Formation/tactics

[Renegade]

What would your tactics and formations be for the rest of the season? For me it's simple, attacking football at home and a more cautious approach in away games. I believe that you've got to put a team out on the park that is there to score goals for fun, especially in homes and using your best players and at times like this ICT must win every game. If that means playing four striker then so be it.

Home

For home games my starting formation would be:

--------------------------------------------Esson------------------------------------------------------

--------Proctor------------Mihadjuks----------------------Munro/Duff-------------Djebi-Zadi/Hastings----

----------------------------Tokely---------------------------Black--------------------------------------

--------Morais--------------Rooney--------------------------Foran------------------Imrie---------------

I'm a big believer in attacking football and the 4-2-4 formation. I know that folk on here will look at it and say that it's absolute nonsense but I don't believe in puting up say the 4-4-2 just for the sake of it being popular. Esson in goal as he is the best keeper at ICT right now, Proctor in at right back and he can also double up at right wing when in attack (this formation could also go as a 2-4-4 when in attack as Brazil do/did) and he's also fast enough to keep up with opposition wingers while Tokely is not. Mihadjuks in there at centre-back with either Grant Munro or Jamie Duff in as well. I don't hugely rate Munro and believe that if Duff was to get a good run he could go on to be the next Darren Dods or Bobby Mann. I actually reckon he could well be captain in 6 or 7 years. Djebi Zadi in at left back so he can long runs down the wing and go forward in attack whilst using his pace, though if he's in poor form I'd go along with Hastings in at left back or possibly Roy McBain and if this lot are all injured/garbage then Gathuessi. Tokely in the midfield as I feel he'd do well in this position and if there's two in the midfield then he could be used be make it presense felt, he wouldn't be caught out of position as he does at right back and he'd be able to go forward far more easily and after all he is a great offensive threat. Black in beside as he's a very good playmaker and can make stuff happen in the midfield, I'd also consider Lionel Djebi-Zadi and also Hastings (the latter played in a defensive midfielder sort of role for Canada at the last Gold Cup, in which he did very well and caught into the "Team of the Tournament"). No Duncan as he's a liablity and is terrible at passing and also not someone like McBain either as he's passed his best though I would consider Brian Kerr. Up front it'll be Filipe Morais on the right, Imrie on the left and Foran and Rooney as the inside forwards. Every striker could also rotate and change position to full there markers should they need to. The 4-2-4 is very effective in the way that it puts pressure on every defender provding they play four at the back. If they go with three at the back then they'll be muredered with four up front.. Also if they stay up the park, the opposition team would have to hold their defenders back, if not a couple of midfielders to deal with this. Say the oppoistion plays 4-4-2 then they might have to change it to 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 to deal with this. It would also be a dangerous formation when on the counter attack. Also if there is any hoofing then there is far more people to aim at up the park but ICT have always been a better team when the balls played on the deck, the pitch is even built that way to encourage passing to the wings. Far more strikers mean more goals and you'd see far more exciting play and scorelines like 3-2 and 5-4 would still keep ICT in the SPL.

Away

Away from home I'd take a more cautious approach:

-------------------------------------------------Esson-------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------Mihadjuks---------------Duff-----------------Hastings/Munro------------------------------------

---Morais-------------------Black----------------Tokely----------------Duncan/Djebi-Zadi------------------Vigurs----------

----------------------------Foran------------------------------------------Rooney----------------------------------------

A 3-5-2 will crowd them midfield and hopefully also able to gring out a result away from home by crowding the midfield, with big players of Djebi-Zadi and Tokely could be used effectively in the midfield could crowd out opposition players and by using their presense. This of course was the formation Steve Paterson was very keen and look how popular his style of play was. Keeping the ball on the deck again to hopefully get the ball the front two. This formation could also adjust to 5-4-1 should it need to.

Old Firm

For the Old Firm games ugly football's got to be used. I'd go with something like:

------------------------------------------------Esson-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------Proctor------------Mihadjuks--------------------Munro/Duff--------------Hastings/Djebi-Zadi-----------------

---Morais-----------------------Tokely-------------------------Black----------------------Vigurs/Foran------------------

-------------------------------------------------Imrie------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------Rooney/Foran-------------------------------------------------------------

Crowd out the midfield and a strong defence means containing Celtic and Rangers. Rangers seem to concede a lot of goals against ICT in the last minute so possibly go on heavy attack towards the end of the game if it is a score draw at that point.

