David Sutherland

[alimci]

I have been telling a German friend for years how Inverness has no money, how low our wages are, how Rankin was our most expensive signing at £9.99, etc. Last week he gleefully pointed out to me an article in When Saturday Comes about SPL2, where Inverness and Gretna were used as examples of clubs benefiting from cash injections from individuals. Despite my protests he now thinks we are loaded. So does anyone have any vague idea of how much David Sutherland has invested over the years, so I can convince my friend he is not Abramovich...

[maimie]

technically nothing... :007:

tin hat... :001:

[Charles Bannerman]

I don't have a complete knowledge of what David, or more specifically Tulloch, has invested in ICT but, off the top of my head, I can provide a reasonable overview. As a result of this, and other efforts, ICT certainly isn't loaded but it is no longer in debt and currently holds its head above the water.

There was the approx £500,000 investment which in 2002 gave Tulloch the chair of the club and control of the board for five years. Apart from finally seeing off the last vestiges of the £2M debt of 2000, this probably also facilitated what turned out to be the imminent transition of ICT from the SFL to the SPL.

Tulloch also had a significant financial input to the capital cost of the North and South stands, along with a loan from Highland Council. I don't recollect the details and figures but the Tulloch input would have assisted to the tune of several hundreds of thousands of pounds. Tulloch as a company also physically put the stands there in an incredibly short timescale and in advance of a very tight deadline in January 2005. This brought SPL football to Inverness.

I would also not be surprised if I were told that Tulloch are possibly picking up quite a few odds and ends of costs relating to administration and staffing.

One other major contribution by David Sutherland, albeit not a direct financial one, was his role in the setting up of the ICT Trust, of which he is still a member. He played a major part in this initiative which (and I STILL haven't had a categorical answer out of him excactly HOW!) magically spirited away from club to trust, albeit at the expense of the club losing ownership of its principal asset the stadium, over £2M of debt, mainly to the Bank of Scotland. I do not believe that this could have happened without David's input and influence.

So in summary, but without some of the financial details and numbers, David Sutherland in one way or another has played a major part in the transition of ICT from an almost bankrupt middle order Division 1 club to a successful and financially relatively stable entity which plays SPL football in Inverness and is currently in the top half of the table.

HOWEVER there is a fundamental difference between what has happened at Gretna and Inverness. The two most definitely are not to be compared.

In contrast with what I have said above about David Sutherland and ICT, Brooks Mileson has simply thrown money at a club which does not enjoy the infrastructure necessary to be viable at anything above a very rudimentary level of play. Gretna's wages are way above what ICT have ever paid (as I'm sure David Bingham discovered) and I do not believe that the situation there is anything like sustainable without the straightforward and ongoing bankrolling of Brooks Mileson. I'm not at all convinced that balancing the books is very much of an issue at all at Raydale Park.

In summary, David Sutherland's overall input to Caley Thistle has had the effect of creating as financially stable and as viable an entity as it is reasonable to hope for in the current football climate. The emphasis has been on using his input to stabilise and give a viable future to the club. This is certainly not a straightforward bankrolling job.

On the other hand Brooks Mileson appears to have created and continues to prop up a dreadfully precarious house of cards which has stretched up very high but could so easily come crashing down.

[Scotty]

To put it quite simply ....

Tullochs and/or David Sutherland have ensured that ICT continues to exist. Without intervention from them at a time when ICTs debts were out of control, I firmly believe ICT would no longer be around, or if we were, we would most certainly not be in the SPL.

1. He organised the restructuring of the 2m debt into a trust, effectively taking the club out of debt. Like Charles, I am not sure how he did it, but he did.

2. His profile with our creditors (the bank mainly) was high enough that he kept them at bay while restructuring the club.

3. He put a structure in place that ensures we try to balance the budget every year - a boring point but VERY important

4. He/Tullochs purchased hundreds of thousands worth of shares putting money directly into the club

5. He/Tullochs were instrumental in the project that saw our additional two stands built in record time, and at some cost not only to the club but also to Tullochs. Willie Fisher (staunch ICT fan) also deserves huge credit as the project manager  :004:

6. Charles said "I would also not be surprised if I were told that Tulloch are possibly picking up quite a few odds and ends of costs relating to administration and staffing." .... I dont know if it is Tullochs or DS personally, but in the past, I was told he often picked up tabs for things we hear very little about ... whether it be office furniture, staffing, or various bits and pieces ... not to mention a few fan get togethers on various Scottish Cup trips (even if he does still owe IHE a double voddie).

As Charles says, the difference between Gretna and ICT is a big one.

