What Do You Think?

[Joonya]

I was forwarded this e-mail from a friend of mine, and thought that it was worth discussion.

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Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.

[MrsICTFC]

I'm pretty sure this isn't new??

I am all for varying religions etc, I can't tell anyone who or what to believe in. What I do expect though is because I have an understanding and respect for others, that they have the same respect for me. That no one can have the upper hand religion, that no one pushes their views onto others, that no one uses it to justify violence.

[Mick]

a chain email with quotes that were never said and has been running for years, with different variations

Edited June 9, 2009 by Mick

[Renegade]

John Howard's not even the Prime Minister anymore. In fact he losts his seat in the election a couple of years ago.

[Scarlet Pimple]

It is well known that Australia has a different viewpoint on how immigrants from a different culture and with a different religious persuasion should be "encouraged" to behave and/or react in their new environment.

It's a great pity that the dopes in charge here in Canada have not also adopted similar tough views and policies but it has been well understood that an overwhelming desire to win votes from every immigrant of every stripe by kow-tow-ing to their every whim has led, and is leading, to future perceptions by these people that this country can be used by them to earn far higher wages, a higher standard of living,a means to send a lot of money back to their home country and enjoy all the benefits that are available here such as employment insurance, virtually free top-class medical treatment and many many other tremendous advantages without learning English or truly attempting to adapt to the modus operandi OR adopt the precepts on which this country was founded AT ALL.

Examples of this are:

East Indians who insist on wearing a large sword from their waist on the grounds that this is in necessary keeping of their religion. However, anybody else who tried walking around with such a dangerous weapon on their person would be no doubt charged immediately with carrying an offensive weapon.

East Indians who have forced the Government to allow them wear a turban instead of the standard cap in the pursuance of their duties as an RCMP (Federal Police)officer.

Thai individuals who are notorious in this region for buying huge houses , many beautiful, then ruining them by having pot grow ops in the basements. I have seen the inside of two already which were a disgrace. They make hundreds of thousands of dollars by basically refusing to work, or do not want to work, in a day job thus contributing little to the country or the economy etc .

Why does the Government allow almost illiterate persons like this to come in to this country then? Because they know that Canadians do not want to work for low wages in menial work but what they completely fail to understand is that the justice system in this country is a soft as butter and not only do these parasites not go to jail as a result of their activities but get off with a slap on the wrist and immediately think that this is the greatest country in which to continue any kind of illegal activity because the rewards sure beat working in a menial job for a living.

Australia simply recognises the fact that mixing cultures without a very clear understanding amongst all Immigrants that they must conform or stay in their own country , must adapt quickly and they must be able to contribute in a meaningful way to the existing culture and economy is dangerous and can lead to instability and very negative unforeseen consequences.Thus they adopt a hard policy which is designed to ensure the future survival of their hard-fought and won protocols, their rules and regulations,their vision and so on. In fact it is designed to stop the possibility of future trouble arising -- not to take advantage of Immigrants . Where the trouble lies in lax control and not enforcing strict regulations regarding language etc is simply that these Immigrants for the most part have no desire whatsoever to assimilate or blend in on anybody's terms other than their own. Then their whining voices arise above the quiet majority, fomenting trouble under the false accusation of discrimination because they perceive that the Government cannot be bothered to stop this rot and will put up with all kinds of such protests under the excuse of "we must allow free speech and the right to demonstrate and so on" because they are well fed, lazy buzzarrds who want to fiddle whilst Toronto burns.

We have a suburb here, for example, where the street signs are all in Chinese--a classic example of the Municipal Councillors , desperate for the popular vote, kow-towing to the majority of the populace who happen to be of Chinese origin in that suburb. Do you think that there is the slightest chance of a Caucasian getting elected in this area --none whatsoever.

We also have thousands of Tamil Immigrants totally disrupting traffic by demonstrating in the streets of our major city demanding that our freely elected Government spend their time, money and energy making all kinds of representations to everybody and their Grannie in the world even if that means that more important issues of a Canadian persusasion are placed on the back burner so to speak. Why is there a perception amongst these minority groups that Canadians should assist them to take the troubles they left behind in their former home countries to Canada and join them in promoting their stresses, hatreds and screaming and shouting just because we arranged for them to come here PRESUMABLY to offer them a better life than what they have left behind. The whole thing is becoming almost a siege for persons of so-called Anglo-Saxons or Caucasian descent. Mosques are springing up all over the country and so on and so forth.

Australians are smart and I hope they succeed. PERIOD!

[Glebeict]

Geez my family has been in Canada for + 200 years and we still wear tartan , sing jacobite songs , drink whisky,

and can say how are you etc in gaelic. Of course the Scots have run Canada for most of its short history.

