Chubbs

[ictchris]

Stuart Armstrong's family moved to Dundee, that's why he left.

http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=124&ID=361

[bmhighland]

The point about how these lads do when they leave is an interesting one because of our location. An u19 leaving Motherwell would have the opportunity of going to numerous Div 1, 2 and 3 clubs, still full time and at a fairly high standard. As a result they can continue to improve and have a chance to progress in future. Our u19s can either go to the tinks or elgin and failing that its Highland League. Once into the Highland League its very difficult to shine. Many go there excellent players and end up also-rans within a couple of years. This perpetuates the myth that they wouldn't have made it in the first team. I personally think that given the chance many would prove to be strong first team regulars. Problem is, it would take a brave manager to take that risk. Elvis has tried it and not exactly set the world on fire so far.

[Oddquine]

Unbelievable, have heard that all of the older 19s have been released, apart from 1. And the one kept is the biggest suprise of the lot. Andrew Greig - released, Tom Smith - released, Jack Sutherland - released, Calum Dingwall - released, Martin Laing - signed.

Liam Polworth has another year as he is 17, one I dont know about is Kyle White, maybe oddquine can help us know about Kyle.

You are joking, aren't you? Where did you hear that? I've been out of the loop for the last ten days with no internet access. I'd have thought they were all shoo-ins for the under 20s. If the under 19s next year are those with birthdays on or after 1.1.1994, then Liam Polworth will be 19 is towards the end of next year and Kyle Whyte 19 earlier next year, so I think both could do another year in the under 19s. No idea what their situation is atm, though.

[bauhaus]

As far as i know Liam Polworth would still have been eligable for the 19s this season. What it does do this new u20s league, it makes it much harder for the u17s to get picked for an apprenticeship, and makes it more costly for the club.

Say the 17 year olds are on £100 a week ( guessing ), 18s would be on £120, so 19 years old players would have to be on more. Its already hard for the young lads going up a one years age, then into the 17s a two year age gap, now the 20s will have a three year age gap. Would expect ICT to just pick 3 or 4 to go up from the u17s this year

[12th Man]

As far as i know Liam Polworth would still have been eligible for the 19s this season. What it does do this new u20s league, it makes it much harder for the u17s to get picked for an apprenticeship, and makes it more costly for the club.

Say the 17 year olds are on £100 a week ( guessing ), 18s would be on £120, so 19 years old players would have to be on more. Its already hard for the young lads going up a one years age, then into the 17s a two year age gap, now the 20s will have a three year age gap. Would expect ICT to just pick 3 or 4 to go up from the u17s this year

Do you fancy doing a bit of research on the pros and cons of the new U20s league, from what you are saying its not in the interests of SPL clubs to devolop youth as it costs to much, the clubs younger squad players get a game in the u20s but where these players come from we dont actually know as it wont be from our youth because we cant afford to have them, if it warrants it we could start a petition across the SPL.

If the supply chain of young talent is broken, 10 years from now the criteria to play for Scotland will be so low that you will eligible to play if your neighbor is Scottish.

[bauhaus]

Being able to afford a youth set up is all about faith, hoping to unearth an absolute gem. Thats the way small clubs plied their trade in the past, but now the big clubs scouting network is so proactive, you are liable to lose these gems to the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal etc etc before they even get near the first team. You hear of these clubs after players of 13, 14, 15 and 16 thinking they can improve their development with their higher regarded higher paid youth coaches, but it will starve the smaller clubs of that big pay day, as they only pay towards the small clubs time and effort in coaching the youngster. You may get £100k for a player worth £1-2m a couple of years later, although finding that gem might be one per generation.

Consider this, we have 11 non highlander under 20s in a squad of 16-17, but 4 or 5 go on to our first team, would we consider that better than all highlanders, 1 getting to first team but we get relegated. Terry and Mo will be doing what they think is best for the clubs future, as to bring our club down will ruin their career, they are here to do everything to succeed,

[bmhighland]

Squad decimated and a Manager with an aweful record of panic signing duds. He'll be under more pressure than ever to unearth good players and quite frankly I cant see that being possible. The decision to only keep one of our U19s seems more and more outrageous by the day. I'm going to make a prediction that 1 month into the season we'll be making the same complaints of terrible loan signings who dont care, no passion etc etc. All this when we could have been giving a couple of the young lads a chance.

[Alex MacLeod]

Who said we were only keeping one of our U-19's?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Have the club not made a statement about this - or are they all on holiday ?

[Oddquine]

Who said we were only keeping one of our U-19's?

bmhighland did.

If what bauhaus said is correct re who has been let go, of the 9 players pulled into the squad from the under-17s on returning to the SPL, Liam Polworth, Kyle Whyte and Martin Laing, are the only ones still here. (inclined to think on digging, he is correct.) All three of them have been with the youth system from very early on. I think. So still being here from the first age group Youth squad could point to decency. Without the u-20s, Martin Laing might have been gone....or in the 1st team squad (can't quite remember his age, tbh, though he was one of the older of the under-17 squad.) However, I don't really do opinions on abilities, because I can't even walk straight, far less make a football go where I thought I had sent it..(ask my male offspring with whom I used to kick-about and I think should have been playing for Scotland)..and I do rather tend to rely on the opinions of others who claim to know everything. ( which was why my surprise at the letting go of the others and my surprise at keeping Martin Laing) Just as well I, and my omniscient mentors have no say in the makeup of any squad.