I'll stop here cause if I go on this'll probably need covers and chapters but this is what I'd do if I were ICT manager. But what would you do?

[FortressICT]

I agree with your home team, but instead of Tokely put in Kerr and drop Morais and Imrie into attacking midfield positions.

Never play 3 at the back away from home. Just a simple 4-4-2 would do. 2 strong lines of 4 then Rooney and Foran up top.

[KingBeastie]

Ok, so we finally sort out our defence which has been a problem all season and get a settled, good, confident back 4 (Tokely, Mihadjuks, Munro and Zadi) and you want to throw that away?

Lets leave the tactics, selections, formations, etc to TerrynJune as they are doing a pretty good job so far and concentrate on doing our role as supporters by being the 12th man that we need in this relegation fight and cheering the team on at every game left this season.

[Yngwie]

People might have success with 4-2-4 in Football Manager etc, but how many teams actually use it? There are good reasons why they don't.

[Guest natasha]

I would agree what most people are saying but I thought Kerr when he came on looked like creative midfield player which we lack, someone who looks for the ball then uses it.

[kencar]

Our formation for the rest of the season will be 4-4-2

[Guest Muir-Jaggie]

Our formation for the rest of the season will be 4-4-2

keep it at that we'll stay up

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Fer fecks sake - has anybody actually bothered to read the first post - and he accuses me of self importance, talking keek and being over critical. :thumb04: :018: ;)

Butcher is clearly committed to the 4-4-2 and I suspect that he will continue to stick to the back / midfield 9 as long as they are a winning outfit. It is very much nine men behind the ball away from home and hit on the counter tactics. At home he looks to having at least 6 behind the ball with two holding players and two forward movers.

I still feel that he will change the front two - he surprised everybody by his Castle Greyskull formation. I still hope that he is awaitng the fitness of Foran and Morais before giving them a new role - Rooney I suspect will be his substitute card.

[Renegade]

People might have success with 4-2-4 in Football Manager etc, but how many teams actually use it? There are good reasons why they don't.

Brazil won World Cups with it and it has also been used successfully by Santos and Palmeiras. The Hungarians were also big on it too. It's pretty simple really, strong defence + strong attack = success.

[PullMyFinger]

People might have success with 4-2-4 in Football Manager etc, but how many teams actually use it? There are good reasons why they don't.

Brazil won World Cups with it and it has also been used successfully by Santos and Palmeiras. The Hungarians were also big on it too. It's pretty simple really, strong defence + strong attack = success.

That's where the system is fundamentally flawed for us - strong attack? Where are they coming from?

[Renegade]

Well, more strikers mean a stronger attack but I reckon that is perhaps the only place where ICT lack something at the momnet is up front. A prolific striker is needed in the summer.

[Renegade]

Fer fecks sake - has anybody actually bothered to read the first post - and he accuses me of self importance, talking keek and being over critical. :thumb04: :018: ;)

Butcher is clearly committed to the 4-4-2 and I suspect that he will continue to stick to the back / midfield 9 as long as they are a winning outfit. It is very much nine men behind the ball away from home and hit on the counter tactics. At home he looks to having at least 6 behind the ball with two holding players and two forward movers.

I still feel that he will change the front two - he surprised everybody by his Castle Greyskull formation. I still hope that he is awaitng the fitness of Foran and Morais before giving them a new role - Rooney I suspect will be his substitute card.

Eh don't think I did actually. You just need to bow down before my mangerial excellence after all I am an expert on these matters. Everyone knows my formations and line-ups would work as has being proven by the World Champions, I am the next manager in waiting but I am just waiting in the wings...for now.

[Renegade]

People might have success with 4-2-4 in Football Manager etc, but how many teams actually use it? There are good reasons why they don't.

And why's that then?

[tm4tj]

Just because.

[ICTFCkev]

People might have success with 4-2-4 in Football Manager etc, but how many teams actually use it? There are good reasons why they don't.

Brazil won World Cups with it and it has also been used successfully by Santos and Palmeiras. The Hungarians were also big on it too. It's pretty simple really, strong defence + strong attack = success.

Right.. So you aren't seriously comparing the likes of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo Etc.. To the mighty Dougie Imrie and Richie Foran?

[Libero]

People might have success with 4-2-4 in Football Manager etc, but how many teams actually use it? There are good reasons why they don't.

