Dublin Tourney

[caleyboy]

Anyone hear how our youth teams got on last week-end?

[caleyboy]

Anyone hear how our youth teams got on last week-end?

Well we obviously didn't win it or the official website would be letting us know by now. Why do we only hear about the wins - why don't we hear about the development of these kids and what they learned by participating in these tournaments. Are we competing in tournaments which include other PROFESSIONAL CLUBS? I may be wrong but I don't think we are. Our boys would learn a lot more if we did!

[Alex MacLeod]

Cant even find any info from the Dublin Cup site. The tourney itself involves youth teams from all over Ireland as well as some from other parts. This year included us, Rangers, Wolverhampton

[Alex MacLeod]

Having done a little research in the night niether of the U-13 or U-14 teams reached the finals of thier respective competitions. However they were by no means shamed and indeed were given very good reports for thier endeavours.

Results were:

U-13's

ICT 1 - 2 Crumlin Utd - ICT 1 - 0 Drogheda - ICT 0 - 1 Dundalk - ICT 2 - 1 Lucan UTD - ICT 3 - 2 Friends Select

U-14's

ICT 1 - 0 Crumlin - ICT 0 - 1 Drogheda - ICT 1 - 0 East Antrim - ICT 2 - 2 Shelborne

[caleyboy]

Having done a little research in the night niether of the U-13 or U-14 teams reached the finals of thier respective competitions. However they were by no means shamed and indeed were given very good reports for thier endeavours.

Results were:

U-13's

ICT 1 - 2 Crumlin Utd - ICT 1 - 0 Drogheda - ICT 0 - 1 Dundalk - ICT 2 - 1 Lucan UTD - ICT 3 - 2 Friends Select

U-14's

ICT 1 - 0 Crumlin - ICT 0 - 1 Drogheda - ICT 1 - 0 East Antrim - ICT 2 - 2 Shelborne

Thanks for that Alex. You took the time to research this info so well done you. Wouldn't it have been better for our boys development to have entered the sections which included the Pro teams? OK we can't expect to compete against the Man U's of this world mainly because of funding (which includes employment of coaches, facilities etc)and location but what a learning experience it would be for our boys. The city of Aberdeen hosts a tournament which now attracts the likes of Dundee Utd, Celtic and even Ross County but there was no sign of us competing there. I hope I'm wrong here but I feel we may be entering tournaments we feel we have a chance of winning and not pitting our wits against the best out there. I'm sure Charlie and his coaches do their best to get our kids up to a level dictated by the funding available but the the Club really has to take Youth DEVELOPMENT seriously and find some sugar daddy who has the means to fund this great cause SERIOUSLY! The club has made considerable progress over the years but we are still not producing any more kids, capable of playing regular first team football, than we were in the 90's. Charlie's department can only do so much with the money available.

[Kirishima]

On this occassion i'm happy nothing was on the site regarding scores or anything. Im dead against leagues/scores being published for under 16 teams. Just let them play, they are miles off being footballers, so just let them enjoy their footie without pressure. Oh, yeah, sorry, this is Scotland....get stuck in, what the **** was that, that was crap, hoof it, get rid of it...

[Hiro]

Having done a little research in the night niether of the U-13 or U-14 teams reached the finals of thier respective competitions. However they were by no means shamed and indeed were given very good reports for thier endeavours.

Results were:

U-13's

ICT 1 - 2 Crumlin Utd - ICT 1 - 0 Drogheda - ICT 0 - 1 Dundalk - ICT 2 - 1 Lucan UTD - ICT 3 - 2 Friends Select

U-14's

ICT 1 - 0 Crumlin - ICT 0 - 1 Drogheda - ICT 1 - 0 East Antrim - ICT 2 - 2 Shelborne

Thanks for that Alex. You took the time to research this info so well done you. Wouldn't it have been better for our boys development to have entered the sections which included the Pro teams? OK we can't expect to compete against the Man U's of this world mainly because of funding (which includes employment of coaches, facilities etc)and location but what a learning experience it would be for our boys. The city of Aberdeen hosts a tournament which now attracts the likes of Dundee Utd, Celtic and even Ross County but there was no sign of us competing there. I hope I'm wrong here but I feel we may be entering tournaments we feel we have a chance of winning and not pitting our wits against the best out there. I'm sure Charlie and his coaches do their best to get our kids up to a level dictated by the funding available but the the Club really has to take Youth DEVELOPMENT seriously and find some sugar daddy who has the means to fund this great cause SERIOUSLY! The club has made considerable progress over the years but we are still not producing any more kids, capable of playing regular first team football, than we were in the 90's. Charlie's department can only do so much with the money available.

