Friday Night Football

[RiG]

3 hours ago, Glover said:

All the money in football comes from fans, and football should be played at whichever time is optimal for the majority who would attend.  That sounds very unicorn and rainbows I know, but how much will TV companies realistically pay for games in deserted stadia?  

The (vast) majority of income for English Premiership clubs comes from Sky, BT etc. Revenue from fans makes up a surprisingly small percentage of the total. However in Scotland I think it's still something like 60% of clubs income (on average) comes from season tickets, match day tickets. I'd need to go looking for the numbers to back that up as I can't recall them exactly but those were figures I seem to mind from somewhere.

[CaleyCanary]

Back in the 60s I spent most of my teenage years living in Chester - a great area for a footie fan. Tranmere Rovers played all their home games on a Friday night as they couldn't compete with Liverpool and Everton on a Saturday afternoon - and it worked for them. I started going along when I was 13 and it got me hooked, the lack of visiting fans in greater numbers was not thought of as an issue and there was something magical about playing under the floodlights. It freed up Saturday for me giving the choice of whatever game took my fancy at Liverpool, Everton, Chester or Wrexham - you gotta love turning up wherever you like and paying cash at the turnstile! I still follow Tranmere today so that Friday night policy won them a supporter for life.

Ok it's a very different scenario these days with so many competing activities and the TV, life was a helluva lot simpler 50 years ago. A benefit of this may be getting supporters of the ugly sisters that head south on a Saturday coming along to TCS on a Friday night. For me now, it's hard enough getting up north for a Saturday game, Friday nights just wouldn't be possible. But on the whole, if it adds numbers to the local support I'd back a proposal for it.

Offsetting an expected drop in the numbers of visiting fans with a hopeful rise in local support has got to be a good long term strategy to foster young supporter loyalty and increase the crowd numbers as the years go on. I don't think there's any one strategy going to provide the answer, anything tried has to be done in conjunction with lowering the price of admission as I think that's the biggest single cause of dwindling support. It's not an idea to dismiss out of hand.

[Scotty]

I would agree with RiG, the smaller the club (or league) then the greater the reliance on income directly from fans. Once a club gets to a certain size - thinking English Premiership here or other similar leagues - then income from fans is but one of many revenue streams, and not the biggest one. I remember seeing something about Man Utd at some point about transfer dealings, and the sale of merchandise with a new player name on it for example offsets a huge portion of that player's transfer fee ... the numbers were mind boggling. 

For ICT and teams like us though, the fans still are (or should be) important ... personally I think a Friday night is better than any other time that has been dreamed up outside of the traditional Saturday 3pm, but I am sure you could ask a hundred others and come up with quite a few different responses. Do the club even have a say in this ? Not sure they do.  

[ICTPaisley]

I’d be more inclined to go if it was on a Friday night. Sometimes a junior game will happen on a Friday night down this way. You see a few more through the gates and I agree under the lights it’s a good spectacle. I put it down to more neutrals going along though who would usually not go as they have other football commitments on a Saturday. 

[CaleyCanary]

1 minute ago, ICTPAISLEY said:

I put it down to more neutrals going along though who would usually not go as they have other football commitments on a Saturday. 

Spot on - that's how I first went to Prenton Park, as a neutral and the experience grew on me...

[Glover]

24 minutes ago, RiG said:

The (vast) majority of income for English Premiership clubs comes from Sky, BT etc. Revenue from fans makes up a surprisingly small percentage of the total. However in Scotland I think it's still something like 60% of clubs income (on average) comes from season tickets, match day tickets. I'd need to go looking for the numbers to back that up as I can't recall them exactly but those were figures I seem to mind from somewhere.

Yes, my line was a bit pedantic in that Sky, BT etc are still reliant on fans i.e. it is by discrete subscription and thus still fan of football money underpinning it - but yes, I know what your main point is.  

Especially in Scotland, clubs should be doing their utmost to get fans attending and sadly there is very little social innovation in Scottish football - closed shops, old boys networks, etc. is far from the interdisciplinary, across team collaborations that is behind driving change for societies.   It's not that the ideas here are outlandish or unworkable, it's just that football beaks and boards are not dynamic but traditional.  

Friday night summer football 

[Scarlet Pimple]

So what's your direct connection to Inverness and  ICT in particular Caley Canary?

[+Gringo]

13 hours ago, CaleyD said:

What would it take to make Friday Night Football work?

