Butcher to Barnsley? Terry stays put***

[CaleyD]

Thinking about the Doncaster thing....why would they say Lomas is #1 target and then ask to speak to Butcher?  Why would the club issue statement on one club and not the other?  The Spidey senses are tingling and I'm going to call it as BS....or at the very least a half story which media have jumped the gun on.

[RiG]

Perhaps they are worried they will miss out on the chance to at least talk to Butcher so they've had to move quickly.

[Renegade]

He'd had a pretty poor spell and Brentford and Sydney (neither of which he got time to change the club to his style).

 

 

That's simply not true.  Sydney had won both the A League Championship the season before under a possession-based attacking style enforced by their then manager Pierre Littbarski.  Butcher came in, in his first press conference declared that Sydney would be the "grinders of Australian football" and well...punted Sydney's passing style in favour of the more traditional English hit and hope, a style Australian football had been attempting to rid itself off for a number of years.  Butcher represented the exact opposite of what had been wrong with Australian football for the previous few decades.

 

He also didn't exactly endear himself to the fans or the media at all.  Saying he wasn't given enough time, without looking the facts of his time there, is incorrect.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Renegade

[Renegade]

 

Did Barnsley really say "good vibe" in a statement??

 

 

BBC just said they've already had a "positive chat" with Butcher.

 

Sounds like he's interested to me.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Doncaster Rovers Football Club Limited is an Active business incorporated in England & Wales on 13th September 1920. Their business activity is recorded as Operation Of Sports Facilities. Doncaster Rovers Football Club Limited is run by 3 current directors and 1 company secretary. It has no share capital. It is also part of a group. The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/05/2011 reported 'cash at bank' of £0, 'liabilities' worth £4,493, 'net worth' of £-1,090,754 and 'assets' worth £12,500. Doncaster Rovers Football Club Limited's Risk Score was amended on 01/03/2012.

 

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00170192

 

Fascinating to compare their wage bill with ours!! Subject to a takeover possibility will create some anxiety for a new management team.  

 

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/yorkshire/82535-player-sales-help-barnsley-fc-score-small-profit

[GaliantGrunt]

There must be some connection for TB to be interested or needing to talk.

Why would Barnsley want an ol`fashioned type manager ? Surely there are better options available to them!

[Alex MacLeod]

There must be some connection for TB to be interested or needing to talk.

Why would Barnsley want an ol`fashioned type manager ? Surely there are better options available to them!

Someone who can get success out of a meagre budget and find players who dont ask the earth. Barnsley, like a few others, are having financial difficulties due to trying to buy success. O'Driscoll has seen through that and so should Terry.

[CaleyD]

If you read some of the Barnsley forums then they talk about the current owners trying to put the club in a position to allow them to sell.

 

Only two ways to do that....strip everything of value and then rip off the fans by selling them a shell of a club....or build the club up and catch the eye of someone looking to invest and build on that success.

 

Barnsley aren't showing any signs of doing the latter.

[BornCaley]

Anyone want to offer a guess as to how much it will cost Barnsley/Donny in compensation to release TB from his contract! Assuming he would take MO as well? Or do we think they have a clause in their contract?

 

I know some people at the club don't like Butcher so not suprised by the quickness of this!

[HumbersideDude]

Local radio down here, have said that there is nothing in the Butcher to Doncaster story. And  Doncaster are not deciding anything on a new manager for at least a week.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Dewsburydude

[starchief]

He'd had a pretty poor spell and Brentford and Sydney (neither of which he got time to change the club to his style).

 

 

That's simply not true.  Sydney had won both the A League Championship the season before under a possession-based attacking style enforced by their then manager Pierre Littbarski.  Butcher came in, in his first press conference declared that Sydney would be the "grinders of Australian football" and well...punted Sydney's passing style in favour of the more traditional English hit and hope, a style Australian football had been attempting to rid itself off for a number of years.  Butcher represented the exact opposite of what had been wrong with Australian football for the previous few decades.

 

He also didn't exactly endear himself to the fans or the media at all.  Saying he wasn't given enough time, without looking the facts of his time there, is incorrect.

 

And how long did he get? A few months with another manager's players is not enough time. He was doing badly with ICT 6 months into his reign. If we had punted him then, we would have never had what we've got now. It doesn't matter what style a manager chooses. That's up to the directors to figure out before they hire him.

[Renegade]

And how long did he get? A few months with another manager's players is not enough time. He was doing badly with ICT 6 months into his reign. If we had punted him then, we would have never had what we've got now. It doesn't matter what style a manager chooses. That's up to the directors to figure out before they hire him.

