Danny Wilson Ineligible?

[CaleyD]

The only governing body that can make or break this situation is the FA. Hearts are banking on the suspension being served on the first league game of 2010/2011.

Is there documentary evidence available online that suggest that it wasn't (e.g. a list of suspended players for that weekend)?

 

I know it's just a newspaper preview, but.....http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/13/squad-sheets-liverpool-arsenal

[Yngwie]

I'm still unclear as to whether his supension was even supposed to be served during his time in England.

[old caley girl]

I'm still unclear as to whether his supension was even supposed to be served during his time in England.

Think we all are!

[djh222]

So let me get this straight.  Hearts thought there might be a problem in the eligibility of one Daniel Wilson.  The cup organisers gave the go-ahead to play him in the game, because they "couldn't find the piece of paper where it said he was banned".  Why did Hearts just end it there?  There was nothing to stop them from looking at every possible avenue to find out whether or not what the SFL had told them was correct.  They could even have gone back after finding that he had a suspension to serve and shouldn't be played, upon which the SFL would discover their mistake, announce him as suspended and no-one would have batted an eyelid.  Instead they've waltzed on and left this huge mess behind them that could be fatal for their cup hopes.

 

There must be something done and a replay of the game is the minimum we should settle for.

And the replay should be played up in Inverness to make it fair.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

ICTRoughi

 

You miss a key point - the punishment can only be applied within the Scottish League Cup. Zaliuakas is suspended from the final because he has picked up two yellow cards. Wilson was suspended because he picked up two yellow cards but the SFA made a special case for him

 

Go back to what Alex posted yesterday:

 

Posted Yesterday, 07:19 PM

Quote

The spokesman said: "Danny Wilson was red carded in the 2010 League Cup final for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. That incurs a ban for the next game in that competition.

"He was then transferred to Liverpool that summer. When the player was given a Fifa International Transfer Certificate that made reference to the suspension which had still to be served.

"When the player was signed by Hearts there was a new Fifa International Transfer Certificate from the FA sent to the SFA which made no reference to any outstanding ban.

He could only serve his ban in Scottish League Cup.

I think someone at the FA has made a balls up with the FIFA transfer certificate. I would assume that if Hearts clarified the point with SFA they would be deemed not to have deliberately fielded an ineligible player. So the SFA advisor has maybe also made a balls up.

Its a hard one but perhaps the club should make official complaint if for nothing else than to open an investigation into where the balls up was made.

[SanMiguel]

On the Hm kick back forum. There is alot of hate. In general. I hope this snowballs and gives them more to cry about. 

[ICTRoughi]

ICTRoughi   You miss a key point - the punishment can only be applied within the Scottish League Cup. Zaliuakas is suspended from the final because he has picked up two yellow cards. Wilson was suspended because he picked up two yellow cards but the SFA made a special case for him   Go back to what Alex posted yesterday:   Posted Yesterday, 07:19 PM Quote The spokesman said: "Danny Wilson was red carded in the 2010 League Cup final for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. That incurs a ban for the next game in that competition. "He was then transferred to Liverpool that summer. When the player was given a Fifa International Transfer Certificate that made reference to the suspension which had still to be served. "When the player was signed by Hearts there was a new Fifa International Transfer Certificate from the FA sent to the SFA which made no reference to any outstanding ban. He could only serve his ban in Scottish League Cup. I think someone at the FA has made a balls up with the FIFA transfer certificate. I would assume that if Hearts clarified the point with SFA they would be deemed not to have deliberately fielded an ineligible player. So the SFA advisor has maybe also made a balls up. Its a hard one but perhaps the club should make official complaint if for nothing else than to open an investigation into where the balls up was made.

First of all, I am well aware that the ban is competition specific. What I have seen and told is that the because he changed country it would apply to the first game of that very season. All we need is the FA to confirm or deny that to be the case. If it is the case, we move on. If it isn't the case then we pursue even further. Not to nit pick or anything but it was a straight red that Wilson got for denying a goal scoring opportunity.

[Alex MacLeod]

The only governing body that can make or break this situation is the FA. Hearts are banking on the suspension being served on the first league game of 2010/2011.