Its like the old adage about financial aid to the third world .... give a man a fish and he will eat well for a day, teach him how to fish and he will eat well forever. In our case, we have had a fair bit of cash put our way but nowhere like the bucketloads that were thrown at Livi or Gretna. Instead, we have been taught -  using David's expertise and business acumen - how to better manage the money we do have and make it work for us so that we can thrive for years to come.

[Bridge_Ender]

The Gretna bubble will burst, in fact, it has already started to with the complete abolishment of their youth system. County are suffering a similar fate to Livi in that they tried to run before they could really walk, throwing money at players in the SPL race.

I still think we got lucky gaining promotion when we did. For all the criticisms of the club off the field, we are probably the only one which breaks even every season and that is a pretty big achievement.

[Charles Bannerman]

The Duke of Wellington would have loved Caley Thistle for it was he who, after the Battle of Waterloo, said "It was a damned close run thing".

That might have been a suitable alternative title for either Ian Broadfoot's book or mine because it epitomises the manner in which Caley Thistle has progressed since 1993.

I'm obviously not going to retell the merger saga, but the underlying theme of my book was the tiny margins... a whole string of them.... by which the various steps in the formation of ICT were able to take place. The whole enterprise could have fallen if even one of them had not come off.

Progress to the SPL has been a similar story.

It was only by a tiny margin that ICT survived the debt crisis of 1999-2001, it was only "against all odds" (sorry!) that the team won Division 1 in 2004 and I believe that this would have been at least as difficult to win in many other years. The Pittodrie deal only just squeaked through and was only marginally viable and similarly it was only by the tiniest of margins that the Division 1 title was converted into SPL football during that fraught summer of politics in 2004.

Finally, getting out of Aberdeen and home to Inverness in January 2005 was also a "skin of the teeth" job.

So there you are... add up the close run things and you have an amazing story.

[caley100]

Not least using i'm sure a lot of influence from him in gaining groundshare and eventual upgrading of the stadium and the early homecoming.

[alimci]

Charles and Scotty, that is fantastic - thank you very much for that.  :003:

[Kingsmills]

The then PLC under the chairmanship of Doug McGillvray, although doubtless well intentioned, had undoubtedly dug itself into a very deep financial hole.

Total liabilities were hurtling towards three million pounds and were increasing at the rate of over £300,000 a year and that at a time when total turnover was less than a million. That is a critical state of affairs for any company.

Frankly, although doing their best, that regime was unsustainable and the existing board members had no clear idea of how to progress whilst servicing the debt far less making any inroads into it.

Our high profile triumph at Parkhead was perhaps more signifigant than many supporters realise.

In my opinion if it had not been for the windfall of being drawn away at Parkhead and the subsequent income from to two SKY matches against Aberdeen I doubt very much if the company would have survived that financial year. So perhaps we have the hapless John Barnes to  thank for our current status almost as  much as David Sutherland.

E ven with those huge bonuses the company contrived to lose money that year and by the time David Sutherland came along our creditors, particularly the bank, were becoming distinctly twitchy.

I agree with other posters that if it hadn't been for the bank's confidence in his business acumen and, I suspect, personal guarantees of the debt, they would have pulled the plug before much longer. Tht might not have meant the complete demise of the club but would have spelt the end of full tme football and any SPL ambitions perhaps permenantly.

Many people, both on anf off the pitch, have contributed to our current success but probably none more so than Mr Sutherland.

[caleyboy]

Very interesting reading gentlemen. DS (and let's not forget the likes of Ken MacKie + directors) certainly created what seems like a reasonable business concern and I do not think this could have been achieved without them. However, we rent our ground, including the two new stands which I believe are owned indirectly by DS or one of his family companies. We are unlikely to make a profit on a regular basis. We will always be a club unable to afford top wages (so what?). With good financial management we will probably wash our face each year. DS left at a time when our accounts showed a profit (arguably because of the Brewster settlement from DU) but things are still very tight financially.

All said, I really cannot believe that DS or Tullochs have not made financial gain for their efforts but I do not grudge them one solitary penny! Can we  progress from here without some serious financial injection?

David Sutherland, Ken MacKie and  Doug MacGilvary are now history- well done to them all and their directors.  :clapping04: They all had their strengths and weaknesses but we now need to leave them in the history books and give our new chairman the fan's full support. Another 1000 on home gates would be a good start.

