Duncan

[Bronson]

perhaps once duncan has played for his country as often as niculae has he could look to command a similar wage.

[stomach]

I think the signing of Niculae was a mistake for this very reason. With the wages he (Niculae) is on it creates divide in the squad. ICT has always (in the past) been a club where all the top players were on roughly the same wages, we had no superstars but a great team spirit.

Now if Duncan wants a big pay rise because  - 'Niculae is getting x amount, so I want more than your offering', then where does it end?

The next player with a contract nearly up will say 'Duncan is getting x amount, so I want the same'

Before you know where you are you have the whole 1st team squad on higher wages than is finacially viable for a club with the size of support we have.

Look at Dunfermline they are now in the first division with a huge wage bill, for instance Aberdeen tried to buy Wilson from Dunfermline but he didn't go because - 'he couldn't afford to take the pay cut' !

As I say I think the signing of Niculae (on those wages) was a mistake, is he any better than Brew or Dargs were for us? I don't know if he is, and I think we should not be held to ransom by Duncan and stick to our guns, even though I would not won't to lose him, it may be the lesser of 2 evils.

[roby]

russel is and has been a very important player  for us . to lose him would be a blow but the club cannot go down the road of paying wages they cannot afford . we need look no further than livi, dundee,dunfermline, partick and others who refused to live within their means . marius is a one of  and to attract a player of his quality  a  special deal had to be struck.  no way this could be repeated across the board.

[DJS]

I believe Russell's wage has been pretty poor even by ICT standards so I don't blame him for holding out for the club's best offer.  Hopefully, it can be sorted out soon.

[Guest TinCanFan]

is he any better than Brew or Dargs were for us? I don't know if he is

Dargo yes, Brewster?  Maybe about the same.

[Scotty]

There are very few of us who know the current wage structure. We can speculate and some may have snippets of information but for the most part the actual amounts are not in the public domain (nor should they be).

From what I have been told in the past, ICT has always paid a lower basic wage and decent bonuses putting the onus on the players to do well to increase their salaries. This seems to have served us quite well over the years although I know for a fact that we have lost players when ICT have low-balled new contract offers and then not made improved ones. There was speculation about the structure of John Rankin's contract when we signed Niculae, and if the rumours about that have any semblance of truth then that could be one big reason why he was allowed to move.

In Russell's case, his last contract was signed a few years ago, and as others have speculated, it would not surprise me in the least if he is probably not on a great wage in comparison to more recent signings (not including Niculae who is a different subject). However, he will have benefited from the bonus structure which seems to have moved on a bit year-on-year and is now based around at least a portion of the SPL final position bonus.

As a club I think we need to make sure our basic wage is good for our level from the players' point of view but we also have to make sure from a club point of view that it is sustainable - ie, not putting us in the Livi/Dunfermline scenario.

We should be offering players like Russell (and any others) a salary commensurate with our SPL status, and also based on their own seniority within the club structure and should continue to rely on good bonuses for performance. that way, if we finish higher, the club gets more money and so do the players, but regardless of our league position players should be secure in the knowledge that they can progress in basic salary as they progress within the team. As a first choice central midfielder who has been with the club for a number of years, he should be getting something towards the top end of our basic structure.

As for the "Niculae effect" then realistically, only Richard Hastings has a leg to stand on. None of our other players are/were International players who can legitimise a request for matching wages although I cant blame them in the slightest for trying.

Again, maybe this needs looked at ... If we are to attract "star" players then we will obviously have to pay more, but do we go along the route that they get a wage at the top end of our pay scale and anything excess must come from sponsors or do we throw the wage structure out the window ... its a toughie but again, the players should perhaps look to the bonuses. If we have a top player and that player is doing well for the club then the club should be doing well in the league ... ergo we finish higher and every player gets more in their wage packet through bonuses.

[gillian black]

why get upset, no one has come in for him to date

[SMEE]

I think the signing of Niculae was a mistake for this very reason. With the wages he (Niculae) is on it creates divide in the squad. ICT has always (in the past) been a club where all the top players were on roughly the same wages, we had no superstars but a great team spirit.

Amen!!

[Guest sophia]

The great thing about RD is that he goes about his job with the minimum of fuss.

I take great delight in his tenacity in winning the ball - even when it is he that has given it away in the first place!

That said, having listened to Charlie Barley, I think the word ?enjoyed? rather suggests to me ?irons are in the fire?.

I hope that we are fair to RD.

When others are missing he continues to be the mainstay of our midfield.

[Scotty]

I think the word ?enjoyed? rather suggests to me ?irons are in the fire?.

I too noted that word in the audio interview.

[dead_ball_specialist]

Fair enough he gets stuck in and he does a job, but half of the time he wouldn't look out of place in the SFL. The players deserve a pay rise but that should be based on individual merit, not on 'levelling things out'. Communism doesn't work.

[L_G]

I don't think he expects a similar wage to Niculae, just that the gap is bridged a bit.  I totally agree that he should hold out for a better deal.