Teams in bold are professional sides in the League of Ireland set-up. Crumlin United are a hugely successful Irish boys club similar to Hutchison Vale in Edinburgh or Wallsend Boys Club in Newcastle. In fact I'll think you'll find that they have produced players such as Mr A Rooney. I'm sure the standard faced by the boys would have good enough for their development.

[caleyboy]

Having done a little research in the night niether of the U-13 or U-14 teams reached the finals of thier respective competitions. However they were by no means shamed and indeed were given very good reports for thier endeavours.

Results were:

U-13's

ICT 1 - 2 Crumlin Utd - ICT 1 - 0 Drogheda - ICT 0 - 1 Dundalk - ICT 2 - 1 Lucan UTD - ICT 3 - 2 Friends Select

U-14's

ICT 1 - 0 Crumlin - ICT 0 - 1 Drogheda - ICT 1 - 0 East Antrim - ICT 2 - 2 Shelborne

Thanks for that Alex. You took the time to research this info so well done you. Wouldn't it have been better for our boys development to have entered the sections which included the Pro teams? OK we can't expect to compete against the Man U's of this world mainly because of funding (which includes employment of coaches, facilities etc)and location but what a learning experience it would be for our boys. The city of Aberdeen hosts a tournament which now attracts the likes of Dundee Utd, Celtic and even Ross County but there was no sign of us competing there. I hope I'm wrong here but I feel we may be entering tournaments we feel we have a chance of winning and not pitting our wits against the best out there. I'm sure Charlie and his coaches do their best to get our kids up to a level dictated by the funding available but the the Club really has to take Youth DEVELOPMENT seriously and find some sugar daddy who has the means to fund this great cause SERIOUSLY! The club has made considerable progress over the years but we are still not producing any more kids, capable of playing regular first team football, than we were in the 90's. Charlie's department can only do so much with the money available.

Teams in bold are professional sides in the League of Ireland set-up. Crumlin United are a hugely successful Irish boys club similar to Hutchison Vale in Edinburgh or Wallsend Boys Club in Newcastle. In fact I'll think you'll find that they have produced players such as Mr A Rooney. I'm sure the standard faced by the boys would have good enough for their development.

Sorry Hiro but I don't agree. The League of Ireland is part-time. Boys clubs are all very well and I know they produce some jewels but we are a Scottish Premier League club and should now be ahead of boys clubs and part-time levels.

[Yngwie]

The fact that all the games were very close, and we got an even mix of wins and defeats is proof that we were up against an entirely suitable level of opposition.

And anyway, when you are talking about 13 years olds it doesn't really matter what size of club they are affiliated to, they are schoolkids for whom football is a hobby not a profession.

[Wilsononourwing]

Having done a little research in the night niether of the U-13 or U-14 teams reached the finals of thier respective competitions. However they were by no means shamed and indeed were given very good reports for thier endeavours.

Results were:

U-13's

ICT 1 - 2 Crumlin Utd - ICT 1 - 0 Drogheda - ICT 0 - 1 Dundalk - ICT 2 - 1 Lucan UTD - ICT 3 - 2 Friends Select

U-14's

ICT 1 - 0 Crumlin - ICT 0 - 1 Drogheda - ICT 1 - 0 East Antrim - ICT 2 - 2 Shelborne

Thanks for that Alex. You took the time to research this info so well done you. Wouldn't it have been better for our boys development to have entered the sections which included the Pro teams? OK we can't expect to compete against the Man U's of this world mainly because of funding (which includes employment of coaches, facilities etc)and location but what a learning experience it would be for our boys. The city of Aberdeen hosts a tournament which now attracts the likes of Dundee Utd, Celtic and even Ross County but there was no sign of us competing there. I hope I'm wrong here but I feel we may be entering tournaments we feel we have a chance of winning and not pitting our wits against the best out there. I'm sure Charlie and his coaches do their best to get our kids up to a level dictated by the funding available but the the Club really has to take Youth DEVELOPMENT seriously and find some sugar daddy who has the means to fund this great cause SERIOUSLY! The club has made considerable progress over the years but we are still not producing any more kids, capable of playing regular first team football, than we were in the 90's. Charlie's department can only do so much with the money available.

Teams in bold are professional sides in the League of Ireland set-up. Crumlin United are a hugely successful Irish boys club similar to Hutchison Vale in Edinburgh or Wallsend Boys Club in Newcastle. In fact I'll think you'll find that they have produced players such as Mr A Rooney. I'm sure the standard faced by the boys would have good enough for their development.

Sorry Hiro but I don't agree. The League of Ireland is part-time. Boys clubs are all very well and I know they produce some jewels but we are a Scottish Premier League club and should now be ahead of boys clubs and part-time levels.

