Is Butcher the Man for the Job?

[Croylo]

hard to believe that Renegade is blaming butcher for Relegation when his beloved tokely got himself sent off! also criticising him for playing fraser who is now no1 for county! It wasn't that long ago that we were on that unbeaten run that county are now enjoying, and i still have happy memories of dancing on the pitch when we won promotion. Personally i beleive we should keep him for as long as we can, without him we would have had none of the irish lads and ask Andrew shinnie if he ruled with an iron fist when he visited him in hospital. you have short memories and even shorter fuses.

[Renegade]

hard to believe that Renegade is blaming butcher for Relegation when his beloved tokely got himself sent off!

You fail you mention that I did say that "most of the damage was done under Brewster", while Tokely had been playing centre-half for some weeks previously, Mihadjuks was playing in a position he'd never played before in the clubs most important game ever. Surely playing Mihadjuks and Tokely in their natural positions would've made more sense, no?

also criticising him for playing fraser who is now no1 for county!

Oh wow! Number one at County! He must be some sort of Peter Schmeichel/Oliver Kahn/*insert great goalkeeper here* hybrid! No doubt County will be declining bids from Barcelona, AC Milan and tons of other major clubs come January!

In all seriousness though, is it logical to go with a poorer goalkeeper to the one on the bench for the club's most important game ever and the couple beforehand once Esson had come back from suspension? Of course not. And it's even more ridiculous when you consider that Michael Fraser had already signed a pre-contract with Motherwell. It was an utterly ludicrous and decisive decision.

It wasn't that long ago that we were on that unbeaten run that county are now enjoying

County are close to doubling the amount of unbeaten games that ICT did, which also includes games in the SPL and would be even longer had they not been gubbed by Hamilton earlier in the season. It's also an unbeaten run that has included Grant Munro almost in it's entirety and now includes Ross Tokely. Butcher punting Munro was the best thing that ever happened to County. But you and your ilk would probably find some way of praising him for that as well!

and i still have happy memories of dancing on the pitch when we won promotion.

Cool story bro.....albeit a little camp.

Personally i beleive we should keep him for as long as we can,

Even if the club is hurtling towards relegation?

without him we would have had none of the irish lads

Wow the Irish lads. Brewster had some good signings as well, should he have kept his job just because of that? I bet you probably did!

ask Andrew shinnie if he ruled with an iron fist when he visited him in hospital.

Don't really see how the two are related to be honest.

you have short memories and even shorter fuses.

Short memories no - I have acknowledged the good times under Butcher, but they cannot justify his staying hin the job for life, especially if the reasons why we are in such a mess is done to his decisions.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Renegade

[Scarlet Pimple]

What a sour lot some of you are.

This thread has not turned out too well with all the griping and counter griping.

Just give the man a fair chance and can we leave it at that...please.

[MarkD]

Many though seem to forget, that ICT should have stayed up in 2009, but Butcher blew it with weeks remaining, opting to play the weaker and already leaving Michael Fraser over Esson and playing Pavels Mihadjuks out of position in the final game. While it's true that most of the damage was done under Brewster, Butcher certainly played his part.

I agree with that, the selections in the last few games resulted in us snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. But I don't think that changes what he's trying to do now and the validity in moving the 'old guard' on even if someone else round the corner is putting their hands in their pockets to pay them.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

This is beginning to resemble repetitive, destructive, soul destroying obsessional behaviour akin to adhering to the selections of Djebi Zade, Eric Odhiambo and David Proctor (out of position)!!

Replace with David Raven and Shane Sutherland (out of position)!!

Edited September 7, 2012 by IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Personally I do not want rid - but as Bronson alluded to there are similarities.... ;-)

[gordieict]

Any calls for the Butcher's head five games into the season are ridiculous and frankly a waste of time as no board in their right mind are going to make changes this early even if they could afford to.

