F***ing Referees

[CaleyD]

Full Story Here

I wouldn't grudge them the money if they were up to scratch, but ?1000 per game for the performances they provide is a taking the Michael.

[caley100]

I'm quite surprised they get ?575 per game - plus expenses, what a waste of money for shyte refs.

They should be on a bonus scheme, make a howler and get money deducted, do a good job and get extra.

[Kingsmills]

I'm quite surprised they get ?575 per game - plus expenses, what a waste of money for shyte refs.

They should be on a bonus scheme, make a howler and get money deducted, do a good job and get extra.

In my opinion they are well enough paid for what's essentially a part time hobby.

[Guest Calum-Red-an-Blue]

Maybe its a little bit much of a rise to be asking for,(and it should be a graduall rise over the seasons) but... being the ref can be an etremely tough job and you are always going to be someones enemy. I feel that some refs have maybe earned it.

If a ref WAS to get paid that sum of money for a game it could see an increase in the amount of people training to make it as a ref, cashing in on this healthy sum of money. As i beleive that numbers have been falling on the amount of new refs in football.

As for bonus scheme, to the fans it would be the perfect answer, but the refs themselves will just not accept it and undoubtedly go on a strike over it.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Calum-Red-an-Blue

[TomCaleyJag]

BBC REPORT

The row over referee's fees is threatening to delay the start of the SPL season apparently.

Edited August 5, 2008 by TomCaleyJag

[Yngwie]

Apparently they are also angry that they don't get enough support from the SFA and SPL when there performances are criticised, such as McCurry's shambles at Rangers v Dundee Utd.

I appreciate they have a difficult job, but seeing how much they get paid leaves with no sympathy for them when they are criticised for bad performances.

[MichaelICT]

The SPL is a shambles.They just signed some ?125,0000 contract with setanta and they can't fork out at least ?50,000 to be distrubuted equally among the refs in Scotland. If the league doesn't give the ref's the raise and the games are postponed then it makes our league look like a laughing stock ( and not for the first time). Come on Lex Gold. Sort this out!

[Scotty]

The referees are asking for a 39% wage rise. That is unrealistic, especially when you consider the quality of work produced by most of them.

[MissICT]

hmmm.....

Refs don't desrve that much.

[caley100]

Scottish referees are employed by the SFA, and we ( clubs) pay the SFA for their matches.

Anyway its only the TOP referees in England that get ?1000 our refs would, as our teams be equal to the mid /lower championship, so wonder what referees at that level would get.

[ICT90]

if its delayed what happens to train tickets ??

[TomCaleyJag]

if its delayed what happens to train tickets ??

You have to buy new ones

This is a disgrace though, as people like me and ICT90 who aren't made of money have already paid for train tickets. The refs are usually s***e, and now their governing body is also s***e. Brilliant. :thumb04:

[SMEE]

Lets be honest folks.......?575 for 2 hrs work..........GREED plain and simple and an insult to the average working person. get them all to ****

[Heilandee]

Lets be honest folks.......?575 for 2 hrs work..........GREED plain and simple and an insult to the average working person. get them all to ****

Bit simplistic to take the ?575 as payment for 2 hours work as many unpaid hours over many years are required to get to the top grade and some incentive is required to get fresh blood into refereeing,that said i think they should be performance related with some form of unbiased adjudicator rating the performance as many are simply woeful

[Kingsmills]

There may be merit in that suggestion but it would be difficult to implement.

[Scotty]

I think referees should be fairly paid. However, unless we are going to go down the route of salaried full time referees who are accountable for their decisions, and whose performances are closely monitored, then a raise from ?575 to ?1000 for a top level match is ludicrous.

I used to think full time referees might be a good thing - and it still may be depending on the actual ref - but after witnessing one of the most inept performances from a full time official that I have ever seen this past weekend at the Toronto FC V FC Dallas game I wonder.

I do have some sympathy for refs in that it usually takes them quite some time to progress from their local association where they referee amateur or welfare league games for ?20 or ?30 a pop to running the line at non-league games for a little more, to reffing these games and then through the grades required to ref in the 3rd, 2nd, 1st and then the Premier and beyond. It does take dedication, it does take discipline and many may not make it, but you could say the same thing about players or anyone else in a job where they have to reach a certain level before promotion to the next one. That sympathy disappears when you hear of demands like this and the potential to hold the national sport and the fans of that sport to ransom.

[alternative maryhill]

I think referees should be fairly paid. However, unless we are going to go down the route of salaried full time referees who are accountable for their decisions, and whose performances are closely monitored, then a raise from ?575 to ?1000 for a top level match is ludicrous.

I used to think full time referees might be a good thing - and it still may be depending on the actual ref - but after witnessing one of the most inept performances from a full time official that I have ever seen this past weekend at the Toronto FC V FC Dallas game I wonder.