I see that as wrong. DW was suspended for one Scottish League Cup game not an English domestic cup or league game. The people at fault are the SFA. They are the ones who scrutinise and approve player registrations. They are the ones who, regardless of what was on a piece of paper sent up from the FA, should have checked their own database and seen that he had an outstanding suspension. They are the people who must answer to this charge and they are the ones who should decide punishment if it is merited.

I dont ask that Hearts be punished or that the game should be replayed. I ask that a full investigation is carried out and plausable answers made public.

[Guest]

Was just on the Hibs forum (hibs.net) and some guy emailed the FA yesterday:

 

"I emailed the FA yesterday and got this prompt reply today....

'Thank you for contacting the Football Association. As the suspension was handed out under the jurisdiction of the Scottish Football Association, you would need to contact them for full clarification' "

 

This would suggest the FA don't have any evidence of the suspension.

[Alex MacLeod]

 

First of all, I am well aware that the ban is competition specific. What I have seen and told is that the because he changed country it would apply to the first game of that very season.

All we need is the FA to confirm or deny that to be the case. If it is the case, we move on. If it isn't the case then we pursue even further.

Maybe you'd like to share with the rest of us what you have seen. I and others have read through all the rules, that are freely available online, and we can find no reference to any punishment being carried across associations.

[Renegade]

Why should this Liverpool v Arsenal game have anything to do with it?  He was sent off in the Scottish League Cup Final.  He played in the next league game.  He was not banned for that.  He played in the next cup game.  He was not banned for that.  He played in Liverpool's first League Cup game.  He was not banned for that.  Why would this English Premier League match even need to come into question, when he played in two cup competitions and the league matches following his sending off?

 

It must then be Saturday's game he should have been banned for.

[Scotty]

The fault is definitely north of the border as far as I am concerned .....

 

The International Transfer certificate, amongst other contract and eligibility related stuff, confirms that he is not currently serving a ban, or due to serve one from the English FA that would be applicable internationally ... ie. there is no impending ban in England. It has sweet (S)FA to do with any disciplinary issues in Scotland.

 

The ITC should be consolidated with any paperwork that was in existence when he left Scotland to give a full picture ... ie. no ban from England, but an outstanding League cup ban from Scotland, ergo, a one match ban to be served.

 

Putting the conspiracy hat on, I suggest Hearts knew he was banned, possibly because the player asked, and they asked the question, but after getting the all-clear from an inept bureaucrat (are there any other types in the offices in Glasgow?) decided to play him anyway ..... a risk they decided to take ..... and a consequence now up in the air unless there is a truthful explanation of why he was allowed to play

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

The English FA do not need any evidence. It has no bearing on their fixtures possibly in the same way the French have welcomed Joey Barton with open arms. As Alex has indicated Wilson still has the outstanding punishment to be served on his Scottish football passport. It has not vanished. I did say two yellows but I am mindful I should have said a red. It was merely to point out that Zaliuakus is suspended for the final because he has accrued punishments in the competition. If he was loaned out before the final or went abroad he would still have to miss the first league cup match on his return even in five years time.

 

I am beginning to think that the overhaul of the disciplinary system by the SFA is why they are burying records.

 

I repeat that Hearts clearly thought there was an issue or they would not have checked the situation.

[Yngwie]

It's quite amusing that Hibs fans seem more worked up over this than we are!

[ICTRoughi]

 

First of all, I am well aware that the ban is competition specific. What I have seen and told is that the because he changed country it would apply to the first game of that very season. All we need is the FA to confirm or deny that to be the case. If it is the case, we move on. If it isn't the case then we pursue even further.

Maybe you'd like to share with the rest of us what you have seen. I and others have read through all the rules, that are freely available online, and we can find no reference to any punishment being carried across associations.

From talking to Ewen Murray on twitter and reading the Jambos Kickback forum suggests that to be the case however while writing this I do understand there would be an obvious agenda for both sources to be in favour of Hearts. Like many of you, I would love an explanation to put this all to bed and we can move on. My personal opinion is that Danny Wilson was suspended for the game on Saturday and the SFA/SFL had no clue. Only until Hibs fans brought this to our attentions. If we fight this to the death, we could gain something out of this.

