IAN BLACK ?

[Scotty]

Fuller article here: http://sport.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Foo...ss-exile-Black/

"... a source close to the player added: “Ian got asked a question during the team meeting and was told to be honest and that’s all he did. He thinks he is being unfairly punished for telling the truth. Craig Brewster knows Ian wants to play for Caley Thistle. He still has a year left on his contract and is not interested in looking to go anywhere else just now. He is an Inverness player and wants to get back into the team ... He thinks the ball is in the manager’s court and if he wants him back involved, he is fully fit and available for selection.”

sounds like there are a couple of egos in play here and they need their heads banged together !!!

Brewster asked for an opinion and didnt like what he heard or took it too literally, and Black thinks it was unfair to be punished for being 'honest'. As none of us know the context and (very importantly) the tone of the actual conversation, all we can do is speculate who is right and who is wrong, but as mentioned earlier in this thread, there is probably more than enough blame to go around.

I like Black as a player but we all know he has spat out the dummy before and can be a bit of a hothead - as for Brewster, I am no fan of his managerial skills, but at the end of the day, he is the manager (for now) and amongst other things, responsible for the discipline of all players. Like any manager in any business he probably has to bring people back into line from time to time but I am not sure he has the skills to do this in a constructive way. His style seems very combative and autocratic rather than collaborative and that will not work with a lot of people !!! Blackie is one of those who I see as likely to push hard against this style.

Finally, just a thought ... but if the other recent stories coming from the stadium surrounding Rankin, Wyness and others had not happened, and we were in the middle of a run like that which saw him get the MOM award a few months back we might just be taking Brewster's side in this and placing more blame elsewhere ...... but as it is, it just seems like one thing after another and each one amplifies the previous one until we reach the point where many of us have lost all confidence in him. If he cant start showing some positive managerial skills then he does have to go..... and maybe Black does too !

[Guest TinCanFan]

Black'll be away in the summer I reckon.

That's a very thought provoking comment......  And your point is...?

Black will be away in the summer.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

Refer to RiG's post above for the relevance of league position/losing money, it has everything to do with this thread but thankyou for flagging a potential issue there, glad I could clear it up for you.  :003:

What I was objecting to was you linking the Ian Black issue to league position and loss of revenue.  He has only missed one game, where we played OK without him, and,unless he doesn't play again all season, and we lose the majority of our last six games, then I would maintain there is no validity in this argument.  So , despite your poor attempt at sarcasm, you haven't cleared anything up for me.

[Johnboy]

I'm wondering how many times you've seen Ian Black in action this season, Caley Mad in Berks...?

:024:

[Jay_7]

Refer to RiG's post above for the relevance of league position/losing money, it has everything to do with this thread but thankyou for flagging a potential issue there, glad I could clear it up for you.  :003:

What I was objecting to was you linking the Ian Black issue to league position and loss of revenue.  He has only missed one game, where we played OK without him, and,unless he doesn't play again all season, and we lose the majority of our last six games, then I would maintain there is no validity in this argument.  So , despite your poor attempt at sarcasm, you haven't cleared anything up for me.

The Ian Black issue in question comes as a direct result of Brewsters poor relationships with various players who are considered to be the core of the current ICT first team.  This issue in particular is just the latest in a long line of these scenario's.  This, whether you like it or not has been/is detrimental to our league position and therefore and money we recieve at the end of the season.  I sincerely hope that this clearly pressing matter is cleared up for you.  :014:

[Caley Mad In Berks]

I'm wondering how many times you've seen Ian Black in action this season, Caley Mad in Berks...?

:024:

Many fewer than you I am sure JB, because of where I live.  But to answer your question, only 4 times live, and 3 times on Setanta (live). Plus a few highlights.  How is this relevant to the argument?  This thread is not  about how good I think he is, but about the rights and wrongs of his stand off with Brewster, which you will have noticed I have strong view about.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

The Ian Black issue in question comes as a direct result of Brewsters poor relationships with various players who are considered to be the core of the current ICT first team.  This issue in particular is just the latest in a long line of these scenario's.  This, whether you like it or not has been/is detrimental to our league position and therefore and money we recieve at the end of the season.  I sincerely hope that this clearly pressing matter is cleared up for you.  :014:

If you move the goalposts much further they'll be in the Moray Firth.  There are other threads about Brewster's overall management ability etc.  This one's about Black, not the wider issues concerning other players, or problems which you are linking  Black to.  Anyway, I'm bored with this now.  Let's both just hope for an improvement in ICT's fortunes over the rest of the season.  Maybe that's something we can agree on,  or is it?