The standard of Irish youth football is definitely comparable to that of Scottish youth football. Although our two teams did not win their respective tourneys they did however give a good account off themselves. What you have to realise is that these tournaments are geared towards local Premier Irish teams winning and I'm 99.9999999% that the referees are fully briefed on this.

In defence of the U13 squad - I think the tournament started too soon for them. Two defeats were followed by three consecutive wins which meant that they just missed out on the finals.

Im looking forward to the tourney next year and another trip to Temple Bar!!!!

Cmon the Caley Thistle!!!!!!!!!!!

[cairngorm]

The fact that all the games were very close, and we got an even mix of wins and defeats is proof that we were up against an entirely suitable level of opposition.

And anyway, when you are talking about 13 years olds it doesn't really matter what size of club they are affiliated to, they are schoolkids for whom football is a hobby not a profession.

ye sur eis a hobby. some of these kids do a 60 mile(and more) round trip 4 times a week 3 for training and one for a game , going to Inverness to get the team bus down to Glasgow and other places .These kids are not traeting this as a hobby, and some paid out?400 for the Dublin trip and pay out for their own training gear very expesive HOBBY for 13 and 14 year olds dont you think? Oopps forgot about school work and exams on top of all this

[Alex MacLeod]

What club a youth team is affiliated to, or how big or small the team is, should have nothing to do with it. These are all children learning the game and the tournaments are a good place to learn, and are supposed to add a bit of fun as well.

Whether or not the league of Ireland is full time part time or played in someones back garden is irrelevant. On the island of Ireland they have youth development systems in place that put our efforts to shame. I believe they use the Dutch model, or at least something similar, and they are producing decent footballers now. Tournaments like the Dublin one are not about winning or losing. They are about honing the right attitude and skills with a little bit of competition and a lot of fun thrown in. The kids are allowed to enjoy the game away from the pressures of irate parents shouting abuse from the touchlines.

[caleyboy]

What club a youth team is affiliated to, or how big or small the team is, should have nothing to do with it. These are all children learning the game and the tournaments are a good place to learn, and are supposed to add a bit of fun as well.

Whether or not the league of Ireland is full time part time or played in someones back garden is irrelevant. On the island of Ireland they have youth development systems in place that put our efforts to shame. I believe they use the Dutch model, or at least something similar, and they are producing decent footballers now. Tournaments like the Dublin one are not about winning or losing. They are about honing the right attitude and skills with a little bit of competition and a lot of fun thrown in. The kids are allowed to enjoy the game away from the pressures of irate parents shouting abuse from the touchlines.

I don't think you would get a job with Charlie Christie if that's what you believe! Don't try to kid yourself, youth development at SPL level is not there for fun. It is a business and is deadly serious! It is there to produce players who can develop into full-time pros. Other associations are there to provide the platform for those who want to have fun and play with their mates. I don't know what books you have been reading but getting away from "irate parents shouting abuse from the touchlines" is nigh impossible with major problems in Holland (your Dutch model) and I'm told even at the tornament in Barcelona! You really should ask some parents how much these kids have to put into this "fun" game and how it affects those who are told that they are no longer needed at 13, 14 or 15? If the club is investing money they need a return - simple - serious stuff!

[Alex MacLeod]

What club a youth team is affiliated to, or how big or small the team is, should have nothing to do with it. These are all children learning the game and the tournaments are a good place to learn, and are supposed to add a bit of fun as well.

Whether or not the league of Ireland is full time part time or played in someones back garden is irrelevant. On the island of Ireland they have youth development systems in place that put our efforts to shame. I believe they use the Dutch model, or at least something similar, and they are producing decent footballers now. Tournaments like the Dublin one are not about winning or losing. They are about honing the right attitude and skills with a little bit of competition and a lot of fun thrown in. The kids are allowed to enjoy the game away from the pressures of irate parents shouting abuse from the touchlines.

I don't think you would get a job with Charlie Christie if that's what you believe! Don't try to kid yourself, youth development at SPL level is not there for fun. It is a business and is deadly serious! It is there to produce players who can develop into full-time pros. Other associations are there to provide the platform for those who want to have fun and play with their mates. I don't know what books you have been reading but getting away from "irate parents shouting abuse from the touchlines" is nigh impossible with major problems in Holland (your Dutch model) and I'm told even at the tornament in Barcelona! You really should ask some parents how much these kids have to put into this "fun" game and how it affects those who are told that they are no longer needed at 13, 14 or 15? If the club is investing money they need a return - simple - serious stuff!

I dont dispute any of what you said but if you reread you may see I wasn't referring to SPL level. What I'm saying is there shouldn't be an SPL or any other level in schoolchildrens set-ups. I go to the parks at weekends and watch the kids play full games on full size pitches with irate parents shouting abuse at refs and at their own kids. The dutch model is that the kids play short games on small pitches. They learn the basics of ball control and positioning and they get introduced slowly to the competitive aspect.

