Kilmarnock -V- ICT : matchday thread

[starchief]

To be fair to Barrowman, he was hardly ever played. When he was played, he was either played out of position or didn't receive the service he needs.

Barrowman was the first choice striker in the SPL. Rooney scored more goals than him, even though he had to come off the bench. Barrowman was a far poorer striker than Rooney and offered up a lot less in terms of being a target man or creating chances for others.

[latviaman]

Rooney appears to be Butchers favoured striker - but why? I'd be embarrassed of his strike ratio.

Because he's big I reckon. Butcher has had one constant at every team he's been at - long high balls towards a target man. A boring and mostly ineffective style of play. No wonder almost all of his teams fail.

Butcher is welcome back to Sydney any time, take in the sights, catch a ferry, maybe a latte at a beachside cafe, just do not let him anywhere near an impressionable young footballer. Will infect them with long ball strategy, dogged spirit and tactical ineptitude.

Not slagging TB off just rings bells !!!

[Fanoffooty]

I think we should get back on topic

How did Lionel get on today ?

[Alex MacLeod]

We were beaten today by the team that is the in form team of the SPL at the minute. What I hear is that we played very well and made a few chances so personally I have no problem with the defeat.

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Jay_7 Rooney is joint second top scorer in the league so how can he be embarrassed with his strike rate.

In all comps this season:

Griffiths Played 27 scored 17

Rooney played 27 scored 12

Harkins played 28 scored 12

[Jay_7]

We were beaten today by the team that is the in form team of the SPL at the minute. What I hear is that we played very well and made a few chances so personally I have no problem with the defeat.

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Jay_7 Rooney is joint second top scorer in the league so how can he be embarrassed with his strike rate.

In all comps this season:

Griffiths Played 27 scored 17

Rooney played 27 scored 12

Harkins played 28 scored 12

That's not a strike rate. Strike rate is number of goals scored from shots taken. I'd put money on Rooney having one of the worst goals from shots ratio in the country, never mind the league.

[Wilsononourwing]

We were beaten today by the team that is the in form team of the SPL at the minute. What I hear is that we played very well and made a few chances so personally I have no problem with the defeat.

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Jay_7 Rooney is joint second top scorer in the league so how can he be embarrassed with his strike rate.

In all comps this season:

Griffiths Played 27 scored 17

Rooney played 27 scored 12

Harkins played 28 scored 12

That's not a strike rate. Strike rate is number of goals scored from shots taken. I'd put money on Rooney having one of the worst goals from shots ratio in the country, never mind the league.

Even if he has the worst goal from shots ratio (evidence required) he is still the 2nd highest GOALscorer in the league. Also if he has the worst ratio as you say he does then he and the team must be doing something right to make so many chances. If we weren't a good team (in this league) then surely we wouldnt be making all these chances that you say Rooney is missing.

Last year Torres hit 14 goals from 86 shots, six shots per goal. Thats a lot of shots for arguably one of the best strikers on the planet. Then two seasons ago you had Ronaldo with 186 shots scoring 31 goals a similar ratio - again a lot of shots. Im now intrigued by Rooneys strike rate. If its less than six could I then argue he is one of the best strikers in the world ..............no that would be SILLY!!

Edited February 6, 2010 by Wilsononourwing

[Badly_Drawn]

Too bad Alan Combe wasn't playing for Killie today by the sounds of things....

[HumbersideDude]

Win lose or draw, the fans who sang non stop for 40 min and done the CONGA thanks. It was the best crack at the FITBA i've had in many a year. Even if the wee witch of a steward tried to get me chucked out was funny. . Respect to the 70 or so who sang thier hearts out for 40 min in 2nd half.

[kencar]

Just watched the highlights on TV. Shocking 'defending' from Bulvitis & Lionel. Golly better be back in the team next week it's just a shame we have no one to replace Bulvitis. Was he injured when he was subbed or was it because he was hopeless?

Glad our away support enjoyed themselves regardless of the result. I doubt I would be so happy after spending that time and money to watch us shoot ourselves in the foot

Edited February 6, 2010 by kencar

[Yngwie]

Agreed.

[WYNESS101]

Game was very poor but the support was sh*t hot. Best game i've ever being to were the fans sang the same song for the whole of the 2nd half :021:

[A96]

Only four Scots in our starting line-up today. A statistic that concerns me. We've lost the heart of our team. Our ex-players meantime are shining elsewhere. Gary Wood gets a hat-trick today and Dougie Imrie gets MOTM in the SPL. Our defence has never been the same since Darren Dodds left.

Maybe we should start doing what we always did in the the past - buy up all the decent R*ss C**nty players. Mind you, they are still in the cup, scoring lots of goals, winning games and chasing promotion to the SPL. Why would any of them want to come to ICT?

Can't fault our front players today though they deserved a few goals - but for an inspired Killie goalkeeper. Defence was mince. Usual suspects at fault.