Play all Friday night football on a Saturday at 3pm. 

 

[CaleyD]

14 hours ago, RiG said:

The (vast) majority of income for English Premiership clubs comes from Sky, BT etc. Revenue from fans makes up a surprisingly small percentage of the total. However in Scotland I think it's still something like 60% of clubs income (on average) comes from season tickets, match day tickets. I'd need to go looking for the numbers to back that up as I can't recall them exactly but those were figures I seem to mind from somewhere.

For a club of our size, when in the top league, then non-tv income would have been about 70%.  However, the value in some of that other income...shirt sponsorship, ad boards etc...was higher due to the chance of it appearing on TV, so you'd maybe push towards an adjusted figure in the region of 60%.  Ticket/fan (non corporate) income would make up a bit over half of that...maybe more towards two thirds (35% to 40% of total).

In the championship the largest drop in income is from share of TV, so ticket/fan income could easily push the 50% mark...but I'm not sure it would get as high as 60%.

[CaleyD]

3 hours ago, Gringo said:

Play all Friday night football on a Saturday at 3pm. 

Fully expected that response from someone...glad not to be disappointed...ya kant. 

[Kingsmills]

I can see a certain attraction but, from a personal point of view, it would make it difficult to attend most home games and I suspect that many others will be in the same boat. Accordingly, it's a no from me.

[CaleyD]

32 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

I can see a certain attraction but, from a personal point of view, it would make it difficult to attend most home games and I suspect that many others will be in the same boat. Accordingly, it's a no from me.

Taking the personal element out of it, then it ultimately comes down to whether or not it would attract more than it loses...and without a bit of work to survey/test that, all we have is the subjective answer.

There's a part of me that believes Scottish Football is possibly attracting about everyone who's interested in attending already....our % of population figure is amongst the highest in the world....can that be increased even further?  If so, then it's not something that can be done on an individual club basis.  Alternatively, the real issue might be that with so many teams we are just cutting up the cake into too many small pieces and in order to improve our attendance then we have to "steal" from another club.....or reduce the number of clubs!!

[MorayJaggie]

8 minutes ago, CaleyD said:

Taking the personal element out of it, then it ultimately comes down to whether or not it would attract more than it loses...and without a bit of work to survey/test that, all we have is the subjective answer.

There's a part of me that believes Scottish Football is possibly attracting about everyone who's interested in attending already....our % of population figure is amongst the highest in the world....can that be increased even further?  If so, then it's not something that can be done on an individual club basis.  Alternatively, the real issue might be that with so many teams we are just cutting up the cake into too many small pieces and in order to improve our attendance then we have to "steal" from another club.....or reduce the number of clubs!!

Agree with your last point Caley d however if locals supported local teams it would be a different landscape instead of the bus loads of glory hunters travelling down the A9 week in week out.

[CaleyD]

1 minute ago, MorayJaggie said:

Agree with your last point Caley d however if locals supported local teams it would be a different landscape instead of the bus loads of glory hunters travelling down the A9 week in week out.

Been happening for as long as I can remember...and bigger/older and better-resourced teams than us have failed to do anything which has ever had an impact on it.  Perhaps Friday night football which makes it a bit tougher for people to travel to see their "home" team might encourage them to stay local instead?

[Glover]

Having a rival (perceived threat) is what well-attended clubs generally have and/or monopoly.  We are in one of the most sparsely populated areas.  JR on BBC seemed to imply RC had a bigger fan base (and thus budget).  Perhaps ICT have been a bigger boogeyman for RC than the other way round.  Perhaps we have a more apathetic base than other teams?  We can adjust for that but as CaleyD says it’s all subjective until we can do research into measures to adjust for that.

[CaleyCanary]

On 10/19/2018 at 9:38 PM, Scarlet Pimple said:

So what's your direct connection to Inverness and  ICT in particular Caley Canary?

Hi SP, no direct connection with Sneck - was brought up in Aberdeen but had family in Keith and Glenbarry. Caley was my 'wee' team after seeing them playing at Keith when I was a nipper. That got cemented later in the 1980s when I was stationed at Kinloss (I've moved about a bit!) and then came 1994, the advent of the Internutters and the rest is history 

Edited October 21, 2018 by CaleyCanary

[Guest]

Let's take Sweden for example. Similar climate and level of club football to Scotland.

The Swedish league. Runs from March to November. That worth a try? 

