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Should Hughes be SACKED?


Guest Mahonio

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

 

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

 

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides).  I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

 

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club.  There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need.  I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

 

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

 

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

 

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

 

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility.

If any member of CJT has concerns they would like raised then contact can be made by either emailing [email protected] or by personal contact at our desk in the sports bar pre any home match. Board members are elected to represent members and our personal views may difer from that being raised. However any concerns would be discussed at our meetings and passed on to the club if thought appropriate.

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Personally I thought we were back to our usual fast paced, direct style of play tonight rather than the slower, short passing game that was on show in recent fixtures.   Maybe Hughes was trolling us

I'll have you know that Yogi lets me pick the team every week.

Brill is actually well on the way to rivalling or bettering the amount of clean sheets in a season at 20 (a record currently held by Ryan at 23) This doesn't tally with the current hand-wringing about

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This is getting stooped - I don't want to talk to Kenny Cameron and nor do I want to have any of my views represented by anybody. This is supposed to be a fans forum where anything goes. Unfortunately many appear to miss what is fishing, what is winding up, what is sarcasm and what is serious - irrespective if you share the same perspective.

This forum is becoming a bit of an "I am right and this is who I am" competition and "let's see how many quotes and length of response that I can make". There will always be happy clappers and there will always be whinged moaners, there will always be batters and there will always be biters.

It is rich coming from me but scoring points through personal ribbing is also becoming a bit of a norm. I would hope that most will presume that it is purely wind up from me but there is a tinge of nastiness at times - which you never get from the likes of Dougal.

Some choose to remain anonymous which is their right but is a shame as far as I am concerned whilst some are well known and in the limelight - where CaleyD undoubtedly falls foul. This irritating thread has gone on too long. It is like City fans calling for the head of Pellegrino. Or it could be like Martinez changing the style of Everton when many worshipped Moyes. And then there is Moyes ?

Bottom line is Hughes will be here at the start of next season - experimentation will continue during the split - it will be fair play to have a go next season and if there is criticism to be made then I will add to it with explanation and rationale.

And seriously google aftermath of a narcissist becos Butcher has caused most of this - Hughes was on a hiding to nothing and many may have swerved the job in such recognition. And then there was our own expectations and I bet there were some who were thinking that we were going to win both cups, be in the top three and get into Europe.

So projections of anger and frustration are rife. Hughes is the readily accessible target and anybody who fits the bill of being hoodwinked employees or influenced others viewed as being in league with the devil.

From a feckin psychological perspective - get a feckin grip ya bunch of erse holes and hit the feckin Smirnoff.

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

 

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

 

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides).  I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

 

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club.  There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need.  I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

 

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.  

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

 

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

 

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility.

If any member of CJT has concerns they would like raised then contact can be made by either emailing [email protected] or by personal contact at our desk in the sports bar pre any home match. Board members are elected to represent members and our personal views may difer from that being raised. However any concerns would be discussed at our meetings and passed on to the club if thought appropriate.

 

 

Sorry but you are missing my point, was just passing an opinion I have no need to bring it up in the form of a complaint 

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

 

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

 

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides).  I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

 

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club.  There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need.  I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

 

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.  

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

 

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

 

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility.

If any member of CJT has concerns they would like raised then contact can be made by either emailing [email protected] or by personal contact at our desk in the sports bar pre any home match. Board members are elected to represent members and our personal views may difer from that being raised. However any concerns would be discussed at our meetings and passed on to the club if thought appropriate.

 

 

Sorry but you are missing my point, was just passing an opinion I have no need to bring it up in the form of a complaint merely an observation.

 

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides). I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club. There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need. I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility. If any member of CJT has concerns they would like raised then contact can be made by either emailing [email protected] or by personal contact at our desk in the sports bar pre any home match. Board members are elected to represent members and our personal views may difer from that being raised. However any concerns would be discussed at our meetings and passed on to the club if thought appropriate.

Sorry but you are missing my point, was just passing an opinion I have no need to bring it up in the form of a complaint

It needn't be a complaint, feel free to pop along before any home game to fully discuss your opinions too.