[sneckfan]

Just heard a bit of sportsound and they said they'll be speaking to Brewster later in the programme about why he's having to show that he's the boss. It then played a small clip of him saying Black made some comments after the Kilmarnock game and he needs to apologise to the rest of the team.

[MissICT]

do you think he'll play for the team again this season??

he was training with the under 19s because he won't train with he main team!!

[Guest Foxy]

has anyone read this evenings highland news about blackie, cant find it on the net, we need to stop worrying he will come through for us Ive asked him to apologise albeit  on this sight and not in person, and i have every faith in him.

[Guest maggotgreen]

No manager of a football club can afford to have his position undermined by his playing staff. I still feel extremely let down by Brewster after he jumped ship last time but I have some sympathy with the position he finds himself in. If you remember back to when Lord Ferg took over at Man U one of the first things he did was to ship out some of the big name players from the previous regime ie Mcgrath, Ince, Whiteside as he felt they had too much influence in the dressing room. If it's good enough for Old Purple Cheeks etc. I suspect I am not the only person posting on this site who does not know Craig Brewster or the type of person/man-manager he is. What I do know is that Ian Black's many excellent performances on the field have often been undermined and outnumbered by a poor disciplinary record and regular degrees of petulance and bad sportsmanship. I doubt very much if anyone posting here knows the full facts of what developed between Brewster and Black after the Kilmarnock game, but the harsh reality is that if Brewster is seen to lose on this issue then it's open season on the manager for any player with an axe to grind. If the manager is forced to leave the club it should be down to results on the field and not at the behest of disaffected employee.

[+Tree]

The whole issue a minority of players sniping in the background has been ongoing for a while and stretches beyond Brewster's reign. CC had some issues with this and felt that he was being undermined by a couple of players. Black seems to be falling into this category at the moment.

I suppose my reading of the situation is that we do not appear to know exactly what was said. If all that was said my Blackie is as quoted he does not want to play for Brewster then this does not explain why he has to make an apology to the team and not just the Manager.

This battle appears to be of the player's making and, irrespective of views on Brewster's current performance and ability to turn things around, now that he has effectively thrown down a challenge to Brewster's authority (players cannot be allowed to pick and choose when they wish to play) then there can only be one winner whilst we have Brewster in charge.

It is interesting that the team's best performance in weeks came on the back of this situation (I may be reading too much into this??)

[clacher_holiday2]

For all you know the players couldve been putting in extra effort for Ian rather than Craig.

I wouldnt read too much into it.

[Caley Stan]

The Black story and the general shambles that is our club these days was discussed on Sportsound tonight, including an interview with Brew which can be heard on BBC sport. 

Gordon Waddell spoke for while about how we managed to go from the SPL team who displayed the most spirit and togetherness to one where every week brings a new story about dressing room unrest. Actually, how did that happen? 

[caley100]

BBC Site:

Brew...

' Ian Black made a comment after the Kilmarnock game and confirmed it at Monday's team meeting," Brewster told BBC Sport.

"There was no fall-out but until he apologises to the rest of the boys he'll be training with the 19s."

The crucial comment is the second line whre the apology is expected to the other players...  did i miss something?  was his comments about the team?

[+dumpmaster]

Brewster interview with Charles Bannerman re Ian Black

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_73...s=1&bbcws=1

[Johnboy]

No manager of a football club can afford to have his position undermined by his playing staff. I still feel extremely let down by Brewster after he jumped ship last time but I have some sympathy with the position he finds himself in. If you remember back to when Lord Ferg took over at Man U one of the first things he did was to ship out some of the big name players from the previous regime ie Mcgrath, Ince, Whiteside as he felt they had too much influence in the dressing room. If it's good enough for Old Purple Cheeks etc. I suspect I am not the only person posting on this site who does not know Craig Brewster or the type of person/man-manager he is. What I do know is that Ian Black's many excellent performances on the field have often been undermined and outnumbered by a poor disciplinary record and regular degrees of petulance and bad sportsmanship. I doubt very much if anyone posting here knows the full facts of what developed between Brewster and Black after the Kilmarnock game, but the harsh reality is that if Brewster is seen to lose on this issue then it's open season on the manager for any player with an axe to grind. If the manager is forced to leave the club it should be down to results on the field and not at the behest of disaffected employee.