[jaggie1994]

Has anybody stopped to think that we were playing away from home against and SPL team. Fair enough we conceded 3 crappy goals but apart from that we did well. We created a fair amount of chances but unsurprisingly the SPL team had the quality to keep us out

They beat Celtic 1-0 in midweek and some people on here are trying to make this result the start of some crisis

Get a grip. We had a decent run in the cup. We were beaten by a team we all knew were better than us going into the game and I reckon we gave a decent account of ourselves

[+DoofersDad]

We were beaten today by the team that is the in form team of the SPL at the minute. What I hear is that we played very well and made a few chances so personally I have no problem with the defeat.

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Jay_7 Rooney is joint second top scorer in the league so how can he be embarrassed with his strike rate.

In all comps this season:

Griffiths Played 27 scored 17

Rooney played 27 scored 12

Harkins played 28 scored 12

That's not a strike rate. Strike rate is number of goals scored from shots taken. I'd put money on Rooney having one of the worst goals from shots ratio in the country, never mind the league.

So if a striker decides he will only shoot when he gets into a position where he has an open goal from 6 inches and can't miss and as a result only has one shot all season from which he scores, then by your reasoning he will have a strike rate of 100% and be the greatest striker in the world. Get real!

[+DoofersDad]

Has anybody stopped to think that we were playing away from home against and SPL team. Fair enough we conceded 3 crappy goals but apart from that we did well. We created a fair amount of chances but unsurprisingly the SPL team had the quality to keep us out

They beat Celtic 1-0 in midweek and some people on here are trying to make this result the start of some crisis

Get a grip. We had a decent run in the cup. We were beaten by a team we all knew were better than us going into the game and I reckon we gave a decent account of ourselves

Back on subject. Well said!

From the brief highlights on TV it was clear this was a decent effort. With the rub of the green and a different left back the result could well have gone the other way. The league is the main business and there's no reason why we can't still make a serious challenge.

[Granty24]

We were beaten today by the team that is the in form team of the SPL at the minute. What I hear is that we played very well and made a few chances so personally I have no problem with the defeat.

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Jay_7 Rooney is joint second top scorer in the league so how can he be embarrassed with his strike rate.

In all comps this season:

Griffiths Played 27 scored 17

Rooney played 27 scored 12

Harkins played 28 scored 12

That's not a strike rate. Strike rate is number of goals scored from shots taken. I'd put money on Rooney having one of the worst goals from shots ratio in the country, never mind the league.

So if a striker decides he will only shoot when he gets into a position where he has an open goal from 6 inches and can't miss and as a result only has one shot all season from which he scores, then by your reasoning he will have a strike rate of 100% and be the greatest striker in the world. Get real!

Haha nice one,, i cannot believe that this argument is even happening, jay_7, how can you even think Barrowman is better than Rooney when he has scored the same amount of goals in one game this season than barrowman did in his 18 months here. It doesnt matter if you miss four or five chances in a game, as long as you make up for it with a goal, which Adam has been doing this season. If you look t our last 3 games, he has gained us 7 points with his winners or equallizers. I am delighted barrowman has gone. Not even good enough for our bench when he was one of our highest earners? Co*nty are welcome to him. After his hat-trick (if the first was actually his) Garry Wood will probable be kept in the squad for now.

[Renegade]

Only four Scots in our starting line-up today. A statistic that concerns me. We've lost the heart of our team. Our ex-players meantime are shining elsewhere. Gary Wood gets a hat-trick today and Dougie Imrie gets MOTM in the SPL. Our defence has never been the same since Darren Dodds left.

.

Agree with the bit in bold, but I also feel that the fact that there is absolutely no leader on the park whatsoever is a big factor. Munro can be a very efficient centre half, but I feel it's a bit ironic that he doesn't wear a captains armband, as he's no captain at all. You never see him shouting or rallying the players, and a leader needs to be found ASAP cause ICT will be going nowhere until that problem is solved.

[Kylef]

would usually have a slow depressing drive back home after a defeat, but wasnt like that tonite. i can only put that down to the absolutely amazing atmosphere today - truly fantastic. only reason i didnt join is because i had a gig tonite and ive learnt from past games to save the vocal chords.

just want to make the point the scoreline really flattered killie. did nothing special. we had a good few shots, but seems Bell is in the form of his life in the last two games hes played which ive seen.

im not a lionel hater as much as most on here....but hes back to his old tricks. did absolutely nothing right today, and was at fault for at least something for the goals probably. woeful. should never have took Golly out.

[Charles Bannerman]

County win 9-0 and we lose 3-0. Sounds really bad.

But looking up the match stats on the beeb it seems we were unlucky and county just had one of those days.

Make no mistake about this. County were absolutely devastating here against a Stirling team that weren't actually all that bad. County were a good deal more than competent and the Stirling keeper had a few good saves, including one early in the 2nd half which denied Gardyne his hat trick before Wood, deprived of the opportunity to take the penalty by Brittain, eventually got his. During the last 20 minutes I thought County looked especially strong which I think may well be down to the Brewster influence in what seems to be a very effective partnership in Dingwall. What I have just said might not go down very well here, but that's how it was.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Charles Bannerman

[stevico1]

County win 9-0 and we lose 3-0. Sounds really bad.