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides). I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club. There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need. I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility. If any member of CJT has concerns they would like raised then contact can be made by either emailing [email protected] or by personal contact at our desk in the sports bar pre any home match. Board members are elected to represent members and our personal views may difer from that being raised. However any concerns would be discussed at our meetings and passed on to the club if thought appropriate.

Sorry but you are missing my point, was just passing an opinion I have no need to bring it up in the form of a complaint

It needn't be a complaint, feel free to pop along before any home game to fully discuss your opinions too.

Aaaaaahhhh don't ya just love sarcasm !!

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Lol I can see why you might think that Johndo but actually I'm being 100% genuine. We're more than happy for other fans to come and have a chat. It could be a question, travel booking, problem or just a hello. It can get lonely standing there!

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides). I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club. There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need. I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility. If any member of CJT has concerns they would like raised then contact can be made by either emailing [email protected] or by personal contact at our desk in the sports bar pre any home match. Board members are elected to represent members and our personal views may difer from that being raised. However any concerns would be discussed at our meetings and passed on to the club if thought appropriate.

Sorry but you are missing my point, was just passing an opinion I have no need to bring it up in the form of a complaint You misunderstand me. We are happy to hear fans opinions. If you don't come and tell us how are we meant to know? As Fraz says we are happy just to have a chat etc

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What this thread shows without any doubt whatsoever is that, rightly or wrongly, a lot of fans have some significant concerns about some of what they have seen on the pitch and heard off it. Only a small proportion of the fan base contribute to the forum but the numbers coming through the turnstiles shows that these views are widely held and are impacting on the club.  Clearly folk at CJT are well aware of this and it doesn't need anyone to specifically request someone from CJT to discuss it with the club for CJT to raise the fact that there is a concern.  One would expect that when it is clear that a significant number of folk on this forum have a particular viewpoint / concern, CJT would raise it with the club regardless of whether it is a view personally held by them.  Hopefully that is the way things work now so forgive me if I am eroneously picking up an impression that issues will generally only be discussed with the club if their is a personal request or if the issue has been posted on the "ask the club" forum. 

 

I would also echo what IHE said about the forum being a place where fans can post views about anything without being subject to personal abuse in response.  The fact that a poster has not also personally raised it with the club does not make those views any less legitimate.  As long as contributions are within the rules of the forum they should all be welcomed.

 

 

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides). I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club. There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need. I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility. If any member of CJT has concerns they would like raised then contact can be made by either emailing [email protected] or by personal contact at our desk in the sports bar pre any home match. Board members are elected to represent members and our personal views may difer from that being raised. However any concerns would be discussed at our meetings and passed on to the club if thought appropriate.

Sorry but you are missing my point, was just passing an opinion I have no need to bring it up in the form of a complaint You misunderstand me. We are happy to hear fans opinions. If you don't come and tell us how are we meant to know? As Fraz says we are happy just to have a chat etc

 

 

I posted my opinion on here thats what this forum is for, like I said previously I have no gripe with the work that CJT are doing,  CaleyD was kind enough to respond to my initial post that I think that things have become "to cosy" and I understand that as CJT want to keep a healthy relationship with the club to keep communication going. What my initial post was aimed at was that CJT board members seem to refrain from posting that they might be concerned with when things aren't going well and i stick by that opinion. 

 

Can I ask you, taking of your CJT hat and just as a fan, do you have any concerns about Hughes as a manager ?

 

I am pleased  to hear that you are happy to hear fans opinions, but you can also read them on here.