He has an agent who could actively seek another club for him, but I would think this would have to be in England.  I'm certain that given the chance he will stay, but you have to appreciate that this will probably be his most significant contract due to his age.  I hope they do try to at least make him a decent offer.  The club were always going to try to get them to sign on the cheap, but don't forget the agents part in the negotiations.  I'm sure they will be pushing for the best offer possible.

[Yngwie]

Solution : offer him a cracking contract, but with a ?100 penalty clause for every time he passes to the opposition.

[RowdyBey]

We'll be millionaire's.............. :crazy07:

[Caley Mad In Berks]

I think the signing of Niculae was a mistake for this very reason. With the wages he (Niculae) is on it creates divide in the squad. ICT has always (in the past) been a club where all the top players were on roughly the same wages, we had no superstars but a great team spirit.

You're living in the past.  Fixed wage structures are OK for part time lower league clubs.  They are completley impractical for modern professional outfits, which I'm sure ICT aspire to be.  We have to move with the times.  Your 'no superstars/good team spitit attitude' would see us back in the lower leagues within two or tree years IMO.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

perhaps once duncan has played for his country as often as niculae has he could look to command a similar wage.

Absolutely right.

[stomach]

I think the signing of Niculae was a mistake for this very reason. With the wages he (Niculae) is on it creates divide in the squad. ICT has always (in the past) been a club where all the top players were on roughly the same wages, we had no superstars but a great team spirit.

You're living in the past.  Fixed wage structures are OK for part time lower league clubs.  They are completley impractical for modern professional outfits, which I'm sure ICT aspire to be.  We have to move with the times.  Your 'no superstars/good team spitit attitude' would see us back in the lower leagues within two or tree years IMO.

Living in the past?

Yeh, because Dunfermline, Dundee, Livingston and even Ross County have done so well by spending well beyond their means. I remember that a few years ago when Calderwood was at Dunfermline it was said that they would have to qualify for the Uefa cup every year to break even as their players were on so high a weekly wage. That, I'm afraid is a ludicrous situation for a team of their size to get into, and I hope we never go down that road. I think we have done remarkably well so far with the wage structure we had and the last thing we need is get back into debt and join the long list of teams in Scotland who owe the bank tens of millions.

[Harry Chibber]

what I found astonishing is that certain forum members don't appreciate the contribution players like Dunacan and Tokely make the squad (or the club on the whole).  When players lke Niculae, Black, Fraser fill there full potential it will be the Duncan's and Tokelys that stick the team when the other razz matazz players feck off to other teams for more money.  They are the heart and soul of ICT

[chris123]

what I found astonishing is that certain forum members don't appreciate the contribution players like Dunacan and Tokely make the squad (or the club on the whole).  When players lke Niculae, Black, Fraser fill there full potential it will be the Duncan's and Tokelys that stick the team when the other razz matazz players feck off to other teams for more money.  They are the heart and soul of ICT

Well said sir.

And I feckin love watching Russeldinho mouthing off at referees

[kiltarlity]

It would be much cheaper to replace Duncan,  than Marius thats another reason why Marius commands a higher wage packet.

Why do have we so many midfielders, because there is no shortage of half decent ones out their therefore wages and transfer fees are less. Market forces folks.. 

Strikers go for far more money.. because their are less half decent ones out there. Marius is on a high wage yes, but remember we didn't have to pay a transfer fee.

If we had had to pay a transfer fee for a striker to replace Dargo would we not have been looking at 250k +...

Graham

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Ok - I am getting pissed off and I did tell everyone earlier in this season that Rosscoe was livid about the CC situation and has been expressing a desire to leave ever since - and he also felt let down by the lack of support from his management in regard to the Heathmount incident. He is also unsettled by the wage structure.

I have also stated on many occasions that the Niculae factor is having a definite effect. If you recall I have been naming Duncan, Black, Cowie, Rankin and Tokely as the main detractors. All four of the remaining players regularly fall out with Niculae and I have ben at games when they do appear to avoid bringing him into the game. As professionals I suspect that they have to accept that he can be a bonus at home but they must be seething that he is being played away from home. Lets face it - Niculae is being played as a means of trying to get him a recall to the Romanian squad (give me a feckin break  :029:) and there must be some form of contractual agreement in there as well. I suppose they feel that if he is worth the wages then they are also worth an extra bob or two. And why are we making so much squad cutbacks and the Rankin transfer - financial ?  :024:

Mark my words Black and Cowie will be itching in the summer if the situation is not resolved.

I said it after his first two games - Niculae is becoming the worst signing we have ever made and he is taking our club spirit apart - and that is not his fault - and players like Rosscoe and Duncan epitomise it and players like Black and Cowie are the future..  :018:

Who is to blame for this "terrible" season ? Clue - Look to the back of the Main Stand.

[ElderBoy]

Ok - I am getting pissed off and I did tell everyone earlier in this season that Rosscoe was livid about the CC situation and has been expressing a desire to leave ever since - and he also felt let down by the lack of support from his management in regard to the Heathmount incident. He is also unsettled by the wage structure.