Swedish national team ranked 24 in the world this summer. Scotland currently ranked 44. 

Worth a go? They qualify for World Cups and work round it. Think outside the box!!!!!

 

[CaleyD]

How about we stop looking everywhere else and start looking at home, talking/listening to the fans here and working towards whatever works best for us?

I should qualify that by saying that if what's best for Scotland happens to be the same as above....great.  Just let's not jump assuming things will work here because they work elsewhere.  I'm also taking it for granted that it works in Sweden and the fans there are happy with it.

Edited October 21, 2018 by CaleyD
Added qualifying line.

[+Gringo]

Good thread this. From my perspective I think Friday night football would ruin it for me. I don't get to many games these days and it will be even less if Friday night football was the norm'. Maybe this is good question to ask the players and managers out there. Would they be happy to play on a Friday night and would they be happy at away matches to have very little or no support? Reading tweets from some of our players after an away Sat match they seem to appreciate the vocal support. I strongly feel that would be lacking on a Friday night. (Lets see how many [from Inverness] make the Ayr game in December as a 'for instance'] As CaleyD mentions, just because it works elsewhere in the world it doesn't mean it would work here and, for me personally, it wouldn't.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CaleyD said:

How about we stop looking everywhere else and start looking at home, talking/listening to the fans here and working towards whatever works best for us?

I should qualify that by saying that if what's best for Scotland happens to be the same as above....great.  Just let's not jump assuming things will work here because they work elsewhere.  I'm also taking it for granted that it works in Sweden and the fans there are happy with it.

Ok. I would say it isn't working here in 2018.

Other industries have moved with the times / customer requirements. Banks open on Saturdays. Shops open on Sundays. Football stuck in the past with July to April/May seasons. 

If the Glasgow bigots aren't for it, it wont happen. 

Personally, I don't often enjoy wrapping up like Ernest Shackleton going to the South Pole to watch football in the winter at TCS. 

[MorayJaggie]

Remember how many matches are postponed due to frozen waterlogged or snowed off every year and then ultimately replayed on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. The winter season does not work. How family friendly it to sit in an exposed stadium to rain wind sleet and or snow as opposed to more Clement weather In  the summer where pre match entertainment can be provided to enhance the experience and create more revenue and be more competitive to families to attend and get youngsters supporting the club.

[CaleyD]

30 minutes ago, Caman said:

Ok. I would say it isn't working here in 2018.

Other industries have moved with the times / customer requirements. Banks open on Saturdays. Shops open on Sundays. Football stuck in the past with July to April/May seasons. 

If the Glasgow bigots aren't for it, it wont happen. 

Personally, I don't often enjoy wrapping up like Ernest Shackleton going to the South Pole to watch football in the winter at TCS. 

I'm not against Summer Football, I'm just not  a fan of going "oh, look what they are doing, if it worked for them it should work for us".

If Scottish Football really wants to know what will work here...ask the people here...create a case for things based on meaningful, relevant data.

It's checking over the fence to see what the neighbours have that landed us with league splits and project brave and the attitude that it's the supporters and clubs who must be screwed up because these things worked elsewhere.

[Scarlet Pimple]

This is a large thread so I'll keep this brief.

Summer football...yes.

But whatever you choose, day or night , at least you can experiment with the hours but the physical weather conditions  would probably not alter that much. However, with global warming being a definite "yes, " then these weather conditions might change radically and, therefore, would an  an afternoon venue in this case not be preferable?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Scarlet Pimple said:

This is a large thread so I'll keep this brief.

Summer football...yes.

But whatever you choose, day or night , at least you can experiment with the hours but the physical weather conditions  would probably not alter that much. However, with global warming being a definite "yes, " then these weather conditions might change radically and, therefore, would an  an afternoon venue in this case not be preferable?

Global warming? Hopefully won't melt the ice cap and wash away the Sneck. If in danger we could always relocate to Milton of Leys!!

Seriously though, without lowering myself to snippy comments about looking over the neighbours fence or whatever - Our football is dying off. Some kind of change is needed.

It isn't a joy to go to TCS in winter. What numptie thought it a good idea to build the main stand facing into the prevailing wind? 

Och, can't be arsed typing anymore. To busy looking in admiration at my neighbours bush. Rose bush that is!!!!

[Gregor]

I would certainly be pro summer football and why not combine that with Friday night games at the same time.