Brazil won World Cups with it and it has also been used successfully by Santos and Palmeiras. The Hungarians were also big on it too. It's pretty simple really, strong defence + strong attack = success.

that made me laugh, how on earth can you compare the Brazilian national team to ICT! Formations and tactics are only as good as the players trying to use them. Butcher knows our limitations, strengths and weaknesses and will use a formation to suit that.

Well, more strikers mean a stronger attack but I reckon that is perhaps the only place where ICT lack something at the momnet is up front. A prolific striker is needed in the summer.

bizarre logic there. numbers do not always = strength. Who has the stronger line up here; Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto or Barrowman, Rooney, Imrie?

[AJS]

People might have success with 4-2-4 in Football Manager etc, but how many teams actually use it? There are good reasons why they don't.

Brazil won World Cups with it and it has also been used successfully by Santos and Palmeiras. The Hungarians were also big on it too. It's pretty simple really, strong defence + strong attack = success.

Totally different team, totally different players and totally different style of football. Brazil are nothing like ICT.

After watching Brewster try to create his formations and player positions that created nothing but disaster i would settle for a basic 4-4-2. Basic football with a basic formation is what we have needed for ages. Not entirely easy because apart from Filipe Morais we have no real width in our midfield but having watched us in recent games it looks like our set pieces our vital. The likes of Pavels, Foran and Tokely have proved key with their flick ons and headers, its just Scottish football, sometimes it isn't pritty.

[Ronaldo]

The plan should be to keep an eye on the round white thing.

And Brazil had success because they scored more goals than the oppostion, they never gave a flying you know what about conceding goals.

[Caley Stan]

Brazil won World Cups with it and it has also been used successfully by Santos and Palmeiras.

And Brazil had success because they scored more goals than the oppostion, they never gave a flying you know what about conceding goals.

Which Brazil team are we talking about here boys?

Brazil haven't played with out-and-out wingers for a very long time and it was Brazilians who invented the 4-4-2 and have more or less stuck with it since. Most of Brazil's success in the last couple if decades has built on a solid defence, solid holding midfield players and shackling their most creative players for the benefit of the team (exactly what TB is doing at ICT).

Brazil have won more World Cups than Italy. The two nations have scored a similar amount of goals, but Brazil have a superior defensive record.

Now enough of all this Brazil nonsense

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Renegade is a feckin Brazil nut - I suspect he requires my professional help. :thumb04:

[Renegade]

bizarre logic there. numbers do not always = strength. Who has the stronger line up here; Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto or Barrowman, Rooney, Imrie?

Depends who has the ball at the time.

[Renegade]

Link

If you look at some of these formations from the Australian team under Guus Hiddink you'll see that they used the 4-2-4 formation against Bahrain and a few other attacking styles so these are still being used such as Japan's 3-3-4 and Australia's 3-3-3-1 . Also notice that Brazil used a slightly more defensive form of the 4-2-4.

And also notice what Man U and Roma a now doing. They both use a 4-6-0 formation, with four players going forward in attack thus making the 4-2-4.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Renegade

[Caley Stan]

Renegade, in many ways i admire how open-minded you are on the subject of tactics and formations.

However, the examples you give are not relevant to the situation that ICT are in.

The main concern for teams like Brazil, Man United and Roma (and Australia and Japan during qualification) is how to break down inferior and often extremely defensive teams. They have to vary the way they employ their attacking players in order to do this.

When ICT play in the SPL we come up against teams that have superior players, or very well organised teams with players at a similar level to our own. In such circumstances, playing 4-2-4 would be suicidal.

Can you think of an example of a small team fighting relegation who have played in this way?

[FortressICT]

West Brom in the championship last season started games 4-2-4 but their two wingers upfront, for the 1st 10mins of a match. They nearly always scored at least 1 in the 1st 10mins using that tactic. Then just move back to 4-4-2 for the rest of the game.

[Northern_jaggie]

i often wonder why managers dont adopt this tactic of changing formation at a certain point during a game. Say you were to brief inverness that on 60 mins, regardless of the score, push a few players alot higher up the field. or swap wingers, throwing the man marking system. Even sitting player back in out own half inviting them on, then five mins later 4-2-4 then back to 4-4-2. It would be difficult to adapt quickly to a team that was well organised. Coaching men individually could help, it would put immense pressure on a few of the opposition players.

As they said in braveheart...

Hit and run...the highland way....