Attendances --crisis mounting?

[CaleyD]

..........being able to say "we gave it our best"....and that goes for every aspect of ICT, not just what happens on the pitch. [b]It's time for people to set aside personal agendas, grudges and grievances and to start doing what's best for ICT....[/b]if they can't do that then ship out and make way for someone else who can, because until that happens then more and more fans are going to become disillusioned and sub 3000 crowds will become the norm.

I know you have brought me to task in the past for selective editing BUT in this case to carry all the content down would be unnecessary when I just want to ask you to consider the area highlighted and ask if this could be something you could consider.

I can put hand on heart and say that I have never acted through any personal agenda, grudge or grievance against any individual or group of individuals at, or connected to, ICT. I've had a go at a fair few people over the years, some on a number of occasions, but it has never been for any reason other than the fact I didn't believe they were acting in the clubs best interests.

[Scotty]

Are we really down on attendances. The average for this time last season was 5368 whereas this season its 4959. Down 409 but the teams we played at home last season were Rangers, Dundee U, Hearts, Falkirk and Aberdeen. Rangers crowd was 7711 and Aberdeen 6023. The others all bring a reasonable support as well and all gates were above 4000 with Hearts close of 5000. This season we've had Hamilton, Hibs, St Mirren, Killie, Celtic and Motherwell. Hamilton and St Mirren dont bring more than a few dozen fans. The rest have always been just above the 4000 mark apart from Celtic. Lets wait till we've played everyone at home and see if we are losing out on crowds.

Where do you get 4959 ?

16/08/2008 Inverness 0 - 1 Hamilton 3,595

23/08/2008 Inverness 1 - 1 Hibernian 4,022

13/09/2008 Inverness 1 - 2 St Mirren 3,501

27/09/2008 Inverness 3 - 1 Kilmarnock 3,426

18/10/2008 Inverness 1 - 2 Celtic 7,143

25/10/2008 Inverness 1 - 2 Motherwell 3,110

6 home games

total crowd 24,797

average crowd (all) 4132 [53% of ground capacity]

average crowd (excl OF) 3531 [45% of ground capacity]

I havent got last weeks stats from other sides added to the leaguepad program I use but I believe this is the LOWEST average in the SPL and in terms of % of ground filled on a weekly basis only Kilmarnock (36%) and Motherwell (41%) are lower but they both have far larger capacities (just over 18K and just under 14K respectively). Of teams with a similar sized stadium to ours, Falkirk at just shy of 7000 capacity are filling 80% of seats, St Mirren with 8000 are filling 64%, and Hamilton with 6000 are filling 70%.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Scotty
added updated stats including this weeks games. it IS worrying !!!

[Alex MacLeod]

Oops sorry.........made an ass of calculating. Must have divided total by 5 instead of 6. Ignore all I said...........its worse than I thought.................we're doomed.

[gordyfromsneck]

To paraphrase Dougal Haston, or somebody. "There is no such thing as bad weather, only boring football".

When we are challenging for a European place we will get half the town along.

[Kingsmills]

We might not be doomed but, if this trend continues for the whole season, the club will be down around ?250.000 on gate receipts alone, leaving aside additional lost income from catering, programmes, merchandise and the rest.

Quite a hole in the club's already fragile finances.

[RiG]

I missed it as I was watching it in a pub in albufeira, Portugal.

Albufeira is excellent

Pint of Sagres for ?1.50 :thumb04:

[PompeyCT]

It is a shame we do have ailing attendences, i cant say much as im not the most regular of attenders but i am on the south coast of england.

Nonetheless i do do my best to make a game or two a season and will continue to do so even if we are bottom of Div 3. I can understand why other fans dont, it must be hard to watch such dire football but were not down yet, we need to carry on vocal support.

[tokelyisvictorious]

One of the best times ever (and this gives you all an insight into my life) was walking home down the longman in the driving sleet with a cold and a thumping headache after watching ICT grindout a 1-0 win over st mirren. I thought that was fantastic, it made it even more worthwhile. I've grown used to that fact that there is rarely an atmosphere, but i join in with the singing every time it starts up. (me and 3 others in the family section). Thats borne out of the 'family' atmosphere that the club was so keen on producing. It might bear fruit in a few years, if they haven't decided to stay at home by then. Going to a caley game is the what keeps the wheels turning during the week, and i've never left early even after losing 3-0 to motherwell with roscoe getting sent off for crushing mcgarrys face with his elbow. Include another 2500 to that and that makes a decent fanabase. If you look at aberdeen, attendances of, at most, 12,000. We get attendances of at most 7500. For a village of 80,000, thats good. Any team that gets almost 10% of its surrounding population is doing well. I know that 7500 is for an old firm game but i wanted to make this post positive. I just wish the club would attempt to either lower prices of everything, make the match atmosphere more enjoyable, sack the stewards or entertain us more but it isn't going to happen. Do they not care? I've never met a board member and don't know anyone 'inside'. Could someone tell me what they think of their fans and what they plan to do to keep them, because if ict drop down to the bottom, i can't see sttendances over 2500.