 

He probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place.  He obviously had the type of players to play a possession based style and chose not too (attendances also dropped significantly a couple of months into Butcher's reign, with the style of football being played the main reason given as to why).  

 

And it's not just that.  His public comments about a country he'd only just arrived in rather poor taste.  He criticised the newspapers, the standard of football, even the quality of coffee.  Career suicide in a country like that.  It's pretty clear why he wasn't given more time.  No board would want a man who was unsuccessful and conducted himself in such a poor manner!

Edited January 7, 2013 by Renegade

[old caley girl]

Local radio down here, have said that there is nothing in the Butcher to Doncaster story. And  Doncaster are not deciding anything on a new manager for at least a week.

A bit of good news then if they are right!

[Alex MacLeod]

 

 

He'd had a pretty poor spell and Brentford and Sydney (neither of which he got time to change the club to his style).

 

 

That's simply not true.  Sydney had won both the A League Championship the season before under a possession-based attacking style enforced by their then manager Pierre Littbarski.  Butcher came in, in his first press conference declared that Sydney would be the "grinders of Australian football" and well...punted Sydney's passing style in favour of the more traditional English hit and hope, a style Australian football had been attempting to rid itself off for a number of years.  Butcher represented the exact opposite of what had been wrong with Australian football for the previous few decades.

 

He also didn't exactly endear himself to the fans or the media at all.  Saying he wasn't given enough time, without looking the facts of his time there, is incorrect.

 

 

And how long did he get? A few months with another manager's players is not enough time. He was doing badly with ICT 6 months into his reign. If we had punted him then, we would have never had what we've got now. It doesn't matter what style a manager chooses. That's up to the directors to figure out before they hire him.

 

I beg to differ big time with that statement. Butcher walked into a team who were doing badly. At the start of his reign at ICT he finished our relegation season with six losses from 17 games. The damage was done by the 18 losses out of 28 games prior to him joining. The first three months of the following season seen us play 18 games (including cup) and lose 4. To me he had a very good start to his first six months.

Sadly most folk only remember that he was in charge when we were relegated.

[+DoofersDad]

For the reasons I gave in post 27 I think Terry would be mad to leave.  But as things have developed somewhat since I wrote that, I'll add another little thought.  As others have said, it's a choice of money or glory because there is no way on earth that Barnsley are ever getting into the Premier league.  So if he leaves, it will be for the money.  But in my view, a move to Barnsley motivated by money would actually demonstrate a major lack of belief in his own abilities.

 

Let's be honest, he hasn't actually achieved a great deal as a manager.  Yes, he's been a relative success here but we have still not reached a major cup final or finished in the top six. Current interest in him is about what he might achieve -  we are 2nd in the league and in both cups, but we've won nothing yet.  By the end of the season we might be bottom 6 and not have progressed beyond a cup semi-final - in which case other clubs will soon lose interest.  On the other hand, if we maintain our 2nd place in the league and win one of the cups then that will be a tremendous achievement and Terry will suddenly become very marketable indeed.  If that were to happen Terry could expect to attract interest from bigger clubs than Barnsley offering considerably more they they could.  So if money is the motive, why go now?

 

If Terry is in it for the money (which I don't actually believe) then he should wait to the end of the season when he's actually achieved something.  If he goes now then that would suggest to me that he has no belief in his ability to lead ICT to success this season.  If that is the case, then Barnsley is actually quite an attractive option as he could blame failure and relegation on what's gone before and basic survival can be viewed as success.

 

If he has any ambition and faith in his own abilities, he'll stay. 

[starchief]

I won't bore people with this to-ing and fro-ing but my point was he had 6 months in the job. Not enough time to recruit his own players and get a club playing the way he wanted. Same as Brentford. He wasn't great at Motherwell or ICT straight away but they stuck with him and gained the rewards. I think I've made a fair point regarding time in job. Whether he changed style or didn't like the country is irrelevant. Give him time and he comes good. Will he get that at Bansley or Doncaster?

Mad to leave, if he does.

[NoIInTeam]

And Renegade is finally released, will be interesting to see the cr@p coming out now from the, until now, (this season anyway) silent moaners.<br /><br />If he goes he goes, the club will go on. Good luck to him, he has been given time at a club and has shown that when given time he can do really well. Just remember that he is a decent bloke but we will never have the resources to grow the club, especially when Sevco join the biggies again. If he leaves he leaves us with a smile on our faces. The next man's job is to maintain the spirit and ours is to help him.<br /><br />Saying that he hasn't gone anywhere yet.

[starchief]

He'd had a pretty poor spell and Brentford and Sydney (neither of which he got time to change the club to his style).

