Improving the matchday experience at TCS

[old caley girl]

Hi all posted this as a new topic and Iike this to be a POSITIVE discussiion please.

All week there have been posting about the lack of ticket sales, atmosphere etc when we are at home so I wondered if we could come up with ideas to improve things and maybe the club will pick some of them up.

To start the ball rolling what about having a NEW club song written that the players could come out onto the park to. We keep seem to chop and change all the time yesterday I think we were back to "Dont stop believing" and have had such as "Bonanza" in recent weeks.

Secondly I dont like to criticise anyone doing therir best but the stadium announcer sounded like he was working at a funeral yesterday. Not exactly crowd raising and last week he couldnt even pronouce our players names correctly. I beleve even Terry commented out loud yesterday about his tone. When our own Caley D was doing the announcing he used to try different things to get the crowd going such as doing the announcing from the pitch etc Surely something like this could be tried again.

Someone on another thread suggested a pipe band as an idea so I bet between us we have plenty more. We have lots of members on here who dont live in Inverness so have you seen any good ideas at other stadiums foir instance?

Well what does everyone else think!

[Alex MacLeod]

The matchday experience needs to be entertaining. The pipeband really got Murrayfield buzzing yesterday but so did the match. Trouble with pipebands is they cost money. There has to be entertainment of some sort. There has to be music that gets the hackles up. I dont think many who have gone to Gorgie, Ibrox or Parkhead would not admit to letting their feet tap to the music. Even the announcer at Murrayfield done his bit to gee up the crowds.

At the end of the day though, there has to be excitement on the pitch.

[davieB]

We should employ Mr Woo for the HT entertainment.

[dougal]

We need to go back to the great days of yore

From what Ive been told this was a great half time Inverness tradition

Here's some footage maybe some of the older firms will confirm, could be a great money spinner as well as entertainment

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/watch?v=CB4U_VODCQk

dougal

Edited February 5, 2012 by dougal

[SMEE]

I heard the Stadium Announcer yesterday and thought Rev I.M. Jolly Mk II. What a dour individual he is!

You can put on all the peripheral entertainment you want, when all is sed and done, its the team on the pitch that get the crowd motivated. Im afraid, that watching ICT play is like watching paint dry these days. Hence the dour atmos and poor crowds. People want to be entertained.

[Agent N]

Maybe the Club could lookat some way of increasing attendances, for me to take my 5year old to the hearts game cost me £21, for the main stand. I know north stand would have been cheaper, but my season ticket is in the main stand. How about up to 10years the tickets would match the persons age ie £5 for a five year old £6 for a 6 year old etc at 10 years old stick to £10 until 18. Have not thought this out properly more an off the cuff opinion

Edited February 5, 2012 by Agent N

[SMEE]

ONLY hope of getting bums on seats is to DRASTICALLY cut admission prices for adults. Desperate times call for desperate measures. It should be about survival at the cost of profit!

[Alex MacLeod]

We need to go back to the great days of yore

From what Ive been told this was a great half time Inverness tradition

Here's some footage maybe some of the older firms will confirm, could be a great money spinner as well as entertainment

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=CB4U_VODCQk

dougal

Your no wrong there dougal. If we could resurrect the Corries we fill the stadium double over.

ONLY hope of getting bums on seats is to DRASTICALLY cut admission prices for adults. Desperate times call for desperate measures. It should be about survival at the cost of profit!

I'd go along with that if there was a profit. I also think we have proven on numerous occassions that reducing prices for cup games does not increase gate reciepts. We have reuced prices when we've played lower league teams and the crowds have reduced correspondingly.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Alex MacLeod

[+Fraz]

The announcer this week and last was different from usual as he has been away so I'm guessing the stand-in chap doesn't have much experience and may have been a bit nervous, hence the slip ups, but he could have sounded a bit cheerier no doubt. I believe TB may actually have an input to the songs that the team come out to, so they might be his choices.

[SMEE]

Dismissing something, coz it didnt pay off while Playing lesser teams is not a good judge of whether something would work or not. Have to try it across the board. If i was chairman of ICT....id be happier taking in £60k with 5000 bums on seats than i would taking in £60k with 4000 bums on seats.

[Alex MacLeod]

Dismissing something, coz it didnt pay off while Playing lesser teams is not a good judge of whether something would work or not. Have to try it across the board. If i was chairman of ICT....id be happier taking in £60k with 5000 bums on seats than i would taking in £60k with 4000 bums on seats.

Yes but how do you know you'll get that extra thousand bums? And the more people you have the more the cost to police them.

[lukemackay]

i say have a general ticket price at 12.50 and let under 12s in for £5

the tickets will be cheaper for everyone more people will come more will take there children.

and how about a package deal for season tickets? like 2 adults 2 children for £200 in the north stand?

footballs the sport for the masses so why so the prices excede what the masses can afford?