[Scotty]

I think we have a similar problem Pompey ... we are but occasional visitors to see the football in person and rely on audio/video or postings on here to get our fix. If we were watching it more regularly in person, we might be as disgruntled as some supporters. Its not just the results, its the manner of those results and also the addition of some of the other issues like parking, stewarding etc that taken as a whole seem to be making the atmosphere and matchday experience very flat.

I have been to only two games in 2008 - both against Kilmarnock, both excellent victories, and both were games where we played very well. However, the thing that shocked me was the complete and utter lack of atmosphere in the main stand. I know some call them sweetie rustlers, but I sat there above the tunnel for many years and we had our fair share of banter with each other and with opposing managers/subs and also with stewards and club officials above and below us. This appears to have gone and people seem hesitant to make a noise ..... is it fear of being chucked out? Is it the product on the park? (wouldnt have thought so for the two games I saw), or is it something else? Whatever it is, it needs looked at urgently or the *18.5% drop in attendances over the first six home games compared to last season will only get worse.

*

First six last year = 30449 [Rangers, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Falkirk, Aberdeen, Motherwell]

First six this year = 24797 [Hamilton, Hibernian, St Mirren, Kilmarnock, Celtic, Motherwell]

+/- qty = -5652

+/- % = -18.56%

[PompeyCT]

Yeah i dont imagine the 'just hop on a plane and watch Caley and be back for tea' works in canada! Your point is true, im not disgruntled because im not out there every week in the cold and wet singing my heart out and doing my bit whilst the players dont. For those who do, i respect your annoyance because in truth id be one of you if i had the chance.

Its a shame because if we could we'd have an excellent fanbase. And thats not just league position, its because like most workers, Caley players are expected to a job to the best of their efforts, and like most bad lazy workers, that isnt always the case.

If Caley players played every game and lost a fair few but gave 100% id still be a happy Inverness fan. Most people would, i refuse to believe most Inverness fans are 'jump on the good results bandwagoners', id just like to see some effort from the players, the boss, and the club as a whole, as im sure most of you would!

[buckett]

There is no crisis - that word comes too easily these days.

For ten years or so, ICT supporters were used to seeing their team winning most of the time. Eventually we joined the country's elite league and didn't win nearly so often. Many supporters found this hard to take and stopped going to games.

Meanwhile a new generation of supporters with less demanding expectations is starting to come through the turnstiles. Give it 3 or 4 years and attendances will start to increase again, if we're still in the SPL.

Simple really!

By the way, Scarlet, did you get the PM I sent you last month? My profile thingy says you never read it! (not that you would've missed much)

[Alex MacLeod]

Scotty, I think most of those who created atmosphere and banter above the tunnel are in the North stand now.

[Scotty]

Scotty, I think most of those who created atmosphere and banter above the tunnel are in the North stand now.

They were still around the tunnel area a few weeks ago (most of the ones I am referring to anyway).

[CaleyD]

The "Clearances" which occurred in the main stand didn't do much to help the situation IMO. I too used to frequent the Main Stand not a kick in the butt off where Scotty sits/sat and although it never compared with the terracing, it was, not so long ago, THE place to be for the best atmosphere in the ground.

Some ridiculous decisions on the possession of flags and what you could or could not do with them, a couple of people hassled because someone with very little knowledge of football fans/chants/shouts had misheard or misunderstood them and wallop...it was killed flat.

Not to mention the fact that Main Stand ticket prices were hiked up way beyond those of the North Stand and created a "class divide" among fans, along with moving the family section to the North Stand and the natural order of things really went out the window.

Getting in to the SPL didn't help either, as it then meant "proper segregation". We no longer had Away fans at the South end of the Main Stand who were only a couple of rows away where banter could be easily (and harmlessly) exchanged.

[Scarlet Pimple]

OOPS! What have I started?

Many good points have been made though.

I am sorry but I strongly feel that the weather is not really a major part of the problem but high prices are.I am well aware that expenses of the club must be high but if the fanbase is dwindling is it NOT prudent to look at more

flexible ways of attracting fans , with reduced pricing as one. At least try it for a few games , under the justification that you are rewarding fans for their loyalty, .i.e.nothing ventured nothing gained.

Bucket--I did get your email and did respond--I'll send you another pm right now. Thanks for letting me know--very strange indeed.

[+Gringo]

Great thread this....

Some very good points being made here but I think the crooks of the matter is football, generally, is pricing itself out of business. I also believe the weather does have an effect on games especially if we aren't playing well and also if we are taking on 'lesser' opposition. I also believe the way supporters get treated is a factor for some too. To pay your expensive entry fee to be watched like and hawk and treated like a leper makes folk think twice. You are also treated like a naughty schoolboy/girl and told to sit down (yes I know it?s a 'rule' that we have to adhere to) by over enthusiastic stewards who are on a power trip. Just imagine being treated the same way in major retail store, you wouldn?t be too pleased and would, probably, never return.