Edited by gordieict
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Gordie (and DD) Believe me, there is no "cosiness" about relationships between CJT and ICTFC. If there are things to be said to the club on behalf of the membership then that gets done at whatever level it needs to be done at up to and including the Board and Chairman. Likewise, if there are fan issues that need addressed they will approach us even if we might not agree. It's a mature relationship which is completely transparent and has to be - if it was any other way at a club our size, it wouldn't work. But we tend to deal in matters of fact and requirement, not opinion which is what this thread is. DD, you are right CTO represents the views of a part of the Caley Thistle support and it's clear that there are divergent opinions even in that one part of the support (or this thread wouldn't exist)  Neither pro nor anti John Hughes supporters can extrapolate other arguments out to suppport others - linking our crowd size ( a challenge that existed long before John Hughes arrived) to his management of the club isn't valid as there isn't clear supporting evidence and doesn't demonstrate that there is a wider body of discontent. It could equally be put down to the price of attendance, timing of matches or any number of factors. At the moment, we lie 5th in the League and may well finish higher, have been to a cup final and a quarter final of another, established dominance over our closest rivals and remain in with a chance of qualifying for europe. That's all fact and on that basis I'd have a hard job going to the club and complaining about the direction of the mangement of the club. Next year? We'll judge that on it's merits at the time or as directed to by our membership.

Davie Balfour

Chairman CJT

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This forum is becoming a bit of an "I am right and this is who I am" competition and "let's see how many quotes and length of response that I can make".

................

And seriously google aftermath of a narcissist becos Butcher has caused most of this - Hughes was on a hiding to nothing and many may have swerved the job in such recognition. And then there was our own expectations and I bet there were some who were thinking that we were going to win both cups, be in the top three and get into Europe.

So projections of anger and frustration are rife. Hughes is the readily accessible target and anybody who fits the bill of being hoodwinked employees or influenced others viewed as being in league with the devil.

 

I see you're still persisting with the false view that the anti-Hughes camp are suffering from rejection at the hands of Terry Butcher and that the man jumped ship before it had the chance to sink, preserving his ego.

 

I think how we reacted as a fanbase after he left proves that first theory of yours as being BS, the threads are all recorded on here if you want to go back and find me the scores of jilted TB fanbois to prove me wrong.  If you cannot then your analysis is wrong and nobody gave a sh1te that he left, the players themselves had a visible lift in spirits for a period aswell.  This site was buzzing after Butcher joined Hibs, everybody was looking forward to what could come next after him, not desperately trying to cling on to the guy.

 

As for our expectations being too high at the point Hughes arrived, thats garbage, we were points clear with games in hand of Aberdeen in 2nd when Hughes came in.  We were comfortably the 2nd best team in Scotland at that stage and had qualified to face the worst team in the SPL in a semi final of a competition that Celtic had been knocked out of, we were 10/11 favorites to win the LC at the time with Ladbrokes.  Expectations might have been high but they were realistic, nobody was talking about winning the league were they?  If anything I would accuse our fanbase overall of having too LOW expectations, the majority clearly believe that Hughes was the best possible candidate at the time and is the man to lead us into the future, speaks volumes.

 

 

Infact further to this post, wasnt it Steve Marsella that most on here were worried about losing, rather than Butcher? lol

Edited by clacher_holiday2
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Gordie (and DD) Believe me, there is no "cosiness" about relationships between CJT and ICTFC. If there are things to be said to the club on behalf of the membership then that gets done at whatever level it needs to be done at up to and including the Board and Chairman. Likewise, if there are fan issues that need addressed they will approach us even if we might not agree. It's a mature relationship which is completely transparent and has to be - if it was any other way at a club our size, it wouldn't work. But we tend to deal in matters of fact and requirement, not opinion which is what this thread is. DD, you are right CTO represents the views of a part of the Caley Thistle support and it's clear that there are divergent opinions even in that one part of the support (or this thread wouldn't exist)  Neither pro nor anti John Hughes supporters can extrapolate other arguments out to suppport others - linking our crowd size ( a challenge that existed long before John Hughes arrived) to his management of the club isn't valid as there isn't clear supporting evidence and doesn't demonstrate that there is a wider body of discontent. It could equally be put down to the price of attendance, timing of matches or any number of factors. At the moment, we lie 5th in the League and may well finish higher, have been to a cup final and a quarter final of another, established dominance over our closest rivals and remain in with a chance of qualifying for europe. That's all fact and on that basis I'd have a hard job going to the club and complaining about the direction of the mangement of the club. Next year? We'll judge that on it's merits at the time or as directed to by our membership.