I do have some sympathy for refs in that it usually takes them quite some time to progress from their local association where they referee amateur or welfare league games for ?20 or ?30 a pop to running the line at non-league games for a little more, to reffing these games and then through the grades required to ref in the 3rd, 2nd, 1st and then the Premier and beyond. It does take dedication, it does take discipline and many may not make it, but you could say the same thing about players or anyone else in a job where they have to reach a certain level before promotion to the next one. That sympathy disappears when you hear of demands like this and the potential to hold the national sport and the fans of that sport to ransom.

I've thought for some time that having a pool of full time referees in Scotland might be a good thing, and this dispute has convinced me even more. The duties of the job could surely be expanded to include training of up-and-coming referees, a personal skills development programme and some form of ambassadorial work for scottish football or promotion of health and fitness, for example in schools.

Although referees do have a difficult job and work hard to get where they are, I still feel the fees being quoted are too high for what is currently very much a part-time job, carried out mostly, it would appear, by men who have well-paid main jobs. Inevitably, refereeing must impinge on their main jobs to some extent. For example, a friend and fellow teacher works alongside an SFA Grade 1 referee. This guy apparently gets a fair amount of time off for various refereeing commitments and there is some degree of resentment among the staff who are asked to cover his classes. I imagine this resentment would increase if they felt he was being paid ?575 per game and still looking for an increase on top of his teacher's salary.

By making the job full time for, say, a pool of 15-20 referees, the SFA would prevent the possibility of the posts being filled by men who might be compromising both their main jobs and their refereeing skills; they would allow greater scope for training and development, thus (hopefully) improving the standard of refereeing in Scotland; and they would also be job creating and spreading the wealth a bit (my woolly socialism has always been a bit outraged that lawyers and teachers and ministers are being paid for their hobby when others could be given a full time job instead).

Edited August 5, 2008 by alternative maryhill

[Scotty]

MLS has - I think - 4 full time referees and the danger seems to be that these referees feel the game becomes more about them than the players. I know there are some refs we could probably say that about already but when they are put on a par with the players, the egos do tend to come out even more !!!

Canadians tend to be very polite and sporting but the full-time ref at Toronto FC V Dallas this past weekend had to be escorted from the field by Toronto police (and stayed in the stadium until 7:30pm, nearly 2 hours after the final whistle) after a string of ludicrous calls that culminated in two red cards for TFC players and 20,000 fans singing "**** you ref" in unison for the last 10 minutes !!!

The first red was possibly justified (hard to tell - it was for an elbow at far end of pitch from where I was) but it was equally hard to tell for the ref who had to run 30 yds (from the left wing position where the ball actually was) to issue a straight red to Toronto's Amado Guevara and (with the score at 0-0) award a penalty against TFC. When the incident happened, you could see the linesman (who apparently had a good view) flagging and when the ref talked to him it was clear that he was indicating that any incident happened well outside the box. The ref over-ruled him and was heard to berate him and tell him that he was the full time official and the penalty and red card would stand !!! Needless to say the penalty was scored and just 5 minutes later another player was red carded for dissent about the incident and Dallas went on to score their second.

This ref has a history with several teams and many fans around MLS despair when his name is mentioned because it seems that full time status has brought out the ego in him and he thinks he is infallible.

If we are to have full time refs then there would have to be some form of monitoring and accountability to avoid numpties like the one I saw this weekend.

[Scotty]

I've thought for some time that having a pool of full time referees in Scotland might be a good thing, and this dispute has convinced me even more. The duties of the job could surely be expanded to include training of up-and-coming referees, a personal skills development programme and some form of ambassadorial work for scottish football or promotion of health and fitness, for example in schools.

This idea has some merit .... so long as there is monitoring of performance and more accountability as I mentioned in last post.

[ICT90]

Strike averted

[Scotty]

not really averted, just caving into their demands of a 39% increase instead of the 4.74% initially offered.

I guess it is better than the near 74% rise that the ?1000 demand would have been !!!

[CaleyD]

The Refs have the SPL by the balls, and they know it.

It's not just coincidence that they waited till the week before the season was due to kick off before making their demands...they knew the SPL could not deny them some sort of settlement.

I also don't buy the argument about the SFA not doing enough to protect them. They are out there on the pitch making decisions on games, and sometimes they get them so wrong it's unbelievable. If they can call a player a cheat and wrongly issue him a red card then they have to learn to suck it up when someone chooses to criticise their performance. Referees getting a hard time isn't anything new and they were aware of that when they decided to get involved in the profession.

[RiG]

The referees are asking for a 39% wage rise. That is unrealistic, especially when you consider the quality of work produced by most of them.

Especially someone like McCurry who turned in an absolute shambles of a performance at Ibrox against Dundee United.

if its delayed what happens to train tickets ??

You would get about 50% of your fare back.

[Scotty]

If we accept that referee wages are artificially low (not sure I do, but lets assume so for a second) and a big pay rise was needed to bring them even somewhat into line with other leagues, then I hope this ongoing discussion focuses on bringing their performances and level of accountability into line with those other leagues.

A 39% wage rise should mean a huge improvement in the standard ......... but I won't hold my breath

[Yngwie]

I was going to suggest that rather than extra cash, the refs could get free tickets to Rangers European ties.