Football today is big business and this ?big business? needs to take a good look at itself and see how it can improve the way it looks after its customers but for the life of me I can?t ever see that happening. The good old supporter will continue to come along and turn out his/her pockets for the club of their choice, but, for how much longer is anyone?s guess.

[+Wanderer]

That's up to you. I grudge paying over the odds for anything and football should be no different. It's not like I'm spending that same ?20 on watching any other team. I'm far happier keeping my ?20 to myself than spend it on watching dross, and end up being cold, wet, miserable and more often than not, downright angry.

There's a restaurant in Edinburgh where you only pay what you think the meal is worth. So here's my idea: PAY ON EXIT.

Pay what you think the match and team's effort was worth. Result: a full ground every week and a motivated bunch of players.

(The only problem I can see would be when Aberdeen visited)

[Kingsmills]

Would anyone consider a game of football, no matter how entertaining worth ?25 ?

[Guest couchpotato]

This is not just an ICT problem, Scottish football in general is in dire straights.i used to consider my self a staunch supporter off football and would go to a game whereever i happened to be living at any given time,support the local team and join in the craic and banter.As mentioned in several posts the treatment of fans and sterilisation of stadiums combined with the standard of entertainment slowly turned me off to the point where apathy took over and now i can hardly be bothered to watch a whole match even if it's free on Alba telly.I also fail to see the point of the SPL where NO team outwith the OF has ANY chance whatsoever of winning it,leading to many meaningless fixtures,top 6 ?what a load of pish!!,The League /CIS cup has been demeaned to a second rate trophy leaving the "Scottish" as the only worthwhile trophy any other team has a chance of winning .

The weather/cost/distance never used to be of any consequence in the decision making process but it certainly is now with any excuse to "not bother" being used.Sadly, i reckon this decline is terminal and in the words of a certain supermarket chain "When it's gone,it's gone"

[Jay_7]

That's up to you. I grudge paying over the odds for anything and football should be no different. It's not like I'm spending that same ?20 on watching any other team. I'm far happier keeping my ?20 to myself than spend it on watching dross, and end up being cold, wet, miserable and more often than not, downright angry.

There's a restaurant in Edinburgh where you only pay what you think the meal is worth. So here's my idea: PAY ON EXIT.

Pay what you think the match and team's effort was worth. Result: a full ground every week and a motivated bunch of players.

(The only problem I can see would be when Aberdeen visited)

Great idea but I can't really see the pencil pushers going for it unfortunately.

[Kirishima]

Do any good number crunchers know what percentage ICT income is fan based, i.e season tickets, pay at the gate etc. is there a financial report outlining it? It would be interesting to see what percentage of ICT income is from supporters going to the matches.

Any guesses on the percentage? Id say a fair bit, maybe 40%...I could be way off in either direction.

Could someone point me to a financial report with all these details, im sure it exists, yes?

[Ronaldo]

It is my view and purely my view that the club should be selling more tickets/season tickets, in a similar way that, perhaps, double glazing is sold.

Whether people want them or can afford them is another matter altogether. Bums on seats!

If the football becomes that good no one will worry.

[gordyfromsneck]

Would anyone consider a game of football, no matter how entertaining worth ?25 ?

I am glad I am a season ticket holder and pay by direct debit in the payment scheme. One signature and I can forget about it. I am certain that if I had to dig into my pocket and pull out two tenners and a fiver for some of the half-@rsed sh1te we have been watching recently, I would be a lot less regular.

I tip my hat to those that loyally do, especially those that take kids along. You deserve better.

"Theatre of dreams" indeed.

[Ronaldo]

You're bang on GFS

I've said this before, come and see your local SPL team for less than a pound a day

[Scotty]

It is my view and purely my view that the club should be selling more tickets/season tickets, in a similar way that, perhaps, double glazing is sold. Whether people want them or can afford them is another matter altogether. Bums on seats! If the football becomes that good no one will worry.

Grassa could certainly advise :thumb04:

To answer the question about how much income ICT get from ticket sales is a hard one. I dont think there are any publicly released figures that will show this kind of breakdown. The club will obviously know, but its not broken down in that much detail to fans or shareholders.

Having said that, you only need look around to things like the new events committee and the recent hospitality offers for season ticket holders to see that the club are trying to bring in revenue where they can .... Is that to increase what they already get, or might the more cynical amongst us think that it is to try and make ends meet due to a downturn in matchday revenue linked to lower crowds ...... probably a bit of both in the end.

I know I keep harping on about it, but this is where I feel that Boardroom Banter can help and I am glad that the likes of Grassa, Kenny Cameron and others have climbed back on board so to speak. Initially there may be little asked of the club except the issues that annoy fans, but over time, I expect it will evolve and people may feel more comfortable with making positive suggestions that will help not only themselves but also the club. I am in the middle of collating the questions for issue 2 and there are already a few comments made that are actually suggestions for revenue building or helping with atmosphere .... and that to me is what it should be all about .... not just grumbles, but also suggestions on how to fix the things we grumble about, or how to help the club make more money without necessarily dipping into people's pockets.