Davie Balfour

Chairman CJT

 

Davie

 

Thanks you kindly for you reply.

 

I haven't suggested that CJT should go to the board about Hughes at this stage, as I also don't think its something that should be done at this stage and hopefully will never get to that stage.

 

My main gripe was that if members of the CJT board are not prepared to give an honest opinion on concerns they may have about Hughes management then they shouldn't be criticising those that do. I also said previously that perhaps it is just a coincidence that CJT have no concerns but that would surprise me as a large majority of ICT fans  that I speak to are concerned 

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At the moment, we lie 5th in the League and may well finish higher, have been to a cup final and a quarter final of another, established dominance over our closest rivals and remain in with a chance of qualifying for europe. That's all fact and on that basis I'd have a hard job going to the club and complaining about the direction of the mangement of the club.

 

Where were we in the league when Hughes was appointed?  I'm sure using CJT's resources you'll be able to have an old Courier or something in hand with a league table.

 

On a serious note, what is the process for a fan to raise an issue with the club via yoursell's?  How about a detailed explanation of the managerial recruitment process from the SPFL Chairman of the Year, what due diligence was taken with regards to Hughes?  Did we contact the likes of Hamilton to ask why they didn't take him on?  Was his multiple past failures at clubs of various sizes and leagues taken into account during the process?  How intensive can an interview be when the response to "who will you bring in as assistant?" gets a reply of "a dinnae ken lyke, al hink aboot it fer 6 weeks"?

 

Whats the story behind Bennett leaving?

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Gordie (and DD) Believe me, there is no "cosiness" about relationships between CJT and ICTFC. If there are things to be said to the club on behalf of the membership then that gets done at whatever level it needs to be done at up to and including the Board and Chairman. Likewise, if there are fan issues that need addressed they will approach us even if we might not agree. It's a mature relationship which is completely transparent and has to be - if it was any other way at a club our size, it wouldn't work. But we tend to deal in matters of fact and requirement, not opinion which is what this thread is. DD, you are right CTO represents the views of a part of the Caley Thistle support and it's clear that there are divergent opinions even in that one part of the support (or this thread wouldn't exist)  Neither pro nor anti John Hughes supporters can extrapolate other arguments out to suppport others - linking our crowd size ( a challenge that existed long before John Hughes arrived) to his management of the club isn't valid as there isn't clear supporting evidence and doesn't demonstrate that there is a wider body of discontent. It could equally be put down to the price of attendance, timing of matches or any number of factors. At the moment, we lie 5th in the League and may well finish higher, have been to a cup final and a quarter final of another, established dominance over our closest rivals and remain in with a chance of qualifying for europe. That's all fact and on that basis I'd have a hard job going to the club and complaining about the direction of the mangement of the club. Next year? We'll judge that on it's merits at the time or as directed to by our membership.

Davie Balfour

Chairman CJT

 

Davie

 

Thanks you kindly for you reply.

 

I haven't suggested that CJT should go to the board about Hughes at this stage, as I also don't think its something that should be done at this stage and hopefully will never get to that stage.

 

My main gripe was that if members of the CJT board are not prepared to give an honest opinion on concerns they may have about Hughes management then they shouldn't be criticising those that do. I also said previously that perhaps it is just a coincidence that CJT have no concerns but that would surprise me as a large majority of ICT fans  that I speak to are concerned 

 

Gordie,

No problem. I think maybe that you have to understand that CJT board members do have their own opinions (I certainly do!) but do't voice them in the interests of impartiality. As OCG and me have said, we are only a Board who act on the instruction of the membership and for the most part that means not pre-empting things by voicing opinions. Occasionally, when it's put forward as a personal point of view it's ok but usually it's better to avoid opinion (personal opinion :wink:

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

 

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

 

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides).  I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

 

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club.  There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need.  I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

 

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

 

 

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

 

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

 

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility. 

 

 

Just to be clear.  I have not been a CJT Board Member for about 7 or 8 months now.