I do think some will never forgive him for getting rid of Munro, Tokely and Duncan while others will move on.

I admit I do have concerns about Butcher as a manager but he deserves more than 5 games this season, we will have a good idea by Xmas where we are heading this season. Criticise his team selections, tactics etc all armchair fans will do that, we all think we know better than the Pro's sometimes but lets get behind the manager you never know he might just give all us doubters a pleasant surprise.

[CaleyD]

IMO, the thread has longs since stopped being about Butcher and is now nothing more than a c*ck measuring competition between users on either side of the discussion trying to outdo each other.

It's been a while, but I actually agree with IHE's last post!!!

[bdu98196]

Every other post on this thread and infact far too many on this site use the words Tokely & Munro (can the mods add these to the swear filter lol). Remind me were the not stalwarts and mainstays of the team the year we got relegated? Just because they were at the club through the good times as well as the bad, we cant be selective and forget that they had been involved in our ONLY relegation in history.

Personally I'm a supporter of ICT not of an individual player and as another manager has said before 'no player is bigger than the club - and that was about players of the calibre of Jaap Staam, van Nistelroy & Beckham). If fans feel that strongly then perhaps they should follow players and support their team as such rather than choosing a single club based on local ties or otherwise ;)

[Renegade]

Every other post on this thread and infact far too many on this site use the words Tokely & Munro (can the mods add these to the swear filter lol). Remind me were the not stalwarts and mainstays of the team the year we got relegated? Just because they were at the club through the good times as well as the bad, we cant be selective and forget that they had been involved in our ONLY relegation in history.

They were also the stalwats and mainstays that we part of the team that had managed to stay up four seasons previously. They were also the stalwarts and mainstays during the season where ICT won Division One. They were also the stalwarts in the following season where ICT, on another day would've reached top six. You're making it sound like relegation was all their fault, quietly ignoring the fact that Butcher played his part as well.

What I have noticed though, is that many pro-Butcher posters always refer back to the winning of Division One and the success of the following season, as to why Butcher is some sort of managerial god, yet when others criticise Butcher and mention the decision to punt Munro, Duncan and Tokely, the part he played in the relegation and other instances in the past, the happy clappers are the first to tell them to "get over it" and "move on".

Edited September 7, 2012 by Renegade

[starchief]

Short memories no - I have acknowledged the good times under Butcher, but they cannot justify his staying hin the job for life, especially if the reasons why we are in such a mess is done to his decisions.

What mess? A very low wage bill, plus finishing above Dunfermline and Hibs, nowhere near relegation. If we finish above a bigger spending team like Hibs this year, then job done. If the bigger spenders like St Johnstone, Aberdeen and Hibs can play excrutianitingly (spelling!) dull football, what makes ICT exempt?

No? Then what do you want?

Who says a job for life? If we're marooned by Xmas, get shot of him. But we're not. And we weren't last year either. Or the year before. It's not happy clapping but simple realism.

Shouting for Terry to go, year-upon-year, no matter what - that's close-minded. Nothing changes their beliefs.

[lizi]

Give it a rest, children!!! I will not be reading this post again. Give it a rest, please - posters repeating themselves time after time is just so tiresome and such a waste of time. Go to the away games and enjoy the atmosphere, the singing, the banter, the craic - phone 07951 309 504 and, if you girn, you will have a few ladies on the bus who will sort you out pronto!! Promise!

[Laurence]

You can argue this way or that way

You can talk about mistakes made in the past till you are blue in the face

The fact remains and all would agree including the manager there has to be an improvement

A poor result against Aberdeen tomorrow will reduce the players moral to zero

I don't have an answer. I just keep hoping it will get better.

[Renegade]

What mess? A very low wage bill, plus finishing above Dunfermline and Hibs, nowhere near relegation.