[Canada Bob]

Geez my family has been in Canada for + 200 years and we still wear tartan , sing jacobite songs , drink whisky,and can say how are you etc in gaelic. Of course the Scots have run Canada for most of its short history.

Yea but, No but, the difference is, while the Scots may have done their own thing, they haven't insisted that everyone else falls in line, nor have they insisted on "McEwans Law" or any such shyte.

Like the Italians, the Greeks, Germans, Dutch, Ukrainians and the like the Scots haven't tried to tell everyone else which end is up, for the most part we leave that to the French, but at least they "stay home", and the rest of us just ignore them.

I'm not against the "immigrants" as long as they leave their fekkin' troubles at home, like the rest of us they'd be better off leaving all that baggage in their homeland rather than infesting Canada with their Medieval attitudes.

The problem is, the WASP lives in an age of "enlightenment" where maybe, just maybe we have too much freedom, whilst Muslems are still in the very Dark Ages where they can't afford a voice of their own, not if they expect to maintain a connection between their heads and their r soles...

It's one of those cases where two worlds have collided, and it's ours that's coming off the worst, we are being overrun and over ruled in our own lands by a primitive and dangerous tribes..

Far as I can see the days of the WASP are drawing to an end, we'll be a back number in 100 years.

I could see it coming 40 years ago when the first waves came over, dozens of them sleeping in the same house, opening shops, sleeping with our food and eating our women, glad I got out...

If Enoch Powell was alive today... he'd be turning in his grave...

Edited June 10, 2009 by Yngwie
See PM

[Oz647]

I must agree with all that is said above. Howard may not be the Prime Minister anymore but what he is said is spot on. I am not a religious man in any shape or form but I firmly believe that you have the right to believe in which ever God(s) you wish. You have the right to worship in any way that you wish unless it infringes on other's beliefs and rights. If part of your belief is that this country is not right for you and your religion then go back to the country you came from. Do not try to change the rules here to sort your needs (sharia law). There also seems to be 2 different rules regarding expressing our beliefs. It is ok for muslims to stand and protest our troops when they parade through the streets but if any british dare to speak their minds they are arrested for breach of the peace and unlawful demonstrations. We have ex forces living on the streets yet immigrants get houses and all the benifits they can handle. Howard said if you don't like it get out, I wish our muppets would do the same. On the news today, there was a suspected terrorist who had a control order on him. He stated that all he wanted to do now was leave this country. He couldn't because the police had his paperwork. I say give him his paperwork, give him a one way ticket and let him go back to his wonderful country. Put a banning order to stop him coming back and see if he is happy then.

He won't go because he is probably enjoying benifits handed to him on a plate.

Anyway, rant over. I'm sure this rant will recieve replies that agree and those that don't. I will respect both because you have that right.

[Canada Bob]

Hello Yngwie...

No problem with the edit, other than to say that it shows how far these b*ggers have pushed us back in our own country that we can't even say anything {amongst ourselves} that may offend them.

Few of us were offended when we had jokes about "an Englishman, Irishman and a Scotsman".

Did the Welsh get hot and bothered about being called Taff's, did anyone ever think it was a criminal act to call a bloke a Limey's, or a Paddy or a Jock ? For the most part we just took it in our stride. Same thing with folks from Lancashire and Yorkshire, we had a laugh ribbing each other, same thing in Wigan where Rugby Fans take the *iss out of Football Fans, while buying each other a pint.

Odd how when the Germans wanted to "take over" the UK they were demonsied, we even had folks in Government Depts thinking up the most vile and derogatory names for them. We didn't mind dropping bombs on them, setting their men, women and children on fire, or bayonetting them. Why was it OK then, but not now ? did the Germans present more of a threat to our heritage and our culture than the Muslems ? did the Germans want to take more off us than the Muslems are intent on ?

Yet 20 years or so after all that, when the next tribe comes along, with cultural, social and radical religious values that disrespect our own heritage, we can't even raise our voices against them, let alone put them to the sword. So what's changed in 60 years ? why was it OK to kill Germans but it's become a criminal offence to speak out against Islam ?

One thing I want to get straight, I'm no racist, I regularly attend a church over here where a typical service has 3-400 in the congretation, 80% or more of them Black. I'm also in the choir, being one of the first white men to ever join the choir since the church was formed {by slaves who escaped from the US} around 160 years ago.

To be honest I'd be hard pressed to find a better group of folks, they are hard working, good company and they have a great sense of humour that I test many a time. I don't have to measure my words to them, in fact I do quite the opposite, and all they do is laugh, they know I'm just winding them up. So it's not about Race, but it can be about Creed, yet we have shown that we can tolerate different creeds, think about it, can you think of a religion that isn't in the UK ! The problem comes when Islam starts to think, teach and promote JiHad.

Have you any idea how many thousand Muslems in the UK speak EVIL about the rest of us, and by that I don't mean name calling, many of them would cut your throats.

