Should we take a Dive !

[Ten4]

Should our players try taking a dive to get a penalty ?

I think we are owed some fortune in this dept together with the red cards against !

Will we need a penalty to stay clear of relegation- will our opposition go down to ten men in a crucial decider-

Will we need a penalty to get us into the top 6 ?

Which player is the likeliest to take a dive - who is our penalty taker ?

[old caley girl]

1. No

2. Maybe

3. No

4. Dunno

6. pt 1 Gnapka pt 2 I believe its Tansey/

[donjo29]

is this a joke? let other teams do it to us. i would stop going to the games if we started to cheating other teams out of games that could deserve to win!

so no!

[jaggy]

No. It's cheating, unprofessional and not ICT.

[ubern]

This is a ridiculous thread. Of course we shouldn't. If you are looking for divers try the Aquadome

[tm4tj]

Oh I don't know. We should be as streetwise as the other clubs, they don't seem to have a problem making the most of some situations.

Streetwise, not cheating, that's the way forward.

[starchief]

Yes. The game is bankrupt across the world. FIFA/UEFA needs to take the stand to say it's unacceptable. I'd even be in favour of people going down like flies, clutching their faces when they are 10 yards from the likes of Samaras and Naismith.

[een]

When I saw the title of this thread, I honestly thought it referred to us taking a dive into the SFL from the SPL!!

Hopefully, that will not be the case, however, to suggest that we consider diving tactics to result in gaining penalties is nothing more than big time cheating.

Let's concentrate in diving northwards into the top six and forget such flawed tactics.

[CaleyD]

No, but I do understand why some people would see it as acceptable/necessary with the way the game is played and the money that is involved these days.

The line between what is acceptable and what is cheating is a very vague one in football. e.g. Hayes was deemed to have been fouled yesterday and Majstorovic was red carded and sent off...was it "cheating" to have accepted the free kick and try to score from it? Would the Manager/Club fans found it acceptable if we had just stepped up and deliberately played the ball out for a goal kick?

I'm not suggesting we cheated in taking the free kick and trying to score, but there's probably legitimate argument to be had both for and against and the real argument would probably centre around the thought of "where do you draw the line?". For me the line comes at the point where you deliberately set out to win advantage by foul means...and that's a world apart from taking advantage of a decision (however wrong) that is given in your favour.

I think the same can be said when it comes to "going down", it's one thing to set out to deliberately dive and quite another to "go over easy" or make no attempt to stay on your feet....especially since referees, especially in regards to incidents in the box where the attacker has been impeded/fouled, will wave play on in most cases where a player stays on their feet.

Most of us will curse an opposition player who goes over easy and then get hacked off when one of our own has a chance to do the same and doesn't....so I suspect that opinions are formed on a case by case basis and are heavily prejudiced by whether it is going for or against us....but that's football, where rationality isn't high on the agenda when it comes to supporting your team.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Yip there is a big difference, in my opinion, between "cheating" and deliberately taking a fall/dive. The one that really bugs me is - actually quite a skillful and practised art - is when the attacker deliberately strikes his foot against the tackling foot of the defender. BUT there is an art and many would call it a professional "tactic" when you can see a defender over committing themselves, being late and not timing and/or being clumsy and you hold and take the contact. In that instance the "dummy" is the perpertartor and they cannot blame anybody but themselves.

[+DoofersDad]

Of course we shouldn't take a dive but if fouled there need not be any particular rush to get up again unless a clear goal scoring opportunity still exists. Just because officialdom does not enforce the laws of the game as effectively as it should does not give us an excuse for joining the cheats.

Unfortunately, everyone is at it and the amount of holding and shirt pulling in the box at set peices is quite farcical. It just seems to be accepted these days and then when a referee decides that a particular incident is OTT and blows, he is accused of being inconsistent.

The best way to ensure consistency is to actually enforce the laws of the game as they are and not put your own version into play. It's the same with speed limits - police let you go at a few MPH over the limit most of the time and then you get done at a slightly lower speed somewhere else. If you knew that if you exceed the limit and went through a camera that you would be prosecuted then everyone would know where they stood. So in football, if the ref sees a defender holding a player in the box then it's a penalty every time. Coaches would soon stop telling players to do this if they were to give away penalties every time.