I really should have made it more clear that if we end up in a mess, which the way we are heading is very likely. The defence looks shambolic. Dedicated, experienced stalwarts have been replaced by injury-prone duds, particularly the likes of Tom Aldred and Greg Tansey who had little interest in sticking around. Also, finishing above Dunfermline and Hibernian should not be viewed as a cause for celebration. They were both horrendous last year, and in the league ICT failed to beat Dunfermline in each of the four meetings and were beaten twice at home by Hibs, with the only win against them coming against a fairly weaker outfit.

No? Then what do you want?

I'd like to see a team who give their all for the club and at least have some connection to the supporters. We used to have players like that, but Butcher punted them.

Who says a job for life? If we're marooned by Xmas, get shot of him. But we're not. And we weren't last year either. Or the year before. It's not happy clapping but simple realism.

Shouting for Terry to go, year-upon-year, no matter what - that's close-minded. Nothing changes their beliefs.

Presumably you are referring to my past criticism of Butcher. While that is true, I've never once called for his head.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Renegade

[12th Man]

replying to the question, yes.

[caleydawson]

this season we need a proper striker and i dont think terry knows how to get one but apart from that he gets till november

Edited September 7, 2012 by caleydawson

[+bughtmaster]

Nice try Lizzi but there are none so blind as those who cannot see.

Any argument there sour people ?

[+Fraz]

You can argue this way or that way

You can talk about mistakes made in the past till you are blue in the face

The fact remains and all would agree including the manager there has to be an improvement

A poor result against Aberdeen tomorrow will reduce the players moral to zero

I don't have an answer. I just keep hoping it will get better.

I hope it will get better too but I'm 100% sure we won't get any points from Aberdeen tomorrow. ;)

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

You can argue this way or that way

You can talk about mistakes made in the past till you are blue in the face

The fact remains and all would agree including the manager there has to be an improvement

A poor result against Aberdeen tomorrow will reduce the players moral to zero

I don't have an answer. I just keep hoping it will get better.

I hope it will get better too but I'm 100% sure we won't get any points from Aberdeen tomorrow. ;)

Laurence is a divvy

[PaderbornCaley]

You can argue this way or that way

You can talk about mistakes made in the past till you are blue in the face

The fact remains and all would agree including the manager there has to be an improvement

A poor result against Aberdeen tomorrow will reduce the players moral to zero

I don't have an answer. I just keep hoping it will get better.

I hope it will get better too but I'm 100% sure we won't get any points from Aberdeen tomorrow. ;)

If we get 3 points from Aberdeen tomorrow then we should give Butcher a new contract!

[12th Man]

You can argue this way or that way

You can talk about mistakes made in the past till you are blue in the face

The fact remains and all would agree including the manager there has to be an improvement

A poor result against Aberdeen tomorrow will reduce the players moral to zero

I don't have an answer. I just keep hoping it will get better.

I hope it will get better too but I'm 100% sure we won't get any points from Aberdeen tomorrow. ;)

I cant see ICT picking up any points tomorrow either.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

I can't see us getting 3 pts in a week's time either - that's what truly worries me

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well - at least I will be there and may even don the IHE traditional outfit to try and get a wee bit of a feckin sing song.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Not once have I referred to the transfer iof Munro etc. Why bother--it's in the past and cannot be altered in any way, shape or form?

All I am saying is stop gurning and whining and try just giving the Manager some needed support just for once.

It's so stale that one has to wonder if someone somewhere is worried about losing some money over a bet or whatever?

This is the last time I am going to look at this thread because it is so depressing and negative in parts.

[Laurence]

You can argue this way or that way

You can talk about mistakes made in the past till you are blue in the face

The fact remains and all would agree including the manager there has to be an improvement

A poor result against Aberdeen tomorrow will reduce the players moral to zero

I don't have an answer. I just keep hoping it will get better.

I hope it will get better too but I'm 100% sure we won't get any points from Aberdeen tomorrow. ;)

Laurence is a divvy

The coop gives us Divvy

We need a dividend todayi