 

I think my views on Hughes are well documented on here and elsewhere, but in summary....I believe that there are far too many factors outwith his (and the clubs) control which have contributed to us not getting the results/performances we might have hoped for.  I also draw comparisons to previous seasons when results/performances at this time of year have been much the same or worse.  I like what he is trying to do with the team/squad.  I like the fact that talented young players are being given a real opportunity.  I'm heartened by the fact that players are invested in his vision for where he wants to take things. I'm encouraged by his willingness and ability to actively change things when it's not going right. I share the players belief in him...this is not only evidenced in interviews they give to the press bu by their actions in signing extended contracts etc.

 

Do I like losing games? No.

 

Do I have any immediate concerns about Hughes as a Manager? No.

 

Do I buy into the theory that just because things aren't going our way then we need a fall guy? No.

 

Do I think it would have been any different under TB or any other manager? No.

 

It's human nature to want to attach definite cause to any effect.  I choose to look at the wider picture and take all aspects of the situation into account whilst others, IMO, seem to be solely focused on a single element...the manager.  There's really no arguing with many of these people, especially when they choose to ignore the possibility of alternative causes, dismiss counter arguments by claiming stuff being said is toeing the party line or lies, accuse those of making the arguments as being in some kind of cosy situation with the club or being somehow beholden to be non critical.

 

You might argue that in refusing to accept an argument which points the finger of blame squarely at the manager then I am doing the same thing.  I don't think so.  I acknowledge that some people have that view and whilst I have dismissed it, I believe I have done so with reasoned argument based on all the information to hand.

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

 

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

 

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides).  I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

 

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club.  There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need.  I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

 

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

 

 

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

 

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

 

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility. 

 

 

Just to be clear.  I have not been a CJT Board Member for about 7 or 8 months now.

 

I think my views on Hughes are well documented on here and elsewhere, but in summary....I believe that there are far too many factors outwith his (and the clubs) control which have contributed to us not getting the results/performances we might have hoped for.  I also draw comparisons to previous seasons when results/performances at this time of year have been much the same or worse.  I like what he is trying to do with the team/squad.  I like the fact that talented young players are being given a real opportunity.  I'm heartened by the fact that players are invested in his vision for where he wants to take things. I'm encouraged by his willingness and ability to actively change things when it's not going right. I share the players belief in him...this is not only evidenced in interviews they give to the press bu by their actions in signing extended contracts etc.

 

Do I like losing games? No.

 

Do I have any immediate concerns about Hughes as a Manager? No.

 

Do I buy into the theory that just because things aren't going our way then we need a fall guy? No.

 

Do I think it would have been any different under TB or any other manager? No.

 

It's human nature to want to attach definite cause to any effect.  I choose to look at the wider picture and take all aspects of the situation into account whilst others, IMO, seem to be solely focused on a single element...the manager.  There's really no arguing with many of these people, especially when they choose to ignore the possibility of alternative causes, dismiss counter arguments by claiming stuff being said is toeing the party line or lies, accuse those of making the arguments as being in some kind of cosy situation with the club or being somehow beholden to be non critical.

 

You might argue that in refusing to accept an argument which points the finger of blame squarely at the manager then I am doing the same thing.  I don't think so.  I acknowledge that some people have that view and whilst I have dismissed it, I believe I have done so with reasoned argument based on all the information to hand.

 

 

I only hope you are right :wink:

 

I am curious as to what those alternative causes are and how they came about so quickly after TBs departure when we were sitting 2nd in the league?

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I think that some have become to cosy because they happen to have some involvement with the club that that they would never criticise the board/management no matter how bad things might get.

 

If that's aimed at me, then you couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I may not be so publicly critical of the club as I once was, but there's reason for that and it has nothing to do with becoming "cosy".

 

There's two main reasons for it.....firstly, having people at the club who are willing to directly listen and take on board the views of the fans....and secondly, in allowing me to do what I do for the club there is the need for an element of trust (from both sides).  I trust that if I raise a matter with the chairman he will give it due consideration and he trusts that I won't abuse the access and information that's made available to me and which allows me to improve communication with fans.

