Where is the £250k?

[givmeaccccc]

Why can't we afford Ross Tokely when we have just received £250k. What is it going to be spent on, new dross from the lower English leagues?

[Yngwie]

The club makes a loss of several hundred thousand pounds every year and needs that sort of injection every year to keep us full-time and solvent.

[+Fraz]

The club makes a loss of several hundred thousand pounds every year and needs that sort of injection every year to keep us full-time and solvent.

Yeah, this was my understanding. Money was for keeping things ticking over (i.e. general operating costs) for another season rather than a 'war chest'.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

smokescreen - "an action intended to conceal or confuse or obscure.

derisory offer - "Although their meanings have coincided since their first appearance in the 17th century, in current use they are for the most part kept separate, derisive meaning 'scoffing, scornful' as in derisive laughter and derisive remarks and derisory meaning 'ridiculously small or insignificant' as in a derisory pay offer"

Unfortunately Ross Tokely's offer had nothing to do with money. It was closely related to the discipline of power and control.

[12th Man]

I also recall a poster previously stating that there were a few things to be done off the pitch, I think the concourse area in the main stand was mentioned,I dont know if that is still the case but if theres a shortfall then I would assume thats the priority. But I am envious of the main stands south concourse area.

If someone wanted to start supporting ICT this is a bonus getting a seat here, as at half time you can go and get a pie in the warmth, a blessing in the middle of winter, the decors nice and you can watch half time football on the TVs. ( this is because its the ICT bar area before and after the match)

[gordieict]

To be honest a £250k injection is not a lot of money in terms of keeping the club running. I think ICT are now suffering from not only the general decline of Scottish football but a history of very poor marketing, something that St Johnstone with similar attendances have got right meaning they can afford to offer players better deals than us

[Charles Bannerman]

Yngwie and fraz have got it bang on. Yes, I do realise that throughout football, when a club "comes into money" there is the expectation among some fans that a slice of this will be spent on boosting the player pool.

But in practice it is so often the case, as it is here, that the club concerned needs the money merely to continue to operate at current levels - or indeed to reduce the size of cutbacks.

In the year to 2011, Caley Thistle lost £190,000. The previous year in the First Division that was £946,000. Also during 2010-11 it was necessary to sell the Social Club which was more or less the last remaining significant asset, and the 2011 accounts also refer to Directors' Loans and state that "a number of existing shareholders purchased 250,000 at £1 each". This is not to be confused with the later Muirfield Mills injection which will presumably now ease the magnitude of losses for the next financial year to 2012 which ended on Thursday.

In other words, for Caley Thistle to continue to survive in the SPL - and it looks to me as if even that is in a climate of contracting budgets - it appears to have become necessary to rely on a series of "one off" windfalls like the ones I have mentioned.

It's if these begin to dry up that would create a real worry.

However I would want to emphasise that all I have done above is to outline what I understrand to be the general financial situation at Caley Thistle. What I have not commented on - partly because I don't know the details - is the series of decision which I assume will have been made about how a reduced player budget is used and allocated among prospective signings/ contract extensions - including, until the end of last week, Ross Tokely.

[gordieict]

Charles would be very interested to know what your thoughts on the treatment of Tokely are, or does spinning the party line not allow you to do that?

[Charles Bannerman]

Charles would be very interested to know what your thoughts on the treatment of Tokely are, or does spinning the party line not allow you to do that?

It's not a case of "spinning the party line". This is a running story which I am actively engaged in reporting on and it has been my consistent policy on here for many years not to comment as a result. This is also why I have been completely circumspect towards the end of my last post.

[gordieict]

ok so what is your thoughts on the way Tokely has been treated ?

[Alex MacLeod]

Bear in mind also that the difference between 10th and 7th (our position last season) is around £180,000. St Johnstone dont have much better marketing than us. The difference with them this season is they finished 4 places above us giving them £240,000 extra. They are also budgeting on getting a few extra quid from a european tie.

[bauhaus]

ahh but st johnstone may well be attracting more well known or percieved better players, but to recruit these players the wage demands will be far greater than ours, and unless they have a pot of gold, they will record losses, as £240k wont cover the difference in cost of attracting several of the players they did last season.

[lukemackay]

with st johnstones attendences, im shocked at the amount of players they are bringing in. i think there could be trouble brewing for them.

as long as we stay up we should be able to keep our books balanced. some added interest with the derbies, we could do ok next year in terms of cash. but aslong as we arnt in unpayable debt im happy. if that means we cant buy players or compete with other clubs with wage demand etc i dont care, id rather have a club to support in 20 years time what ever league that may be in, than a successful one now.

Edited June 3, 2012 by lukemackay

[gordieict]

Alex the 250k that is brought in by St Johnstone is a similar amount that we recently got from the Muirfield investors Either they are doing something better than us or are heading for trouble

[gordieict]

unless of course they are following the Rangers business strategy

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

with st johnstones attendences, im shocked at the amount of players they are bringing in. i think there could be trouble brewing for them.

as long as we stay up we should be able to keep our books balanced. some added interest with the derbies, we could do ok next year in terms of cash. but aslong as we arnt in unpayable debt im happy. if that means we cant buy players or compete with other clubs with wage demand etc i dont care, id rather have a club to support in 20 years time what ever league that may be in, than a successful one now.