But looking up the match stats on the beeb it seems we were unlucky and county just had one of those days.

Make no mistake about this. County were absolutely devastating here against a Stirling team that weren't actually all that bad. County were a good deal more than competent and the Stirling keeper had a few good saves, including one early in the 2nd half which denied Gardyne his hat trick before Wood, deprived of the opportunity to take the penalty by Brittain, eventually got his. During the last 20 minutes I thought County looked especially strong which I think may well be down to the Brewster influence in what seems to be a very effective partnership in Dingwall. What I have just said might not go down very well here, but that's how it was.

I think Brewster may well have found the role that suits him, I don't think anyone ever doubted his fitness coaching and with Adams doing the tactics it does seem to be a good combination

Edited February 7, 2010 by stevico1

[stevico1]

We were beaten today by the team that is the in form team of the SPL at the minute. What I hear is that we played very well and made a few chances so personally I have no problem with the defeat.

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Jay_7 Rooney is joint second top scorer in the league so how can he be embarrassed with his strike rate.

In all comps this season:

Griffiths Played 27 scored 17

Rooney played 27 scored 12

Harkins played 28 scored 12

That's not a strike rate. Strike rate is number of goals scored from shots taken. I'd put money on Rooney having one of the worst goals from shots ratio in the country, never mind the league.

While I think Rooney sis a decent player I am curious as to how many of his 12 this season were from penalties

[stevico1]

In the days when we were seen as giant killers we had a squad that had been together for a few seasons and who had gelled together, got on well with each other and played for each other. It will take time to build up that sort of camaraderie, workmanship. honesty and belief again but I have no doubt it will happen.

Alex,you obviously have more faith than me that we will still have the majority of this years squad with us next season.

[alternative maryhill]

For 20 minutes or so we were decent and had more possession and chances than Killie. After the first goal went in the team looked panicky and lost its fluency. Bulivitis seems to be getting a lot of the blame for the first goal: I've got to be honest and say I don't remember the build-up to it, only the fact that the ball seemed to hang in the air for an age and everyone seemed taken aback when it dropped into the net. The second seemed to bobble nonchalantly through the defence and it felt like someone should have cleared it before it went in, but that might be being harsh; I'd have to see it again. Second half we had, or were allowed, more of the possession but didn't do a great deal with it. It's true that Cammy Bell made a lot of decent-looking saves, but I don't think any of them came into the "miraculous" category; rather, they were in the "you'd expect him to get that" category. The attackers worked hard throughout, though, and Odihambo looked decent when he came in. The deeper-lying midfielders were anonymous and the defence had a bad day at the office. It happens. There's no point in hand-wringing about it: let's see how they respond at Kirkcaldy next week.

Our supporters were brilliant. "Jimmy says Aye to a Killie pie" semed to evolve out of a bit of casual abuse-slinging about him being a wee fat overdone b******; someone sang it, people laughed and took it up; it became hypnotic and took on a life of its own, inspiring waves and congas and dance moves. There was a lovely moment when a conga, inevitably led by IHE, came down the steps on its second circuit, met a steward with "immovable object" written in her eyes, and cheerfully executed a neat u-turn. 40 minutes of this, with the police and stewards poised and various people filming, and Calderwood never once acknowledged us, the sour-faced knob. Probably thinking about his next pie.

It was disappointing to see us lose so cheaply to a very unspectacular SPL team, and it does underline the fact that we don't look strong enough to go on the sort of winning run that could give us a chance of promotion, but it's not a disaster and shouldn't inspire the re-emergence of some angst-ridden debate about the squad and management.

[Scotty]

I'm not sure how you work that out. I tend to judge my strikers on goals and since Rooney has scored more for us than Barrowman then in my book he's better.

To be fair to Barrowman, he was hardly ever played. When he was played, he was either played out of position or didn't receive the service he needs. Rooney appears to be Butchers favoured striker - but why? I'd be embarrassed of his strike ratio.

Rooney:

08/09 (SPL) - 6 goals in 36 appearances (11 starts, 25 sub) = strike rate of 16.66 %

09/10 (SFL) - 13 goals in 31 appearances (17 starts, 14 sub) = strike rate of 41.93%

Overall - 19 goals in 67 appearances (28 starts, 39 sub) = strike rate of 28.36%

Barrowman:

08/09 (SPL) - 2 goals in 33 appearances (15 starts, 18 sub) = s/r of 6.06%

09/10 (SFL) - 1 goal in 8 appearances (2 starts, 6 sub) = s/r of 12.5%

Overall - 3 goals in 41 appearances (17 starts, 24 sub) = s/r of 7.31%

[Yngwie]

denied Gardyne his hat trick before Wood, deprived of the opportunity to take the penalty by Brittain, eventually got his.

One of them was really an own goal, not Wood's. He badly sclaffed at a cross, it was going to trundle about 20 yards wide until the backtracking defender got in the way and diverted it in.

Although thats a bit like arguing that in Arbroath's 36-0 win, the 27th was actually offside.