 

I receive no salary and am not an employee of the club.  There is no contractual obligation for me to refrain from being critical of anything...and I am critical when I see need.  I'm pretty sure if you spoke to Kenny Cameron he would attest to the fact that I can be as big a pain in the ass now as I've always been when I get my dander up over something....I just don't see the need/benefit in doing that on a public forum when I can speak to the man direct.

 

I would also add that anyone could phone up and ask for an appointment with the Chairman if they have an issue they wanted to discuss and it would be welcomed....just not this week as he's away for a few days.

 

 

It wasn't just aimed at yourself but more those involved in CJT at the higher level, I have never seen one of them on here once expressing a worry about the way things are going under Yogi, perhaps its a coincidence and they are all happy and have no concerns going forward.

 

I would question your reply about how you don't need to post on here if you are not happy with things yet will have a dig at fans that do have concerns. There is not much point in coming on a forum unless you put your views across.I hope you can understand that why this is as seen as just defending the club because you have relationship when as you explained this is not the case.

 

I do not want this to be seen as a dig at CJT who I think are doing a remarkable job, however they like us are just fans and there is no real point on coming on a forum unless an honest opinion is put across or in my view that opinion losses credibility. 

 

 

Just to be clear.  I have not been a CJT Board Member for about 7 or 8 months now.

 

 

 

They need to updated their website then   :smile:

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Gordie (and DD) Believe me, there is no "cosiness" about relationships between CJT and ICTFC. If there are things to be said to the club on behalf of the membership then that gets done at whatever level it needs to be done at up to and including the Board and Chairman. Likewise, if there are fan issues that need addressed they will approach us even if we might not agree. It's a mature relationship which is completely transparent and has to be - if it was any other way at a club our size, it wouldn't work. But we tend to deal in matters of fact and requirement, not opinion which is what this thread is. DD, you are right CTO represents the views of a part of the Caley Thistle support and it's clear that there are divergent opinions even in that one part of the support (or this thread wouldn't exist)  Neither pro nor anti John Hughes supporters can extrapolate other arguments out to suppport others - linking our crowd size ( a challenge that existed long before John Hughes arrived) to his management of the club isn't valid as there isn't clear supporting evidence and doesn't demonstrate that there is a wider body of discontent. It could equally be put down to the price of attendance, timing of matches or any number of factors. At the moment, we lie 5th in the League and may well finish higher, have been to a cup final and a quarter final of another, established dominance over our closest rivals and remain in with a chance of qualifying for europe. That's all fact and on that basis I'd have a hard job going to the club and complaining about the direction of the mangement of the club. Next year? We'll judge that on it's merits at the time or as directed to by our membership.

Davie Balfour

Chairman CJT

Thanks Davie.  I'm not suggesting CJT go to the club and complain, I am merely suggesting that the level of concern on this issues is such that the club should be aware of it.  Any successful business should want to know when it's customers are not happy.  We may be fans, but we are also the club's customers.  Of course, it would be silly to imagine you would go to the Board in response to every little thing individuals may raise on CTO and you have to use your judgement as to when it is appropriate to raise a matter.  That judgement will no doubt be influenced by your greater knowledge of what is going on at the club. 

 

I am in no way questioning the manager's position, indeed, from what I have seen of Hughes I really like the man and very much hope he succeeds.  But without repeating the arguments raised in this thread, I would suggest that there are precious few fans who do not have some level of concern about what they have seen or heard.  This thread is remarkable for it's lack of people posting that they think Yogi is doing a great job.  There are clearly some who want him gone but I think the majority view can be summed up as "Hmm.  Not great so far but fingers crossed it all works out".  You may, of course, disagree with my assessment of the mood of the fans and I fully accept that you are in a better position than me to assess it.  All I am saying is that if my assessment of the mood of the fans is correct, then it is something I would expect CJT to ensure the Board is aware of. 