Make no bones about it, they plan to fly the flag of Islam over Scotland one day, and part of the plan is to mute the voice of those who would oppose them. What would Wallace make of that !!! that his countrymen have been made impotent by Islam, they cannae raise their voice, let alone the sword... What you don't Protect, you lose...

Am I glad that I won't live to see these days, even more so that I "escaped" to Canada, they don't shut me up here, nor do they when I'm back in the UK. I'll no be shut up by a Government that don't have the balls to protect our country and its heritage, nor will my mouth be bridled by a bunch of wet and droopy liberals, a spade still looks like a spade to me.

I only wish that this lot had tried it on 70 years ago, me dad and his regiment would have known what to do...

Edited June 10, 2009 by Canada Bob

[Johnboy]

Can't remember where I first came across this - if it's been posted on here already, I apologise...

[Caley Stan]

It's ironic that all this scaremongering is coming from Australians and Canadians - two nations that were built by immigrants who killed most of the indigenous population and imposed their culture on the few that remained.

I don't believe that there is some kind of grand plan to impose Sharia law on the western world. It strikes me that the overwhelming majority of Muslims living in this country practice their religion discreetly and don't seek to impose it on the rest of society. The video on muslim demographics, that Bob and Johnboy have posted links to, doesn't take account of this. It just bombards you with statistics while using the words 'muslim' and 'immigration' repeatedly in a way that seeks to scare people without any justification. The video ends with a call to action, but it doesn't say what action. Somebody who is taking action, action to dispel some of the myths about Islam and to bring peace between Islam and west, is

[Joonya]

It really does make interesting viewing Johnboy, and yes it has already been posted.

You dont even have to go back 60 years to see how times have changed.

When I was in school, the teacher wrote on the black board, not the chalk board. In secondary school, it was a white board, not a pen board.

They have taken the goliwog of jars of robinsons jam

A lady in the west midlands was all over the news a few years go because she had goliwogs on display - she was told to take them away yet the white dolls were allowed to stay! Can you belive that?

Look at comedy acts - bernard manning was well known for his sexist and racist jibes, yet Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence, can all say what they like.

As was said earlier, muslims and islamic radicals can block main roads for a protest and nothing is said, yet local councils hate to have any sort of christian parade without these folk fighting tooth and nail.

The list goes on, and on, and on, and on, and I think more countries should stand up for their culture and heritage.

On the news today, there was a suspected terrorist who had a control order on him. He stated that all he wanted to do now was leave this country. He couldn't because the police had his paperwork. I say give him his paperwork, give him a one way ticket and let him go back to his wonderful country. Put a banning order to stop him coming back and see if he is happy then

:015: :017: :clapping02:

[SMEE]

The Problem isnt Muslims.....it is the Extremists. I watched a program, about how many of such people practicing the religion, interpret the words of the Qur'an to meet there own ends. When in fact, it teaches peace and tolerance etc! The people responsible for this are wired to the moon...quite simple!

And to these people....we (the western world) are viewed as Scum! Now that IS true Racism!

[Glebeict]

There are over 1 million " native Canadians "

They were subject to Church schools at one time - an attempt to change their culture.

That has all changed now , though most still live on Reservations in poor conditions.

[starchief]

The vast majority of Muslims (the absolute vast majority) don't want to turn the UK in to some ultra Islamic country. As for Christians minding their own business and WASPs being 'enlightened' - ever heard of World War II? Burning witches? Stopping ferries running on Sundays? Which country had the holocaust? Christian or Islamic? Which country developed nuclear weapons? Christian or Islamic? Which country sailed the seven seas violently converting their landed country? Christian or Islamic?

Muslims living in the dark ages?! Rarely have I heard something more ridiculous. Unless you consider Scotland and the entire world as 'the dark ages'. You think the local newsagents serves you newspapers, then makes the evil eye behind you as they secretly prepare their dirty bomb? Nonsense! I grew up hearing that about Catholics. Oppress someone and they'll feel oppressed.

And take a look at what Britain was like in the dark ages, then you'll see true oppression. Nothing like most Muslim countries.

I regularly have a laugh with 'non-whites' over what some might deem taboo subjects. Probably because I laugh 'with' them. Persecuting a minority in the way that comedians like Manning did isn't going to make me laugh and it sure ain't going to raise a smile on their faces either.

Go along to a radical mosque as the only white person and see how harmless you find people denouncing you through sheer ignorance is. I'm sure they'll have a laugh at making you feel so insecure, will you?

"they plan to fly the flag of Islam over Scotland one day" - again, utter b*lls. Which Western country has Islam invaded in the last 500 years? Now answer which Islamic country has the West invaded over the last 10 years! You do the maths.