[Tug]

just a thought but how about next season trialing an entire season ticket. meaning that you pay a one off fee that gives you entrance to all the games, cup, friendly the works.

would be a good start if you asked me

[CaleyD]

In terms of prices....if it was me I would rip up the book on season ticket pricing and start again.

1. All children under 12 get free entry to games.

2. Up to age of 16 they pay an amount that would be considered affordable from "Pocket Money".

3. Full time education is the next price level.

4. Adult pricing is the next level

5. OAP Concession (although not as cheap as the FT Education price).

Over and above that I would offer Loyalty Discounts. A bit like a No Claims Bonus insurance scheme.....so second year you get a 5% doscount, third year you get a 10% discount and so long as you keep renewing you keep the discount.

I would also introduce a scheme which allowed people to build up credits/bonus points by helping the club with any projects, maintenance or whatever....things where by assisting you help save the club a bit of cash or add value. These credits can then be used to offset the cost of a season ticket.

Local business could be encouraged to donate to a scheme that offered free or subsidised season tickets to people who genuinely can't afford to come to matches but would like to.

Here's the most radical of ideas, but one I am sure Dougal will appreciate...Season Ticket holders at other SPL clubs can come and trade their Season Ticket Book in as part payment for an ICT one at any point during the season.

Obviously some of these ideas would need some thought and planning...and there's maybe other ideas out there that might be better. We all know that what's there isn't working and we'll never know if other schemes would work if we don't try them (properly).

[CaleyD]

just a thought but how about next season trialing an entire season ticket. meaning that you pay a one off fee that gives you entrance to all the games, cup, friendly the works.

would be a good start if you asked me

My initial thoughts on that were....how do you know how many cup matches we'll have, and it could end up either costing the fan or costing the club.

However, I guess that's part of the gamble and it could also be done on the basis of giving people 4 cup game vouchers in season ticket books which can be used for any round....charge £50(?) for the add-on.

Up to fans then if they want to risk using the voucher for an early round CIS Cup game costing £10 or chance us getting a wee run in the Scottish Cup and saving it for a game that might cost £20 (or more).

Any unused vouchers as a result of us not having had 4 cup games can be used to get a £5 rebate off the next years Season Ticket.

So yeah, it might just be worth exploring.

[old caley girl]

Good ideas on prices so far. Any ideas to improve other areas such as atmosphere ?

[CaleyD]

I think the atmosphere would start to happen if we could start increasing crowds....you certainly can't have one without the other. Yeah, you can have 30 guys/gals in one area being vocal, but that doesn't constitute an "atmosphere".

I'm no stranger to handling "reserved" crowds of people (although not normally thousands of them). I spent over 10 years as a mobile DJ (as opposed to over 35 years as DJ) and never once failed to get a crowd dancing. You need to have things that engage with the fans and encourages them to get involved. I tried that with getting out pitch side and think I had some success...it was just unfortunate that the plan was cut short!!! Not everyone liked what I did, I was called a "dick" and all kinds of other things on several occasions....but I didn't give two hoots. Fans need to take the same attitude in the stands as well. Forget about these people who might "give you a look for making a noise" and just enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it.

Get a bit of banter going between the sections/stands to see who can make the most noise, encourage people to make banners and see who comes up with the funniest/best, have a wear your pants outside your trousers day....anything that gets a laugh and encourages people to lose a few of the inhibitions. Then, toss a few freebies into the areas that come out on top in terms of making a noise or whatever. Freebies don't need to be expensive....you could even get them sponsored so someone else provides clap sticks/noise makers, hats, inflatables etc with their name on.

Pre Match and Half Time entertainment also needs to be engaging....and preferably noisy so people don't have the chance to stand around moaning about the game or the weather....take their mind off that by making them laugh, smile, tap their feet...anything. Crowd participation by way of HT competitions on the park where the people out there aren't representing themselves, they are representing their section....points totalled up over the season and everyone in the winning section gets a free scarf/t-shirt...again anything that is relevant and will identify them as being part of that "team" who worked all season to win it.

Obviously the bigger the crowds the easier these things become, until we grow the crowds we need to condense what we have. To do that, close of sections of the stands unless the capacity is needed....get everyone sitting close. Ok, so you are going to have a few people who won't like that and prefer to sit in silence, but I believe that deep down these people want to enjoy themselves too....and if they don't and are more intent on spoiling it for others then we're not going to miss them so "buh bye"....we'll soon replace them with people who are there to get a bit of craic while enjoying the football or who take enjoyment in seeing others having some fun and are happy to have it going on around them, even if it's not for them.