A couple of that original 9 were let go at the start of this season, when I think the under 19s pulled in 7 more under-17s, but as far as I know, those newer ex-under-17s are still here. So, of the players brought up pretty much through the ICT youth system, we still have, in the under-20s, 10 ICT brought up youth players, though I have no idea about the situation of those signed more recently who were brought up elsewhere..like Ed Baldy.

[Oddquine]

Squad decimated and a Manager with an aweful record of panic signing duds. He'll be under more pressure than ever to unearth good players and quite frankly I cant see that being possible. The decision to only keep one of our U19s seems more and more outrageous by the day. I'm going to make a prediction that 1 month into the season we'll be making the same complaints of terrible loan signings who dont care, no passion etc etc. All this when we could have been giving a couple of the young lads a chance.

Have we signed only one under 19 player? Really? To what have we signed that one...to the under-20s or to the full squad?

Given our straitened financial circumstances, why would we give a full time first team contract to anyone from the youth squad we don't absolutely have to if they are still eligible to play in the under-20s but can be called onto the bench for the first team if necessary, as a few of last years under-19s were.and haven't yet acquired an agent to kill their footballing future?

Edited May 30, 2012 by Oddquine

[bauhaus]

What I understand is that Martin Laing is the only one of the older under 19s squad who has been told they want to keep him. Chubbs, Tom Smith, Jack Sutherland and Calum Dingwall were each told they are no longer required. As it stood these were the only guys left who were going to be too old for the under 19s if the age group were to be continued next season, so their contracts were due to run out anyway. Suprise, yes, as they were all decent players in my opinion, but its not my opinion that counts for those players. The younger under 19s from the past season would have had another year anyway, and Kyle White, and Liam Polworth are also younger age as they were pulled into the 19s when they were 16 years old.

However, in my opinion, the players who could have or will make it are, Liam Polworth, Ryan Christie, Chubbs and Jack Sutherland. Unfortunately the one who got away in my opinion was Adam MacLeod, who was such a natural goal scorer, and from just about anywhere on the park. Unfortunately he picked up a really serious injury and only managed a few games in his under 19 season before they let him go. Spoke to him last week, and he was talking about Strathspey Thistle. When he signed for them he hadnt even heard of them, set up 3 goals in his first two games coming on a sub up front, but they then started to play him at left back and right back because he was a better striker of the ball and more accrurate than the rest of the team. It was only around Feburary they started playing him further forward, but as a winger, and played in each game they won. It was only towards ther end of the season he started getting his confidence back. Duncan Shearer thought he was one of the most talented youth players he had seen, but Adam was let go before Duncan became the under 19s boss.

Anyway, I would hope to see Liam Polworth push himself into the first team this season coming, well here's hoping

[Alex MacLeod]

What we all have to remember, when blaming Butcher for anything and evrything, is that its the youth coaches who recommend any promotions. They are the people who see, not only the players ability but his attitude.

An example......Ian Vigurs.....Excellent player with delusions of granduer. Trust me I know how he has portraid himself and all he has said about where he should be playing. Same guy, if w believed all that he spouts, has one again signed for County. quote..."my Ian is so good he has asked me if I could live abroad". Please dont question the source......suffice to say his bideein is from Perth.

That attitude is probably why Vigurs was let go.

That attitude is unhealthy if you are a youth trying to make the big time. I'll say to anyone who wants to make it. You are never bigger than the club. You are never bigger than the managers but if you keep your nose clean and you have the ability then you can have greatness. Remember that the coaches are trying to help you.........not the other way around.

[bauhaus]

Youth coaches are the be all and end all for age groups up to 17s. As was the 19s, train along side the first team, and with the first team on a daily basis, Terry will see each players progress. They also attend some of the youth matches, all be it Mo goes to much more of these games. Duncan Shearer will make his report and recommendations to Tel and Mo, but they take the final decision. Its my understanding that one of the boys released was getting an extension until he went into speak to Terry. What changed his mind only Terry and Mo will know, but saying that, we have to trust their judgement as they have made a career out of football and we haven't.

[tm4tj]

Vigurs is abroad, he is on the west coast of the black Isle.

[bauhaus]

Heard he has got a really top notch static, cos he aint going anywhere else at the moment

[kencar]

Do we not have more pressing concerns to worry about rather than bitching about a player who left 3 years ago?

[Alex MacLeod]

For me worrying doesnt start till the first game of the season. Close season is normally for bitching and banter. Sadly this close season seems to be for negativity.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

In my opinion it is THIS close season that is the worst ever by far - even eclipsing last pre season when at least we had the nucleus of a squad. We were caught out by being too late on the scene - becos of the early start - but it feels like our management are the ones who are sipping Pina Coladas on the beach whilst others are grabbing our "stars" and there will only be poor pickings left.

[Alex MacLeod]

Butcher has stated that he has players in mind but is giving those being offered deals at the club the chance to respond. If that is the case then I expect we will see things happening from now on in.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Played his first game for Brora Rangers the other night against County....

http://www.brorarangers.co.uk/player.asp?pid=173

[bauhaus]

Seems that Brora have quite a few old Caley boys now. Dale Gillespie, Stuart Golabeck, Andrew Chubbs Greig, Richie Hart, Grant Innes, Tom Smith and Chris Moir.