To judge people by their religion is patently ridiculous. What does a Christian believe in? Killing people for cutting the sides of their hair? The expansion of Israel at all costs? Women as inferior beings? Witchcraft as a reality that should be exorcised by brutal death? Some of them.

What does a Muslim believe? That women can choose to cover up or not? That selfless sacrifice to his fellow man is his true calling? That al Quaeda is fundamentally wrong? That people should have absolute freedom to choose their own religion? Some of them.

Most are somewhere in between.

But if you're going to choose an extreme poverty ridden country like Afghanistan as your measure of Islam, then please do the same with Christianity and choose somewhere like the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Lord's Army.

[Canada Bob]

There are over 1 million " native Canadians " They were subject to Church schools at one time - an attempt to change their culture. That has all changed now , though most still live on Reservations in poor conditions.

It's easy to look back 50 or a 100 years and cringe at what happened to the native peoples of Canada in the church schools. At the time they were taken away from villages where TB was rife, education was non existent, and poverty was worse then than it is now for the vast majority of them. I'm well aware that some lousy b*stards made their lives a misery in these church schools, but the same thing was going on in scores of other institutional schools where orphans and kids from poor WASP famies went, so the natives weren't on their own, those times were very different to our way of thinking today.

As for the natives still being poor, well, no doubt many of them are, but far as I know they are the only people in this land that don't pay any taxes at all, add to that the Government of Canada hands our hundreds of Millions a year to the tribal elders, and in many instances that's as far as the money goes.

If an Indian gets a job {and many of them do} they take home every penny that they earn, when they but a house, or furniture, or clothes, or a car or gas to put in it they get the lot tax free, I wish I was treated the same.

That arguement about "it was their land first" is bollocks, maye they were here before the WASPS, but they were slaughtering each other for thousands of years before we arrived, and when they knocked off some other tribe that was the end of it, they took all that they could, and the land went with it. If those "ground rules" were fine before we arrived, what the bollocks are they moaning about when the tide turns against them ? yer not thinking that Chingachcook {Last of the Mohegans} got a war pension from the Huron when they wiped his tribe out, and so on.

Here's something for you, we have a Constitution here in Canada {the UK is still working on one}, the basis of our Constitution is that "all men are equal", and that's how it should be. Yet everyone in Canada pays their taxes, Indians don't, claiming rights signed up 2-300 years ago, but the matter of the fact is, those Historic Treaties aren't worth the parchment they are written on, because the content isn't Constitutional, but the Canadain Government is so afraid of the Indians that it lefts them do as they please, and it pays them to do it.

Right now the local Indian Band is paying 15c {that's 9p} for a litre of gas, so it's not the cost of a car or the running of it that makes them poor...

Put it this way, General Wolfe was a Freemason, it was down to him that Canada is the way it is today, so would it be right is just after the battle he got a Treaty written up with the King saying that no one in his "tribe" would EVER pay taxes !

Indians benefit from every mile of road in Canada, every library, school, hospital, fire truck, police force, and so on, everything that the rest of us pay for is "free" to them, how raw is that deal ?

The real problem for the Indians is the hand outs from the Government, this "free money" keeps many of them on the reserves, where unemployment is 30-40%, yet the better educated who leave the reserves and make their own money live a better life, unemployment in their ranks aint much different to any other section of society.

Like the Muslems, it's not about race, it's about what's fair, and to my way of thinking is someone is hissing up yer back, it's not fair. Yet if we complain about it, we are Bad People...

The problem with Muslems and Indians is, they haven't got to grips with the 20th Century, let alone the 21st Century. They both want it all their own way and if not, all hell breaks lose, you don't see either of them making concessions or considerations to the rest of us.

Animal Farm all over again, "we are all equal, but some are more equal than others"...

Edited June 11, 2009 by Canada Bob

[Canada Bob]

The vast majority of Muslims (the absolute vast majority) don't want to turn the UK in to some ultra Islamic country.

It's no more than a matter of opinion debating "what they want", we don't have a crystal ball, nor are we mindreaders, but here's what Golonel Gadafy has to say on the subject...

The grand old dictator of Libya has a simple theory for the conquest of Europe, one that requires no bloodshed. He claims that they don't need homicide bombers or Jihad fighters or military equipment at all. No need to blow up planes over Lockerbie in Scotland, just let nature take its course.

The muslim population ofEurope today stands at around 52 million and that figure is expected to double to 104 million within two decades, so allowing natural fertility rates to work,

Europe will become an Islamic nation.

Since 1990, about 90% of all immigration has been Muslim.

It is estimated that Germany will be Islamic by 2015 if current trends continue.

The Netherlands will be a 50% muslim country within 15 years, and Belgium by 2025. Even Russia will be 50% Muslim around 2050.The only way for Europe to avoid becoming Eurabia (in my humble opinion), is to severely limit muslim immigration and to start charging a "breeding tax" for muslims.