That is actually quite "deep" and admirable. It has actually struck a chord with me. Thank you very much young Luke. I have just remembered thinking like that many moons ago.

[Alex MacLeod]

Looking at their accounts to 31st May 2011 they are actually a fairly well off club. Cash in bank = £1,095,904. Liabilities = £498,895. Assets = £1,842,945. Net Worth = £1,952,514. They have a very successful lottery that builds up a decent jackpot very quickly. Last weeks winner scooped £16,500. Tickets are sold in every pub in perth as well as a number of shops. They also have a very successful banqueting and conferencing business. All of which was built into the stadium they got for free. They make money from renting out their all weather pitches and have a constant stream of people dining at the stadium every day.

[Jeepsaw]

Looking at their accounts to 31st May 2011 they are actually a fairly well off club. Cash in bank = £1,095,904. Liabilities = £498,895. Assets = £1,842,945. Net Worth = £1,952,514. They have a very successful lottery that builds up a decent jackpot very quickly. Last weeks winner scooped £16,500. Tickets are sold in every pub in perth as well as a number of shops. They also have a very successful banqueting and conferencing business. All of which was built into the stadium they got for free. They make money from renting out their all weather pitches and have a constant stream of people dining at the stadium every day.

SOUNDS LIKE THE KIND OF BUSINESS MODEL WE SHOULD BE FOLLOWING.

[gordieict]

so I sounds like their marketing is better than us at least in the lottery and use of the stadium. Another problem we have is by constantly taking in loan players and players on one year deals we have no players of value to sell and a club our size needs to be a selling club

[CaleyD]

St Johnstone have a very, very different setup to ours and it is one that is beyond (and has always been beyond) our reach without Millions upon Millions of pounds of external investment.

St Johnstone were handed a free, fully equipped, SPL ready, multi-purpose facility in a prime location. In contrast, ICT were forced into an over-priced, badly positioned, poorly planned, facility lacking stadium which showed no hint of foresight (in design or location) and left us with an unmanageable debt for a club the size we were at the time and we've never really been able to overcome that...in fact the problems have been added to because a club already weighed down by lack of funds and debt then had to find the money to expand and over the years any/all assets have had to be sold to keep the wolf from the door.....when you have a business which needs to do that, then it's hardly likely they can find the funds to expand and create new income streams.

That's not to say the club haven't made mistakes or that they do everything perfectly....no business does, including St Johnstone. However, St Johnstone are in a position whereby the business can absorb the occasional error, mistake or failed initiative....we aren't.

The situation is what it is and there's little to be gained from moaning about the past, but it's not impossible for ICT to get into the position that St Johnstone are in. All that it needs is for the City, it's businesses and it's people* to start giving a bit back to the club that has done more to put Inverness on the map and bring money to the place since 1994 than anything else.

*I don't include fans/people who do what they can in terms of buying tickets, merchandise, following the team, giving their time etc.

[Alex MacLeod]

That is another positive at Perth. There is a business club affiliated to the football club. They are a group of local business people who do what they can within their business's and social circles to help the club both financially and by providing services. As CD says though the St Johnstone infrastructure is very different to ours. The facilities are far superior to what we have and are used on a daily basis.If only I could get that Euromillions jackpot this week.

[Ronaldo]

This is a subject which always hits a raw nerve with me.

There is no reason why ICT cannot be doing some of the commercial things that other clubs, such as St Johnstone, are doing it simply requires the right person with some imagination.

I'll remain an unhappy bunny until I can go to Tesco's and buy some ICT ice cream (or even some ICTed Cream!) and also have some guy at my door trying to sell me a season ticket (although I have one already)

[Alex MacLeod]

Ronaldo, as well as a restuarant and banqueting suite McDairmid has nine conference suites. They also provide all the electronics etc necessary for a conference. They have all weather pitches and they have an easy link to the roads network. I dont believe there are many clubs with all those facilities and it shows the foresite they had when Asda built it for them.

As for the guy at the door selling season tickets. I'm sure that could be made to happen if you want to volunteer your free time. ICT ice cream?? That would be a first.

[+Tree]

Ronaldo, as well as a restuarant and banqueting suite McDairmid has nine conference suites. They also provide all the electronics etc necessary for a conference. They have all weather pitches and they have an easy link to the roads network. I dont believe there are many clubs with all those facilities and it shows the foresite they had when Asda built it for them.

As for the guy at the door selling season tickets. I'm sure that could be made to happen if you want to volunteer your free time. ICT ice cream?? That would be a first.

As someone who has used the McDiarmid Park conference facilities for business, the benefit of geography which St Johnstone benefit from cannot be replicated in Inverness. The location is a central point for bringing together people from places such as Aberdeen, Inverness and the M8 Corridor. There are also a number of other facilities in the Perth area which gain trade from this location.

That said, the layout of the facilities is not the best, although to be fair to the club they realised this very early on after the stadium was constructed and did invest a reasonable sum of money (if I recall correctly) to make some improvements.