he isn't showing the loyals fans any gratitude' so he's damned either way.

Foran could have had 2 or three goals himself today if he put in a least half the effort that we have seen him produce. He was a liability from the start (not for the first time this season). He was over critical on more than one occasion (not for the first time this season) and he himself was probably the worst player on the park (and not for the first time this season).

For him to clap the fans at the end and try to get us all behind the team really p***** me off, because for a full 90 minutes he did nothing but stroll around the pitch and not once try and gee up the lads. There was no praise, no passion, no desire, no encouragement. Just lots of critisism to other players, even if it was he who played the initial bad pass in the first place.

We all know how close Butcher and Foran are, and for that reason I will slag off Butcher. But Foran is the club captain and should show the desire and passion in every single game, not just at the end when the fans are on his back!!!

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying. I think that he is clearly Butcher's golden boy and the manager can't see past him and will play him no matter what, but that's not Foran's fault. I do believe that unfortunately Foran is learning his leadership technique/skills from Butcher i.e. shout/moan, not really a good thing! He should be encouraging other players more yes, that would be one of the aspects I would like to see in an ICT captain, but that only goes so far. Ultimately all the players on the park are professional footballers and need to take responsibility for their own performance.

Was he really the worst player on the park or has his form just dipped more noticably due to previous good form? I have no idea why of course, is it injury, pressure, confidence or his upcoming fatherhood? Who knows. Tade has missed plenty of sitters too and has the touch of an elephant but because he runs and runs he seems to get away with most of the criticism.

People used to moan about Grantys captancy style- that he didn't say enough, was too quiet with the players etc and it would seem that people feel that we have gone from one extreme to the other which is fair enough.

At the end though (unless I missed something) I saw nothing wrong with what Foran did, as I said before if he just slinked away with his head down people would be gurning about that too. At least it was a bit more dignified than the 'fans' lining up to boo him and the other players off the park.

[+jagster]

Valid point RIG, unless we are all lip readers I guess we will never know and on the Proctor issue I thought it was more a case of telling him to get on with it and not to let the penalty get him down, Anyone know Procs number for confirmation

I love football - so many viewpoints, so many arguments - there's nothing like it.