Mind you, it won't be all good news for the Muslems though, the corner shops will cop it, no need for razor blades, cigs, Penthouse, The Sun, Star, Mirror, you'll be cancelling the Radio Times too, there'll be no be time for the telly when yer down at the Mosque 5 times a day. You'll no be starting yer day with bacon an' eggs either, nor will there be a pork chop for yer tea, you'll be having a bowl of couscous to start yer day off, and think yerself lucky...

As for Christians minding their own business and WASPs being 'enlightened' - ever heard of World War II? Burning witches? Stopping ferries running on Sundays? Which country had the holocaust? Christian or Islamic? Which country developed nuclear weapons? Christian or Islamic? Which country sailed the seven seas violently converting their landed country? Christian or Islamic?

And while all this was happening the Muslems were just brewing up hey ? take a look at their Fixture list for the last 1400 years.

Peace & Harmony, I think not...

I'll bet they have killed as many as Christians have in that time, and as an EW bet, if they haven't they've had a bloody good go at it...

That was then, this is now, who do you think is blowing each other up right now in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan and elsewhere right now ?

Muslims living in the dark ages?! Rarely have I heard something more ridiculous.

Try coming back as a Muslem woman then, or better still a Gay...

16 year old girl hanged...

Executed for becoming a Christian...

Death sentence for being Raped !!!

Girl stoned to Death !!!

Stoning's alright, even in Denmark...

Let's not leave the Gays out of it...

and on it goes... seems to me they are a nice bunch, I'm hoping some of them will move in next door.

Unless you consider Scotland and the entire world as 'the dark ages'.

Maybe we should compare Scotland to Afghanistan to figure out who's still in the Dark Ages...

You think the local newsagents serves you newspapers, then makes the evil eye behind you as they secretly prepare their dirty bomb? Nonsense! I grew up hearing that about Catholics. Oppress someone and they'll feel oppressed.

Put it this way, the WASPS have the bomb, and they don't want to use it on anyone, the Muslems don't have it [yet} but if ever they do et their hands on it, then the UK better look out, and don't think it would bother them knowing that they'd be blowing thousands of their own up, they are going to Alah, we're be dust in the streets...

And take a look at what Britain was like in the dark ages, then you'll see true oppression. Nothing like most Muslim countries.

So them Muslem Wars and the atrocities of Darfour now are nowt to do with them hey ?

I regularly have a laugh with 'non-whites' over what some might deem taboo subjects. Probably because I laugh 'with' them. Persecuting a minority in the way that comedians like Manning did isn't going to make me laugh and it sure ain't going to raise a smile on their faces either.

Bernard Manning hey, odd how folks think that his stage persona was how he was in life, I know different...

Go along to a radical mosque as the only white person and see how harmless you find people denouncing you through sheer ignorance is. I'm sure they'll have a laugh at making you feel so insecure, will you?

I doubt that you'll believe it, but I've been to the main Mosque in Bolton many a time, on me own too, that turned their heads, have to say that I was treated with regard and respect, even though I had a vigorous debate with them, as to why they were so quiet when the Ken Bigley was beheaded.

I've also met up with the young radicals from Lancaster University 3 years ago, spent a lot of time "debating" with them, but came to the conclusion that they are potentially a bad lot, a dangerous lot, a group that I'd be surprised if MI5 isn't watching.

"they plan to fly the flag of Islam over Scotland one day" - again, utter b*lls. Which Western country has Islam invaded in the last 500 years?

Err, Spain, Portugal Scicily, Sardinia, MaltaBosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, southern Ukraine, Moldova, what is now Greece, Serbia, parts of Croatia and Hungary and a good bit of France before they got kicked out... Might not be a good idea to wait until they are crossing the Tweed before you figure out what's going on.

Now answer which Islamic country has the West invaded over the last 10 years! You do the maths.

Err, Bosnia comes to mind, my mates son went there to stop the Serbians killing the Muslems, I note that no one went from Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Iran to bail their own side out. I guess we could add Darfour, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on, where maybe, just maybe, Tony B Liar conned us as to why we went to war, but that don't devalue the lads and lassies who went there in good faith, not just serving King & Country, but homestly believing they were there to help the people of these countries. I'm proud of the folks who have served, they didn't go to "invade" they went with good intent, putting their lives on the line, and many of them never seeing home again.

To judge people by their religion is patently ridiculous.

Mention that when you visit Saudi Arabia, fact is, because of your religion {or lack of it, meaning I doubt you're a Muslem}, they won't even let you into the country, unless you have a work permit.

Then again, you could sneak in through the bad lands, but don't be taking a Bible with you, it's a crime punishable with flogging and a lengthy time inside, but you'd have time to mention to them how "ridiculous" they are, juding people on their religion. What you're missing is, it supposed to cut both ways...