 

I read CaleyD's upbeat post with interest and sincerely hope he is correct.  There are things I like about Hughes as well, but equally there are things which concern me which I don't think can be ignored.  I'll give one example - the apparent desire to pass the ball out of defence at all cost.  We have lost goals through doing this and yet it has been suggested that it will continue and all that needs to happen is that the players need to get used to the idea and get better at doing it.  Let's be clear, there is nothing wrong with hoofing it when a defender is under pressure - Liverpool scored a great goal at the weekend which started with a defensive hoof up the park leading to a swift passing attack, and they are top of the EPL.  What is needed is a bit of balance between philosophy and the reality of the situation and of the abilities of players.  The evidence from too many games recently is that Yogi may insist on a style that gets the balance wrong.  CaleyD's post suggests that Yogi may have the flexibility to learn from mistakes and to get the balance right.  If he does, then we could be in for exciting times, but if not ....

 

 

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Gordie (and DD) Believe me, there is no "cosiness" about relationships between CJT and ICTFC. If there are things to be said to the club on behalf of the membership then that gets done at whatever level it needs to be done at up to and including the Board and Chairman. Likewise, if there are fan issues that need addressed they will approach us even if we might not agree. It's a mature relationship which is completely transparent and has to be - if it was any other way at a club our size, it wouldn't work. But we tend to deal in matters of fact and requirement, not opinion which is what this thread is. DD, you are right CTO represents the views of a part of the Caley Thistle support and it's clear that there are divergent opinions even in that one part of the support (or this thread wouldn't exist)  Neither pro nor anti John Hughes supporters can extrapolate other arguments out to suppport others - linking our crowd size ( a challenge that existed long before John Hughes arrived) to his management of the club isn't valid as there isn't clear supporting evidence and doesn't demonstrate that there is a wider body of discontent. It could equally be put down to the price of attendance, timing of matches or any number of factors. At the moment, we lie 5th in the League and may well finish higher, have been to a cup final and a quarter final of another, established dominance over our closest rivals and remain in with a chance of qualifying for europe. That's all fact and on that basis I'd have a hard job going to the club and complaining about the direction of the mangement of the club. Next year? We'll judge that on it's merits at the time or as directed to by our membership.

Davie Balfour

Chairman CJT

 

Davie

 

Thanks you kindly for you reply.

 

I haven't suggested that CJT should go to the board about Hughes at this stage, as I also don't think its something that should be done at this stage and hopefully will never get to that stage.

 

My main gripe was that if members of the CJT board are not prepared to give an honest opinion on concerns they may have about Hughes management then they shouldn't be criticising those that do. I also said previously that perhaps it is just a coincidence that CJT have no concerns but that would surprise me as a large majority of ICT fans  that I speak to are concerned

Gordy I'm more than happy to post my personal opinion and that is that I'm happy to wait and see. So I suppose I'm in the jury is out camp? Much too early to be concerned yet IMO.

I have to say that I also speak to a large number of fans and find most feel like me and don't share the concerns posted by some on here. I'm also not sure how representative CTO, twitter is off fans opinion tbh. It can't be proved either way?

Therefore if you wish your concerns/views/whatever brought to the notice of CJT it's probably better to make contact personally IMO.

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Hate quotes Wine Shed Benefit Day Reviewed Claim but:

 

Laughing my head off (sorry) from a purely psychological perspective but your response actually supports my theory :lol: :lol: :lol: - fer feck sake read between the lines please - if you can. :blush:

 

Please look at aftermath of a narcissist on google as it feels that you - and the people who liked yer post - were co-dependents. Your expectations - as you stated - were grandiose and influenced by a very clever and evidently influential narcissist. :wave:

 

Steve Marsella the biggest loss - LOL 2

 

Hughes was not my first or second choice but he was probably the "safest" of what we had - and many had dodged it becos of the Butcher situation.

 

Jhesus - how can you say expectations were high AND realistic - book me in fer a chat !!

 

Let me ask some questions ?  - Should Butcher have stayed ? If he had would we have accomplished more ? Did his departure cause problems for ICT? Why did he leave ? AND FINALLY - did he really give a feck about ICT ?

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Personally couldn't give  Flying Fart about CJT or the people that make it a big part of their lives!  - What the hell has this got to do with Yogi? About time this nonsense was closed down!

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