 

I beg to differ big time with that statement. Butcher walked into a team who were doing badly. At the start of his reign at ICT he finished our relegation season with six losses from 17 games. The damage was done by the 18 losses out of 28 games prior to him joining. The first three months of the following season seen us play 18 games (including cup) and lose 4. To me he had a very good start to his first six months.

Have a look at the results: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_Inverness_Caledonian_Thistle_F.C._season

Losses to Partick, Ross C, QoS etc. Loads of draws too from the likes of Ayr, Dunfermline and Airdrie. Not many were predicting promotion before Xmas 2009. Loads of criticism on this board too. But he got through it with an amazing run.

[Renegade]

I won't bore people with this to-ing and fro-ing but my point was he had 6 months in the job. Not enough time to recruit his own players and get a club playing the way he wanted. Same as Brentford. He wasn't great at Motherwell or ICT straight away but they stuck with him and gained the rewards. I think I've made a fair point regarding time in job. Whether he changed style or didn't like the country is irrelevant. Give him time and he comes good. Will he get that at Bansley or Doncaster?

 

Six months is how long an A League season lasts.  To be fair to Butcher, he wasn't allowed to bring his own players in and lost Dwight Yorke quite early on (something to do with money problems IIRC).  He also allowed to take Malpas with him, which he would have done otherwise and Sydney were also deducted points (something to do with the foreign player quota I believe).  I think it's to say though that while he may have come good given time (his stints here and Motherwell seem to suggest that), the way he conducted himself was inappropriate and didn't exactly endear him to the locals.

Mad to leave, if he does.

Agreed!

 

 

 

And Renegade is finally released,

 

Released?!  I been here the whole time! 

I've also claimed he would be mistaken to leave having done so well this season and have expressed a desire for him to stay!  

Edited January 7, 2013 by Renegade

[Alex MacLeod]

I dont need to go to Wiki. I can find all I need to know on this site. Of the 17 SPL games in 08/09 5 were draws. For the first three months of the following season we drew 4. So in the 35 games of the first six months of Terry's reign we drew 9 and lost 10. And County didnt beat us in that period.

 

Methinks you set your sights for sucess so high that the vision is blurred.

[Kingsmills]

I have a strong feeling that he will go. Looking at it objectively, Barnsley are a much larger club than us with a much greater fan base and more potential than us. His salary and player budget will be much enhanced and he probably feels he still has a point to prove in management in his native land.

 

Personally, while a bit disappointed given the season we are having, I would be far from devastated as we have a pretty good record over the years in successfully replacing departing managers.

 

The one thing I would not relish is Butcher leaving with Malpas staying and replacing him as manager. The latter seems a good coach and has been generally successful as Butcher's right hand man but has a dismal record as a manager in his own right.

 

Paul Hartley anyone ?

[Big G]

I dont need to go to Wiki. I can find all I need to know on this site. Of the 17 SPL games in 08/09 5 were draws. For the first three months of the following season we drew 4. So in the 35 games of the first six months of Terry's reign we drew 9 and lost 10. And County didnt beat us in that period.

 

Methinks you set your sights for sucess so high that the vision is blurred.

Didn't they beat us 3-1 at TCS during this period?

[old caley girl]

I have a strong feeling that he will go. Looking at it objectively, Barnsley are a much larger club than us with a much greater fan base and more potential than us. His salary and player budget will be much enhanced and he probably feels he still has a point to prove in management in his native land.

 

Personally, while a bit disappointed given the season we are having, I would be far from devastated as we have a pretty good record over the years in successfully replacing departing managers.

 

The one thing I would not relish is Butcher leaving with Malpas staying and replacing him as manager. The latter seems a good coach and has been generally successful as Butcher's right hand man but has a dismal record as a manager in his own right.

 

Paul Hartley anyone ?

Answer is no thank you from me!

[starchief]

I have a strong feeling that he will go. Looking at it objectively, Barnsley are a much larger club than us with a much greater fan base

Agreed

and more potential than us.

Strongly disagree. What potential? In their top division? Challenging for Europe? Realistic contendors for a cup? There's no likliehood for glory at Barnsley.

The one thing I would not relish is Butcher leaving with Malpas staying and replacing him as manager. The latter seems a good coach and has been generally successful as Butcher's right hand man but has a dismal record as a manager in his own right.

Not my first choice but I'd be prepared to give him a go.

[Govan Jaggie]

I dont need to go to Wiki. I can find all I need to know on this site. Of the 17 SPL games in 08/09 5 were draws. For the first three months of the following season we drew 4. So in the 35 games of the first six months of Terry's reign we drew 9 and lost 10. And County didnt beat us in that period.

 

Methinks you set your sights for sucess so high that the vision is blurred.

Didn't they beat us 3-1 at TCS during this period?

Yes.