What does a Christian believe in? Killing people for cutting the sides of their hair? The expansion of Israel at all costs? Women as inferior beings? Witchcraft as a reality that should be exorcised by brutal death? Some of them.

Can't follow some of what your saying above, do you actually know anyone who thinks or acts like that ? I think you've got yer threads crossed when you speak of women being inferior beings, yer on the rang horse...

What does a Muslim believe? That women can choose to cover up or not? That selfless sacrifice to his fellow man is his true calling? That al Quaeda is fundamentally wrong? That people should have absolute freedom to choose their own religion? Some of them.

Aye, but it only takes one to light a fuse...

Most are somewhere in between.

Agreed...

But if you're going to choose an extreme poverty ridden country like Afghanistan as your measure of Islam, then please do the same with Christianity and choose somewhere like the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Lord's Army.

I'll have a few bob on DROC, the country is potentailly on of the richest in Africa, the only reason they are in the shyte is due to tribalism and incursions from neighbouring countries. They have been killing each other for 10 or more years now, around 5 Million people killed in tribal and other clashes, how you can blame Christianity for that gawd only knows, add to that they have one of the highest literacy rates in the whole of Africa, as many as 80% of them are fluent in French, and are able to read and write.

By the way, The Lords Army did most of their damage in Uganda, the remnants of them are now hiding out in the Congo.

As for Afghanistan, only 43% of the men can barely read and write their OWN language, and only 12.6% of girls can read. I'd venture to say that Islam hasn't shed much "enlightenment" here in the last 1,500 years...

You could also look at the mortality rate of newborns, it's about 80 per 1,000 in Congo, it's over 150 per thousand in Afghanistan. After that, the rest of the figures can't really tell you which is the better country, as both have been knee deep in conflict, but at the end of the day if I had to chose between them it would be a no brainer...

Edited June 11, 2009 by Canada Bob

[Johnboy]

Mind you, it won't be all good news for the Muslems though, the corner shops will cop it, no need for razor blades, cigs, Penthouse, The Sun, Star, Mirror, you'll be cancelling the Radio Times too, there'll be no be time for the telly when yer down at the Mosque 5 times a day. You'll no be starting yer day with bacon an' eggs either, nor will there be a pork chop for yer tea, you'll be having a bowl of couscous to start yer day off, and think yerself lucky...

No bacon & eggs or pork chops?

That's it then.... The muslims have to be stopped in their tracks right now.

[Canada Bob]

What is it about people now? We've always got someone to fear.

Looking back over the last 5,000 years seeing one war after another it might raise some concerns

The way some people are going on and on, you'd think there was a Muslim extremist behind every tree, just lurking in the shadows to blow up some poor white guy.

Peace in our times then is it ? that horse dint run too well last time out, add to that, how would you feel if a member of your family had been one of the 52 people killed in the bombings in London ? how soon we forget hey. As to 'folks were lurking behind trees,' if you knew what MI5 knew then you might have a different opinion...

Up to 8,000 suspected al-Qa'ida sympathisers are being investigated by MI5 and the police in an operation to identify future terrorists, The Independent has learned.

The huge covert inquiry, known as project Rich Picture, is aimed at finding people who are being groomed for terrorism, and at identifying the Islamist extremists carrying out the recruitment.

The nationwide investigation follows intelligence suggesting there is a small, but significant number of British-born and Britain-based Muslims, who are prepared to carry out bombings and other terrorist attacks in this country.

8,000 al-Qa'ida sympathisers hey, that's equal to 2 Regiments !!!

I'm not a fan of religion, but if a big chunk of the country become Muslim, and they aint causing any trouble, so what?

Try walking down the getto streets of Bolton or Burnley then, many areas have been no go areas for years, if yer white that is...

In broad daylight !!!

I don't care what people's religion is, as long as you shut up about it and keep it to yourself.

I guess you don't live on the same street as a Mosque/Minaret then, you'll no need an alarm clock if you do.

Sure a small bunch of Muslims are nuts

A small number of Germans were nuts too, look how that finished up, an even smaller number of the Irish were also nuts, look how many lives that's cost, but 8,000 aint a small number.

(and that goes with every religion), and they should be dealt with accordingly, like that bloke with the hook.

Yea, the Government were right on the ball there hey, they did a real good job...

In the "dark ages" whilst people in Scotland were painting their faces blue and living in the trees, Iraq had invented the number 0 and had the biggest library in the world. Some Muslims may still be in the so-called "dark ages", but it's pretty clear that some people in the western world are even further behind.

Heard it all before, how the Romans and everyone else didn't understand the concept of "zero", it might make interesting veiwing on the Discovery Channel, but just because you want to believe it, it don't make it true.