Very good post.... I'm a big Blackie fan, and was very disappointed when he was axed for the Aberdeen game....

However....  no one can argue with your bottom line...

[Johnboy]

Brewster interview with Charles Bannerman re Ian Black

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_73...s=1&bbcws=1

I must admit that does put a different slant on this whole unfortunate affair.

[RiG]

That is the point I am disagreeing with.  We can and have in the past replaced important players with others who have been/become better than the player they are replacing.  I also never said it would be easy, just that it can be done. Bobby Mann/Dods being a prime example of when it has been in the past.  Sure you used the Dods/Dargo comparison and yes they haven't really been replaced but look at the players that they themselves replaced and the money we spent to get them.  That is an example of when we have bettered the team and done it within our means and that is the point we can do it.

You seem to be getting caught up in my man u/Caley comparisons.  The only reason man u were used is that is the 1st example of something similar to this situation that came to my head.  I am in no way comparing the two clubs as we are on a different level to them.  But on the level ICT operate we should be able to attract players to do a job for us and improve us as we have done in the past.

You and some others seem to be under the impression that Black is irreplaceable to the team all I am saying is that we have lost players in the past and managed just fine to replace them and Black will be no different, if he goes.

Edit - There was a point somewhere about the players who have been here so long but i'll be damned if I can remember what it was I posted by accident as I had to go out sorry ;)

There is a reason I am getting caught up in the Man Utd/ICT comparison because that is my whole point  :004: I know full well ICT can replace players like other clubs do but the manner and timescale in which we can replace them is vastly different to certain other clubs. That's basically what I am saying - we find it harder than some/most clubs to replace talented players because we won't attract the best and are, for the most part, a stepping stone club.

This is what other managers have been judged on as ICT have seldom lost many important players all at once. Last season you could argue the spine of the team was lost when Dargo, Dods and Brown all left. Have we replaced them? In Browns case yes but the other two I'm not so sure. Through in Rankin as well as Black and perhaps Wyness and these are 5 hugely talented players that ICT were/are very lucky to have and replacing them is going to be **** difficult. We'll just need to see who comes in.

And looking at one of the other threads I see something about Juanjo?  :017:

[Guest Foxy]

I have  checked with my source again this morning, and Brew is panicking because of the publicity this is receiving, Blackie didn't say anything to his team mates it was said to Brew when asked for his opinion in front of his team mates but i must say Very Cleverly done Brew you have allmost everyone believing in you, but not quite, if he pushes blackie far enough he may have to come out with what was really said.

[Johnboy]

I have  checked with my source again this morning, and Brew is panicking because of the publicity this is receiving, Blackie didn't say anything to his team mates it was said to Brew when asked for his opinion in front of his team mates but i must say Very Cleverly done Brew you have allmost everyone believing in you, but not quite, if he pushes blackie far enough he may have to come out with what was really said.

Fooking ****....  :009:

[FortressICT]

We should get a fecking petition or something going to get Brewster out..this is unacceptable, but i bet the board don't care and don't know how we the real fans care or think of what brewster is doing!!

[caley100]

I have  checked with my source again this morning, and Brew is panicking because of the publicity this is receiving, Blackie didn't say anything to his team mates it was said to Brew when asked for his opinion in front of his team mates but i must say Very Cleverly done Brew you have allmost everyone believing in you, but not quite, if he pushes blackie far enough he may have to come out with what was really said.

Well if you know what happemed as you seem to imply, i think you should jump off the high fence you sit on and tell the story as you know it... or are you speculating like the rest of us?

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

Yes. There seems to be lots of supposition and inference around this matter, with very little concrete facts.

A little fact may go a long way here.

[Guest Foxy]

not yet, but i will and my source has even agreed to join our web site and put the correct story on, if blackie is pushed to far.