So yeah, I guess I do have a few ideas

[Charles Bannerman]

How realistic is it to expect significant reductions in ticket prices at Caley Thistle?

The Board's first responsibility has to be to come as close as they can to balancing the books. Recent years have produced losses, albeit not of the catastrophic proportions which can't be sustained and avoiding that surely must be a top priority.

As a result the only real option in terms of ticket income is to try to maximise it and I don't think that demand for tickets would be sufficiently elastic to sustain income in the face of significant price cuts by bumping up crowds all that much.

I know it's tempting for fans to suggest that prices should be reduced and to claim in justification that this would be compensated for by increased crowds.

But would it really?

Would, for instance, knocking a third off ticket prices really increase attendances by the 50% (that's typically 1500-2000 extra at each ICT home game) that would be necessary to avoid the resulting income loss which couldn't be sustained? And when the OF come to visit, it wouldn't even be possible physically to accommodate the extra people you would need to achieve that target, even if the demand was there for it. (No calls for a new West Stand PLEASE!!!)

It's already the case that fans pay into a club for tickets far less than what it costs to put a team on the park, which is normal in football and is why clubs pursue other sources of income.

But one of the main factors here is that the nature of the game is such that your full time paid employees only generate income on average once a fortnight. That is economically illogical but it's the way football is whereas a theatre with a full time cast, for instance, offers shows several times a week.

In the football environment it would be nice to be able to let people in more cheaply but if there is going to be a club there at all at the end of it, then the books need to be balanced so ticket income needs to be maximised.

One possible exception here might be a situation where concessionary rates might initially offered to potential customers (eg free tickets for kids) by way of encouraging NEW business but existing customers might complain if this became too extensive.

I would just want to conclude by suggesting that the reasons for demand for football tickets not being very elastic probably include the effects of televised football and the availability of alternative forms of entertainment - live or otherwise.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[Alex MacLeod]

The big problem with the vouchers for cup games CD is that you dont know if you'll be at home. It is entirly possible that the extra payment you suggest is made and no home games are drawn in that season. As for the number of cup game......for Scottish cup, so long as we're an SPL team we'll only have a possible three games where we can dictate the price. Think its the same for league cup. Semi's and final's are Hampden. So I suppose if you see the draw as being a 50/50 lottery them there should be a chance of at least three home games over both competitions.

I dont know what the answer to pricing is. I think ST's are over-priced. I believe pay on day prices are ridiculuous but I dont have to balance the books but increase the entertainment factor and I'll happilly pay up.

[CaleyD]

Home or away it doesn't matter....the club have to give up half the ticket value to the opposition anyway.

Not saying my price for the add-on is correct, but as with Season Tickets the club need to look at the value of getting that money in early and offset that against the potential loss of us getting 4 cup games....in the exact same way as they have to calculate the discount they give per match on a Season Ticket.

4 cup games and we're starting to make a bit of money from them, so we can happily offset the cost of the gamble, fewer and there's a good chance they've actually made a few quid extra.

I actually don't think our season ticket prices are too bad, but I think the system could be tweaked a bit to "reward" ST holders...giving someone 50% off a matchday ticket is not going to double the size of the crowd, but some kind of loyalty bonus and/or added value on a ST could easily increase numbers sufficiently to cover the cost of the discount...and more.

Cup match prices are a totally different discussion. They are not guaranteed income and every £ made should be seen as "extra" revenue....this (should) give the club scope to find a more sensible balance between making a few quid and not turning people off by over-charging. It doesn't really matter what you and I think is too much, a crowd of 5743 which we would have been lucky to have contributed 2400 ICT fans too AT HOME shows that the prices was too high.

How far do you let that situation go before you realise it's ridiculous? 2000 home fans, 1000, 500? I fully appreciate the need to make money, but somewhere along the way people seem to have forgotten that ICT exists for the ICT fans and it is them who should come first.....in EVERY decision.

Am I the only one who finds it a little worrying that our own fans are priced out of a game on the basis that if our fans don't buy tickets then the opposition will??? Is that mindset not tantamount to threatening/bribing our own fans? Do people really believe that this kind of attitude will bring more fans in for other games, and not actually just drive them away in the long term?

Craig Whyte/Rangers are being slated for mortgaging future season tickets so they can have cash in the bank now, are we not taking the same gamble by over-reaching on cup ticket prices? Yeah, we might have maximised the income from that one game....but at what cost to future income if it turns fans away?

[CaleyD]

How realistic is it to expect significant reductions in ticket prices at Caley Thistle?

The Board's first responsibility has to be to come as close as they can to balancing the books. Recent years have produced losses, albeit not of the catastrophic proportions which can't be sustained and avoiding that surely must be a top priority.

As a result the only real option in terms of ticket income is to try to maximise it and I don't think that demand for tickets would be sufficiently elastic to sustain income in the face of significant price cuts by bumping up crowds all that much.