The fact is, the concept of zero and symbols for zero were around LONG before Islam "after timed it"

the Romans, Chinese, Indian Sanskrit, Greeks even the Mayan in times BC fully appreciated the concept, so Islam "has nowt back" for their claim, one of scores that they like us to swallow.

As to folks making spelling mistakes, would that disqualify the comments or concerns of a man ?

It's no Homework that we're handing in, having said that, the general standard of composition in here is equal to, if not better than what gets a pass mark in Universities these day.

It's not the high road either to attempt to ridicule a man just because he doesn't see the world the way you see it. But it's a card oft played by folks who simply want to shut an opponent up.

Odd how you say that you can tolerate a mans religion but complain if he makes a spelling mistake...

Edited June 11, 2009 by Canada Bob

[Glebeict]

don't know about the rest of you but i find it hilarious that the add above this thread is for the international muslim

matrimonials site

[Renegade]

Oh well that's me told. I better never go in a newsagents or even outside again cause I might die!

[Canada Bob]

Oh well that's me told. I better never go in a newsagents or even outside again cause I might die!

Nae offence meant Renegade, I don't take it that seriously, a fair bit of it's tongue in cheek, having said that it's a bit of a challenge to practice our wit against one another, and to calibrate our beliefs against reality, but it's all "ore a pint" sort of thing far as I'm concerned... No doubt we sound more serious than we intend to be at times, that's 'cause we don't see the glint in the other fella's eye, and we don't hear the key winding us up...

I think this topic has been run to ground now, so chuck something else at us, let's see what's next on the menu

Canada Bob.

[DAM]

The vast majority of Muslims (the absolute vast majority) don't want to turn the UK in to some ultra Islamic country.

It's no more than a matter of opinion debating "what they want", we don't have a crystal ball, nor are we mindreaders, but here's what Golonel Gadafy has to say on the subject...

The grand old dictator of Libya has a simple theory for the conquest of Europe, one that requires no bloodshed. He claims that they don't need homicide bombers or Jihad fighters or military equipment at all. No need to blow up planes over Lockerbie in Scotland, just let nature take its course.

The muslim population ofEurope today stands at around 52 million and that figure is expected to double to 104 million within two decades, so allowing natural fertility rates to work,

Europe will become an Islamic nation.

Since 1990, about 90% of all immigration has been Muslim.

It is estimated that Germany will be Islamic by 2015 if current trends continue.

The Netherlands will be a 50% muslim country within 15 years, and Belgium by 2025. Even Russia will be 50% Muslim around 2050.The only way for Europe to avoid becoming Eurabia (in my humble opinion), is to severely limit muslim immigration and to start charging a "breeding tax" for muslims.

Mind you, it won't be all good news for the Muslems though, the corner shops will cop it, no need for razor blades, cigs, Penthouse, The Sun, Star, Mirror, you'll be cancelling the Radio Times too, there'll be no be time for the telly when yer down at the Mosque 5 times a day. You'll no be starting yer day with bacon an' eggs either, nor will there be a pork chop for yer tea, you'll be having a bowl of couscous to start yer day off, and think yerself lucky...

As for Christians minding their own business and WASPs being 'enlightened' - ever heard of World War II? Burning witches? Stopping ferries running on Sundays? Which country had the holocaust? Christian or Islamic? Which country developed nuclear weapons? Christian or Islamic? Which country sailed the seven seas violently converting their landed country? Christian or Islamic?

And while all this was happening the Muslems were just brewing up hey ? take a look at their Fixture list for the last 1400 years.

Peace & Harmony, I think not...

I'll bet they have killed as many as Christians have in that time, and as an EW bet, if they haven't they've had a bloody good go at it...

That was then, this is now, who do you think is blowing each other up right now in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan and elsewhere right now ?

Muslims living in the dark ages?! Rarely have I heard something more ridiculous.

Try coming back as a Muslem woman then, or better still a Gay...

16 year old girl hanged...

Executed for becoming a Christian...

Death sentence for being Raped !!!

Girl stoned to Death !!!

Stoning's alright, even in Denmark...

Let's not leave the Gays out of it...

and on it goes... seems to me they are a nice bunch, I'm hoping some of them will move in next door.

Unless you consider Scotland and the entire world as 'the dark ages'.

Maybe we should compare Scotland to Afghanistan to figure out who's still in the Dark Ages...

You think the local newsagents serves you newspapers, then makes the evil eye behind you as they secretly prepare their dirty bomb? Nonsense! I grew up hearing that about Catholics. Oppress someone and they'll feel oppressed.

Put it this way, the WASPS have the bomb, and they don't want to use it on anyone, the Muslems don't have it [yet} but if ever they do et their hands on it, then the UK better look out, and don't think it would bother them knowing that they'd be blowing thousands of their own up, they are going to Alah, we're be dust in the streets...