I have also stated on many occasions that the Niculae factor is having a definite effect. If you recall I have been naming Duncan, Black, Cowie, Rankin and Tokely as the main detractors. All four of the remaining players regularly fall out with Niculae and I have ben at games when they do appear to avoid bringing him into the game. As professionals I suspect that they have to accept that he can be a bonus at home but they must be seething that he is being played away from home. Lets face it - Niculae is being played as a means of trying to get him a recall to the Romanian squad (give me a feckin break  :029:) and there must be some form of contractual agreement in there as well. I suppose they feel that if he is worth the wages then they are also worth an extra bob or two. And why are we making so much squad cutbacks and the Rankin transfer - financial ?  :024:

Mark my words Black and Cowie will be itching in the summer if the situation is not resolved.

I said it after his first two games - Niculae is becoming the worst signing we have ever made and he is taking our club spirit apart - and that is not his fault - and players like Rosscoe and Duncan epitomise it and players like Black and Cowie are the future..  :018:

Who is to blame for this "terrible" season ? Clue - Look to the back of the Main Stand.

:029: :029:

if he does get in the romania squad for euro 2008 and scores a goal he will be sold . no doubt  :sillywave: :sillywave:

[SMEE]

Niculae is a Luxury player for the likes of us. I believe......every other player in the starting 11 has the right to question why they are so undervalued compared to Niculae for doing the same job.

When they broke the mould to pay Niculaes his wage.......they destoyed the KEY factor which has got us where we are and its something that no amount of money can buy....ie...TEAM SPIRIT!

[Harry Chibber]

what I found astonishing is that certain forum members don't appreciate the contribution players like Dunacan and Tokely make the squad (or the club on the whole).  When players lke Niculae, Black, Fraser fill there full potential it will be the Duncan's and Tokelys that stick the team when the other razz matazz players feck off to other teams for more money.  They are the heart and soul of ICT

glad to see for how drunk I was last night I still managed to get razz matazz into a sentence  :015:

How come every thread re wages, contracts or salaries reverts back to Niculae?

Duncan has every right to question his salary, as he says in his interview he is at the age where he needs to think about this family in the long term.  Niculae may have made other players question their current pay grades but it was going to happen anyway when they see other SPL players at the same level being paid more money, I'm sure their agents probably remind them every transfer window. 

But at the end of the day if it gets us into the top six or the slim chance of European competition it will have paid dividends.

[CaleyD]

The situation with Niculae was always going to effect some players differently than others, but it was also going to give certain players an "excuse" when the reality is that their grievances lie elsewhere.

Duncan has been a totally different player from day one this season, snipping at referees and team mates at every given opportunity, even in pre-season.  Something has been eating at him since before Niculae was signed.

Tokely made public comments when Brewster departed for Dundee Utd that he hadn't been happy with training when he was here and that he was "enjoying" things better with Christie at the helm.  Apart from the fact that he's paid to work and not to "enjoy" himself I imagine any issue he may have are more connected to Brewsters return than Niculaes wages.  In fact, I am fairly certain of that.

Black has been going through a bit of a transition as a player/person on the park and that can't have been easy for him, but I think the whole "Niculae v Black" conspiracy about them not getting on is a load of horlicks as they all seem to get along fine outside of training and matchdays just fine.  His day will come whereby bigger teams will come knocking at the door for him, but he is also rated by Brewster and is probably one of the players who has earned themselves the right to ask for a pay increase, should he not be offered one anyway.

As I said at the start....the Niculae wage issue is an easy bolt-on for some of these players in the search for a sympathetic ear.  We've no doubt all worked in jobs at some point where some people were paid more than others for doing similar roles.  In that situation you can do one of two things....spend your time moaning about it and p!ss your bosses off, or you can knuckle down, prove you are just as capable and earn your pay increase.  As much as I like Duncan and think he deserves more credit than he gets, he's done nothing to suggest he is worth anything near the wages that Niculae is on.  I don't doubt he is worthy of a pay increase, but for him to even mention his "worth" in the same sentence as Niculae is bordering on laughable....the guy is in need of a bit of a reality check.

The club has landed itself in a situation whereby we have more players than is healthy with contracts due to expire in the summer and lots of contract negotiations will be in the pipeline.  They have nobody to blame but themselves for getting in to such a situation and they can't blame the players for using all that is available to them when it comes to negotiating the best deal.  The club made a rod for it's own back with the signing of Niculae and last summer they should have probably spent more time negotiating contracts with existing players instead of chasing him, and for that some players may feel rightfully upset.  However, the players also have to realise that ICT is not a club that has ever allowed itself to be held to ransom and they WILL let players go rather than pay more than they think they are worth/they can afford....and that's as it should be.

As a club we are young and possibly still a little wet behind the ears when it comes to playing these games at this level, and no doubt lessons are still being learned...the same probably goes for a lot of our long standing players.  I just hope when situations such as this arise that we don't land up regretting having never appointed more experienced decision makers on the footballing side of the club.