 

[CaleyD]

Neither DS, His Family or any of his companies own any of the stands, they are owned by the Charitable Trust, which in effect makes the owners of it those who would benefit from any profits made by the Trust.  I believe the Inverness Sports community is the benefactors of the Trust and Tullochs (and possibly others) underwrite the Trusts debts.  If things went belly up tomorrow and the stadium had to be sold then any money left after clearing the trusts debts would be used to promote/benefit sport in the Inverness area.

Tulloch/DS/Directors will have made no direct money from any of their dealins with ICT, but what they would have generates is a lot of goodwill, which is good for any business.

Why do people find it so hard to believe that a person just wants to give back to the community/area that has served them so well without having some kind of hidden motive???

[Charles Bannerman]

I can see no way at all in which Tullochs have made direct monetary gain out of their involvement with ICT. However, businesses are perfectly entitled to expect some kind of benefit from the financial support they give sports clubs.

In Tullochs' case, they have put a huge amount into ICT and, quite reasonably, have received a huge amount of positive publicity and goodwill out of what they have done. In particular, their construction of the stands in 43 days shot them to the forefront on a national scale and they are perfectly entitled to that as a return for their efforts and investment.

As Caley D points out, the stadium and its contents are owned by the Trust, but so are any liabilities related to that - presumably also including any debts accruing from the stands.

It was probably a major omission on my part when I was evaluating David Sutherland's contribution not to have mentioned Ken MacKie.

Ken was effectively David's appointee and as such he did a marvellous job as a "steady hand" on the financial tiller. Also, don't underestimate Ken's quiet but utterly determined diplomacy during that uncertain summer of 2004 as SPL status hung in the balance.

Caley Thistle have been very lucky with their Chairmen so far. Jock McDonald greatly assisted SFL entry and persuaded the powers that be that the imopossible could in fact be delivered with the merger.

Dougie McGilvray played a huge part in getting the equally necessary stadium there although the latter part of his tenure was overshadowed by the increasing debt.

We have already discussed David Sutherland and now Caley Thistle moves on to the era of Alan Savage.

[Scotty]

Dont think Tullochs did too badly out of the PR of constructing 2 stands in 45 days either .... and their website shows it as one of several projects in their leisure portfolio

http://www.tulloch-construction.com/project-leisure-ictfc.php

I have met and chatted with DS on numerous occasions both formally and informally and the bottom-line for me is that he seems to be an ordinary guy (albeit somewhat more prosperous than most of us) who does not have an ulterior motive as far as ICT are concerned (although there are some who continue to question his motives even after all this time). He has used his business skills and expertise to put us on the right track and for the second time has removed himself from running the club in the hope that someone else can take us to the next level.

I hear good things about Alan Savage too and clearly DS thinks that he is the man that can take us to that next level. Caleyboy - you make some good points and I wanted to pick up on one of them. You mentioned 'financial injection' ... literally a matter of days after AS was named as chairman, we heard of him using his business contacts to further the club's progress and there has now been a 'rumour' floating around for a few weeks about a wealthy ex-pat .... could this be the next step ? I guess we will have to wait and see.

Each and every director we have, or have had has made a contribution to our success, especially our chairmen - whether that be DS as mentioned above, the much maligned Dougie McGillivary who some have accused of getting us into the financial mess in the first place but also had the unenviable task of overseeing a period where we had to build an access road as well as a stadium, or whether it was the quiet effectiveness of Ken Mackie who rallied support for our SPL bid, kept the head when Plastic Thistle officials were shouting and bawling, and ultimately applied pressure in the right places as he played a huge role in getting us into the SPL.

Alan Savage has some big shoes to fill, but by all accounts he is up to the task ... interesting times ahead I think.

[Scotty]

Charles - its spooky, but I must have been writing my comments at the same time as you - and for yet another day we seem to be on a very similar wavelength ..... my only omission was failing to mention Jock and I agree with your assesment there too !!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Any man who owes a feckin double voddie and coke fer five years is a feckin cad.

[Heilandee]

Eh ken a boy wha's owed a bottle oh Smirnoff red for ower a year.....ye widnae credit some folk eh?

[Kingsmills]

When condidering individuals who have made a signnifigant contribion to the club we shouldn't forget that the person who made the largest personal investment in the club was In Fraser who ultimately suffered the biggest personal loss.

Mr Fraser was seen, perhaps with justification, as being unreasonably obstructive at the time of the restructuring but his initial capital input did much to help get the cluboff the ground.

[caleyboy]

Well said Kingsmills. The Coff put his money on the table at a time no others would touch us. He was courted because he wouldn't toe the party line and then dumped like a sack of tatties.

CaleyD - The front pages never tell the whole story!

Good luck Alan Savage - I hope you can lead the Club (not just the team) to the next level and write your own piece of history!