I dont know how much money any club invests but I do think our system is totally wrong.

example of that........a twelve year old plays for an Edinburgh boys club. He's been playing in a cup comp and his team are due to play in the final. He's spotted and is invited to Ibrox. Accompanied by his father he goes along for a trial and is offered a contract. Just before the father signs it is mentioned the lad will be playing in a final. Sorry says the Ibrox man. When he signs for us he wont be playing in any final. needless to say the signing never happened. Convince me that is right.

[PullMyFinger]

Sorry says the Ibrox man. When he signs for us he wont be playing in any final for anybody else.

Did he say ever, ever, ever?

:_thumbup:

Edited August 7, 2010 by Alex MacLeod

[caleyboy]

What club a youth team is affiliated to, or how big or small the team is, should have nothing to do with it. These are all children learning the game and the tournaments are a good place to learn, and are supposed to add a bit of fun as well.

Whether or not the league of Ireland is full time part time or played in someones back garden is irrelevant. On the island of Ireland they have youth development systems in place that put our efforts to shame. I believe they use the Dutch model, or at least something similar, and they are producing decent footballers now. Tournaments like the Dublin one are not about winning or losing. They are about honing the right attitude and skills with a little bit of competition and a lot of fun thrown in. The kids are allowed to enjoy the game away from the pressures of irate parents shouting abuse from the touchlines.

I don't think you would get a job with Charlie Christie if that's what you believe! Don't try to kid yourself, youth development at SPL level is not there for fun. It is a business and is deadly serious! It is there to produce players who can develop into full-time pros. Other associations are there to provide the platform for those who want to have fun and play with their mates. I don't know what books you have been reading but getting away from "irate parents shouting abuse from the touchlines" is nigh impossible with major problems in Holland (your Dutch model) and I'm told even at the tornament in Barcelona! You really should ask some parents how much these kids have to put into this "fun" game and how it affects those who are told that they are no longer needed at 13, 14 or 15? If the club is investing money they need a return - simple - serious stuff!

I dont dispute any of what you said but if you reread you may see I wasn't referring to SPL level. What I'm saying is there shouldn't be an SPL or any other level in schoolchildrens set-ups. I go to the parks at weekends and watch the kids play full games on full size pitches with irate parents shouting abuse at refs and at their own kids. The dutch model is that the kids play short games on small pitches. They learn the basics of ball control and positioning and they get introduced slowly to the competitive aspect.

I dont know how much money any club invests but I do think our system is totally wrong.

example of that........a twelve year old plays for an Edinburgh boys club. He's been playing in a cup comp and his team are due to play in the final. He's spotted and is invited to Ibrox. Accompanied by his father he goes along for a trial and is offered a contract. Just before the father signs it is mentioned the lad will be playing in a final. Sorry says the Ibrox man. When he signs for us he wont be playing in any final. needless to say the signing never happened. Convince me that is right.

The "small sided" game is very much for primary school age, acknowledged here, Holland and I'm sure thro most of Europe - I have no problem with this and fully support the concept. We must however remember that this is a skills development environment in preparation for the 11's game when they learn positioning skills etc. No matter what level you speak about, you will ALwAYS have irate parents at matches so the Club's job is also parent education - something which will still be ongoing for may years to come.

What you have to accept Alex is that we are an SPL club and youth development is a vitally important part of ICT's function. Having Charlie Christie, Duncan Shearer and Martin Bell caoching our kids must be a benefit - they have played the game and can impart knowledge as well as being SFA qualified. This is the PRO level where our regular playing experience is against similar PRO teams. The WHOLE point of my post was to ask "Why are we not playing in summer tournaments against other PRO clubs"?

[Libero]

Put simply the best or most successful clubs do not always have the best youth system.

In the EPL, West Ham have long been considered to have one of the best youth systems in the country, their on field status doesnt match the status of their youth system.

The same can be said for Leeds and Ipswich who have great youth systems but are not considered top english clubs ATM

Bigger club or higher league does not always equal better youth system

Edited August 9, 2010 by Libero

[caleyboy]

Put simply the best or most successful clubs do not always have the best youth system.

In the EPL, West Ham have long been considered to have one of the best youth systems in the country, their on field status doesnt match the status of their youth system.

The same can be said for Leeds and Ipswich who have great youth systems but are not considered top english clubs ATM

Bigger club or higher league does not always equal better youth system

You are spot on. I wonder which summer tournaments they compete in? A good example in Scotland is Stenhousemuir FC, a SFL2 side but because of their Youth Programme they qualify for the top grade youth structure.