Another thing that annoys me is the broad interpretation of shielding a ball when shepherding a ball out of play. Most of the time this is obstruction pure and simple. If this not obstruction then I really don't know what is. Gving the decision the way of the attacker would surely make for more interesting football as the defender would be forced to take control of the ball and actually do something with it under pressure.

[Alex MacLeod]

Nine times out of ten if the attacker jumped over the leg of the defender he'd likely be in a position to score aka Jimmy Johnstone. As it is the attacker has usually made an erse of himself by losing control of the ball and feels the need to redeem himself by kissing the grass. Many players are extremely good at it but its still cheating and I would re-iterate what others have said in that it would put me of supporting my team.

A team that feels they always need penalties to win games shouldn't be playing anyway.

[starchief]

Slightly

...the attacker has usually made an erse of himself by losing control of the ball and feels the need to redeem himself by kissing the grass

Slightly off topic but...

I get annoyed when the striker's missed a glorious chance, then he notices he's been flagged offside. He then proceeds to tell the linesman how blind he is. Personally, if I were the ref, I'd just say, ok, you weren't offside. You missed an open goal you buffoon. Bi-kick then, coz you nearly hit the corner flag, with your bloody awful shot.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Tade does that whether he is offside or not !!

[absent friend]

No, but I do understand why some people would see it as acceptable/necessary with the way the game is played and the money that is involved these days.

The line between what is acceptable and what is cheating is a very vague one in football. e.g. Hayes was deemed to have been fouled yesterday and Majstorovic was red carded and sent off...was it "cheating" to have accepted the free kick and try to score from it? Would the Manager/Club fans found it acceptable if we had just stepped up and deliberately played the ball out for a goal kick?

Don, I accept your point BUT all the media have used the fact that JH got up and ran immediately after the tackle as PROOF that it was not a red card!

Lie down like a wounded soldier and you are more deserving of an award than if you play fair and try to play on. Seems strange to me!

[lukemackay]

we are one of very few teams that dont go down easy, dont take dives and always try to earn our points. that is to be comended not pissed on because not everything goes our way.

i believe its something butcher has drilled into the side that we have to earn our points and not cheat our way to them and i respect it and i think we as a club demand respect for it.

[HumbersideDude]

I would hate to think that an ICT player cheated, ie; dive for a penalty. But I think there is potentially a candidate to do so. Watching Gnakpa on Saturday, he gives the impression he will go down very easily given the opportunity. It is not something that I wish to see from ICT players, but, how many teams have cheated against us by diving for penalties. 2 wrongs don't make it right, but it would be difficult to argue that we are not due a break!

[AJS]

Diving is cheating, end of. Dont care if we go 3 years without a penalty.

[CaleyD]

Despite all the comments against diving and/or going down easy, (at least) one of the clubs biggest ever culprits would instantly be viewed as a legend!!!

[+DoofersDad]

Diving is cheating, end of. Dont care if we go 3 years without a penalty.

I do care if we go 3 years without a penalty. It means the cheating b****rds on the other side are getting away with holding and shirt pulling in the box.

[CaleyD]

No, but I do understand why some people would see it as acceptable/necessary with the way the game is played and the money that is involved these days.

The line between what is acceptable and what is cheating is a very vague one in football. e.g. Hayes was deemed to have been fouled yesterday and Majstorovic was red carded and sent off...was it "cheating" to have accepted the free kick and try to score from it? Would the Manager/Club fans found it acceptable if we had just stepped up and deliberately played the ball out for a goal kick?

Don, I accept your point BUT all the media have used the fact that JH got up and ran immediately after the tackle as PROOF that it was not a red card!

Lie down like a wounded soldier and you are more deserving of an award than if you play fair and try to play on. Seems strange to me!

Jonny also said after the game that he didn't feel he had been fouled....so!!!

It all seems strange to me as well and I was playing Devils Advocate with the quoted questions.

There's no definite answer and we'll never eradicate cheating and gamesmanship....but we should at least make a fist at deterring players from partaking in it.