[Yngwie]

Hearts could remove any uncertainty once and for all by just getting Danny Wilson to say when he served that suspension. If for some reason he can't remember, his employer, Liverpool, would very quickly be able to tell him from their own records. Simple.

[maccapacca]

I wouldn't listen to Ewan Murray, whilst he is from Inverness, he is not exactly impartial.  He is Jambo through and through - I knew him as a kid.

[ICTRoughi]

Did Danny Wilson know he could of been suspended? If he brought it to the attention of Hearts then obviously knew he hadn't served any ban.

[hislopsoffsideagain]

This smells of an SFA **** up - they seem to have mistakenly told Hearts that Wilson is not suspended.  The subsequent explanation - or the lack of - mean that this now increasingly stinks of an SFA cover up.  Either he has served his suspension or he hasn't.  So far no-one has managed to define when he could have served the suspension - which implies that he hasn't done so.  It sounds like the club were contacted this morning and told there was no issue - they have decided to ask the SFA to explain what happened and have not received a satisfactory answer.

 

It doesn't sound to me like Hearts have done anything wrong, but it's increasingly likely that someone at Hampden has made an enormous error and the powers that be are hoping that, if they ignore questions about it for long enough, the problem will go away.

 

And what do we do if it turns out the SFA made an @rse of it?  Buggered if I know.

[caleyblue29]

surely a replay if it turns out to sfa error its the only descent thing to do  

[Big G]

Apologies if I am wrong but were STV not running a piece last night confirming "Wilson was eligable"? This seems to have disapeared.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

The truth is out there....

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

....but don't expect somebody at the SFA to provide it ;-)

[ICTRoughi]

Apologies if I am wrong but were STV not running a piece last night confirming "Wilson was eligable"? This seems to have disapeared.

Still there. It's on the Hearts page on STV website.

[ICTRoughi]

Interesting analogy on Jambos Kickback.

"Guys, this is very simple.

Could there have been **** up with regards to Wilson's suspension? Yes. Could it be Hearts or the SFA/SFL/SPL's fault? No.

Wilson was sent off in the 2010 LC final for non-violent conduct. As a result, the suspension is delayed until the next Scottish League Cup match. Had the player remained in Scotland, he would have missed the first league cup game (of whoever he was playing for).

However, DW transferred to Liverpool in July 2010. When a player transfers across borders he is issued an International Transfer Certificate which originates with Home FA (SFA) , sent via FIFA, to the new club's FA (the English FA). Detailed on that certificate is any suspensions that is carried with the player.

The reason for the International Travel Certificates and the carrying of suspensions, is to stop players just transferring to other countries if they are suspended for long periods of time. For example, Joey Barton received an unprecedented 12 match suspension back in 2010. If the International Travel Certificates did not carry suspensions, he could simply have transferred to another country and continued playing as normal - not exactly fair is it?

On the DW's certificate from Rangers to Liverpool, a suspension of 1 domestic match was detailed.

DW received another FIFA International Transfer Certificate when he moved from Liverpool to Hearts. No suspensions were listed.

Did DW serve his suspension at Liverpool? Possibly. He certainly missed a number of EPL games at the start of the season. Hobos on deepthroat.net have tracked down a guardian article where it lists no suspensions for the game against Arsenal. This is either factually incorrect (most likely scenario) or the FA have not imposed the suspension which carried over from his transfer from Rangers.

If the (English) FA have not, then the (English) FA are at fault and should have detailed the suspension. However, given the fact that he did not feature in the Arsenal game (the game the suspension would have covered), it's a moot point.

Regardless of the situation, under FIFA transfer rules and SFA/SPL/SFL rules he would not have been suspended for the LC semi regardless. This is backed up by 1) the aforementioned rules 2) the suspension list issued by the SFA last week 3) clarification by HoMFC to the SFA last week.

There's only one possible organisation that could've messed up on this and that is the (English) FA. Regardless it has absolutely nothing to do with Hearts or the SFA/SPL/SFL and is backed up by legal documents.

This is very simple."