I know it's tempting for fans to suggest that prices should be reduced and to claim in justification that this would be compensated for by increased crowds.

But would it really?

Would, for instance, knocking a third off ticket prices really increase attendances by the 50% (that's typically 1500-2000 extra at each ICT home game) that would be necessary to avoid the resulting income loss which couldn't be sustained? And when the OF come to visit, it wouldn't even be possible physically to accommodate the extra people you would need to achieve that target, even if the demand was there for it. (No calls for a new West Stand PLEASE!!!)

It's already the case that fans pay into a club for tickets far less than what it costs to put a team on the park, which is normal in football and is why clubs pursue other sources of income.

But one of the main factors here is that the nature of the game is such that your full time paid employees only generate income on average once a fortnight. That is economically illogical but it's the way football is whereas a theatre with a full time cast, for instance, offers shows several times a week.

In the football environment it would be nice to be able to let people in more cheaply but if there is going to be a club there at all at the end of it, then the books need to be balanced so ticket income needs to be maximised.

One possible exception here might be a situation where concessionary rates might initially offered to potential customers (eg free tickets for kids) by way of encouraging NEW business but existing customers might complain if this became too extensive.

I would just want to conclude by suggesting that the reasons for demand for football tickets not being very elastic probably include the effects of televised football and the availability of alternative forms of entertainment - live or otherwise.

Clubs need to ask themselves why they exist....and operate accordingly.

A club which doesn't operate for the fans is no club at all and will quickly cease to exist....not because the fans do not want it to exist, but because it will eventually drive itself into a situation from where it cannot recover.

Granted, some very fine balancing needs to be done in terms of generating enough revenue to sustain the club and doing so in a manner which is affordable to the fans, but it's a sure sign that the balance is wrong when the fans stop turning up....and I believe we are witnessing just that at ICT.

I took little pleasure in predicting the poor turnout by ICT fans on Saturday, but the moment the prices were announced it was fate accompli.

Is it acceptable that ICT should be seen as existing to provide entertainment for the opposition and anything gained from home fans is a bonus? If we repeat the errors of last Saturday, or continue to accept a situation whereby the games authorities can force that upon us, then that is exactly what we will become....shortly before the club is driven to the wall.

All the book balancing in the world will mean nothing then.

[Charles Bannerman]

A club which doesn't operate for the fans is no club at all and will quickly cease to exist

The same applies to a club which fails to keep its books reasonably well in balance. But apart from what I've already said about reductions in ticket prices not being affordable or sustainable, I also think the actual cup situation has a lot to do with it and I'm not sure even if vastly lowered prices would make much difference to crowds.

In other words when you get a televised lunch time kick on a miserable day off during a period of general financial constraint in a competition which seems to be losing its charisma in any case, there's noty a huge amount of incentive for fans to turn up in person. In addition to that, when people have to trim their expenditure, then the extra, marginal cup expenditure will be first to go rather than season ticket purchase for the whole season.

[CaleyD]

You're totally missing the point Charles.

There's more than one way to balance the books and if a club cannot keep prices at a level which is affordable and sustains the fan base then it is a sign that they are spending too much. The answer to that is to trim costs, not increase ticket prices.

Football seems to be caught up in a dangerous mindset that we all have to be doing what everyone else does....but what everyone is doing is not sustainable. Someone at some point is going to have to break with tradition and say "you know what, having a club here for the future is more important than anything else". Instead we live in some fantasy world where everyone believes that if we just keep doing what we are doing then by some miracle it will all work itself out.

It's like being trapped in that Homer Simpson ad where the beer gets caught on the power lines and he hangs there all day and night just grabbing the beer and expecting not to get shocked.

All together now..... :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

[Huisdean]

The one thing about this debate is that it shows that there are ideas the club can try and maximise revenue and improve the match day experience. Some of it may be a risk/gamble but some are simple and would cost nothing. Take the music being played before matches, it does nothing to get the crowd going where, by selecting the correct songs, you could create an atmosphere for no additional cost. Settling on a standard song for the team to come out to would also help.

Hopefully someone will take these ideas forward from the club.

[Heilandee]

1. All children under 12 get free entry to games.

2. Up to age of 16 they pay an amount that would be considered affordable from "Pocket Money".

3. Full time education is the next price level.

4. Adult pricing is the next level

5. OAP Concession (although not as cheap as the FT Education price).

This sounds about right, charging under 12's is a nonsense and puts the price of a "family " day out out of the question straight away, better to get the full price of dad (and poss mum) than skin the family once and put them off forever,Neibours a Jambo with 2 youngsters and visited TCS a couple of weeks back, was dismayed to be charged over £50 for the game, he won't be back any time soon