And take a look at what Britain was like in the dark ages, then you'll see true oppression. Nothing like most Muslim countries.

So them Muslem Wars and the atrocities of Darfour now are nowt to do with them hey ?

I regularly have a laugh with 'non-whites' over what some might deem taboo subjects. Probably because I laugh 'with' them. Persecuting a minority in the way that comedians like Manning did isn't going to make me laugh and it sure ain't going to raise a smile on their faces either.

Bernard Manning hey, odd how folks think that his stage persona was how he was in life, I know different...

Go along to a radical mosque as the only white person and see how harmless you find people denouncing you through sheer ignorance is. I'm sure they'll have a laugh at making you feel so insecure, will you?

I doubt that you'll believe it, but I've been to the main Mosque in Bolton many a time, on me own too, that turned their heads, have to say that I was treated with regard and respect, even though I had a vigorous debate with them, as to why they were so quiet when the Ken Bigley was beheaded.

I've also met up with the young radicals from Lancaster University 3 years ago, spent a lot of time "debating" with them, but came to the conclusion that they are potentially a bad lot, a dangerous lot, a group that I'd be surprised if MI5 isn't watching.

"they plan to fly the flag of Islam over Scotland one day" - again, utter b*lls. Which Western country has Islam invaded in the last 500 years?

Err, Spain, Portugal Scicily, Sardinia, MaltaBosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, southern Ukraine, Moldova, what is now Greece, Serbia, parts of Croatia and Hungary and a good bit of France before they got kicked out... Might not be a good idea to wait until they are crossing the Tweed before you figure out what's going on.

Now answer which Islamic country has the West invaded over the last 10 years! You do the maths.

Err, Bosnia comes to mind, my mates son went there to stop the Serbians killing the Muslems, I note that no one went from Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Iran to bail their own side out. I guess we could add Darfour, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan and so on, where maybe, just maybe, Tony B Liar conned us as to why we went to war, but that don't devalue the lads and lassies who went there in good faith, not just serving King & Country, but homestly believing they were there to help the people of these countries. I'm proud of the folks who have served, they didn't go to "invade" they went with good intent, putting their lives on the line, and many of them never seeing home again.

To judge people by their religion is patently ridiculous.

Mention that when you visit Saudi Arabia, fact is, because of your religion {or lack of it, meaning I doubt you're a Muslem}, they won't even let you into the country, unless you have a work permit.

Then again, you could sneak in through the bad lands, but don't be taking a Bible with you, it's a crime punishable with flogging and a lengthy time inside, but you'd have time to mention to them how "ridiculous" they are, juding people on their religion. What you're missing is, it supposed to cut both ways...

What does a Christian believe in? Killing people for cutting the sides of their hair? The expansion of Israel at all costs? Women as inferior beings? Witchcraft as a reality that should be exorcised by brutal death? Some of them.

Can't follow some of what your saying above, do you actually know anyone who thinks or acts like that ? I think you've got yer threads crossed when you speak of women being inferior beings, yer on the rang horse...

What does a Muslim believe? That women can choose to cover up or not? That selfless sacrifice to his fellow man is his true calling? That al Quaeda is fundamentally wrong? That people should have absolute freedom to choose their own religion? Some of them.

Aye, but it only takes one to light a fuse...

Most are somewhere in between.

Agreed...

But if you're going to choose an extreme poverty ridden country like Afghanistan as your measure of Islam, then please do the same with Christianity and choose somewhere like the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Lord's Army.

I'll have a few bob on DROC, the country is potentailly on of the richest in Africa, the only reason they are in the shyte is due to tribalism and incursions from neighbouring countries. They have been killing each other for 10 or more years now, around 5 Million people killed in tribal and other clashes, how you can blame Christianity for that gawd only knows, add to that they have one of the highest literacy rates in the whole of Africa, as many as 80% of them are fluent in French, and are able to read and write.

By the way, The Lords Army did most of their damage in Uganda, the remnants of them are now hiding out in the Congo.

As for Afghanistan, only 43% of the men can barely read and write their OWN language, and only 12.6% of girls can read. I'd venture to say that Islam hasn't shed much "enlightenment" here in the last 1,500 years...

You could also look at the mortality rate of newborns, it's about 80 per 1,000 in Congo, it's over 150 per thousand in Afghanistan. After that, the rest of the figures can't really tell you which is the better country, as both have been knee deep in conflict, but at the end of the day if I had to chose between them it would be a no brainer...

Excellent post Bob and it's all fact. I have lived in the Middle East - I know the score.

[CaleyD]

Talking of Australian MP's, did anyone see the snippet on "Have I got News for You" the other night with the guy who was making a total mess of reading out his speech and then finished with a line about Genetically Modified Orgasms?

:sad01: