Injuries....Why?

[CaleyD]

Is it just me, or do we seem to have suffered a lot more injuries since Craig Brewster has been manager (both spells)?

I'm no expert on these things, but we're always told that Athletes/Sportsmen who push the limits of their physical ability or are "highly tuned" in terms of fitness etc are more prone to injury and I was just wondering if that's why we seemed to be suffering more in this department.

Brewster obviously has the team far fitter than any other manager has ever achieved, but it looks like we are paying the price for that on the injury front and I sometimes wonder if they are perhaps being pushed too far.

We've had a whole plethora of injury types, but shoulder injuries seem to be the one which dominate. Could this be a sign that upper body work/strength is being sacrificed for speed and mobility?...and could that be why some of our players sometimes look a bit lightweight in the challenge or when they're being muscled off the ball?

Please, let's not turn this into another "Brewsters Crap, let's sack him" thread, it's a genuine question/concern and I'd prefer a sensible and constructive discussion on it.

[FortressICT]

It will be like you say, the players getting pushed to hard in training. I know it's not real but in FM if you raise your squads training even slighty higher than medium, your players get injured left right and centre. So that is probably what it is as Brewster is very keen on fitness and after 5 days of intense training a week then the players go into 90mins of hard tackles etc, they are bound to get injured.

[caley100]

It will be like you say, the players getting pushed to hard in training. I know it's not real but in FM if you raise your squads training even slighty higher than medium, your players get injured left right and centre. So that is probably what it is as Brewster is very keen on fitness and after 5 days of intense training a week then the players go into 90mins of hard tackles etc, they are bound to get injured.

Bollocks... Fitness and injuries are not connected, Football is a contact sport, meaning lots of tackles, bumps, shoving, jumping, running into each other etc etc, the fitter & stronger they are minimises the risk, bad luck and bad tackles make injuries.

If you had been at Tannadump on saturday and seen Dods tackle on Black, you would have seen a tackle that caused an injury that was meant.

[CaleyD]

As I said though, are we concentrating too much on the fitness, and not enough on the strength?....hence the reason we might have guys who can run about for 90 minutes without too much effort, but they can't win feck all in the air (Black being the ironic exception against Killie) and are overpowered easily on set pieces etc.

[FortressICT]

ICT should invest in more coaches, maybe ones that specify in postions. So the defenders can focus on defensive duties etc. Then all come together at the end and warm down or something like that. But that would mean invest in coaches.

Fitness is crucial because that will mean that the players can play for 90mins every game of the year. Which never really happens. So that is why I think Brewster should be focusing a lot more on the football side of it!

But, no-one knows what happens in training, so we could all be completely wrong.

[BornCaley]

ICT should invest in more coaches, maybe ones that specify in postions. So the defenders can focus on defensive duties etc. Then all come together at the end and warm down or something like that. But that would mean invest in coaches.

Fitness is crucial because that will mean that the players can play for 90mins every game of the year. Which never really happens. So that is why I think Brewster should be focusing a lot more on the football side of it!

But, no-one knows what happens in training, so we could all be completely wrong.

I agree with Roscoe on this one..I think the backroom staff at the club needs some experience and specific coaching roles, thus freeing up the management team for tactics/on the pitch stuff..

ICT should really be looking at experienced coaches as well as players

[kencar]

On the subject of injuries why does the P&J say that Black was at Raigmore having an X-Ray on his anterior cruciate joint after injuring his shoulder on Saturday?? Aren't they in your knee???

[IcyTea]

ICT should invest in more coaches, maybe ones that specify in postions. So the defenders can focus on defensive duties etc.

Based on his performance as an ICT player and his masterclass in how to defend at Barry's testamonial, we should grab Bobby Mann for defence coach the minute he retires as a player. But then again, why wait?

Edited October 9, 2008 by IcyTea

[Kingsmills]

Have we had a disproportionate amount of injuries of late ?

[dead_ball_specialist]

Whatever happened to the kick boxing? I thought that was all about giving our players a physical edge. I assume that was ditched.

There was also a hill-walking fad during Brewster's first spell, Golly being a big fan apparently. That was probably the fittest most energetic ICT team ever.

[CaleyD]

Have we had a disproportionate amount of injuries of late ?

It feels like we have had more than normal in the past couple of season, although that's gut feeling and not based on any analytical evaluation of the situation.

It could perhaps just be a result of SPL football being altogether more physically demanding, which is why I opened the topic up for discussion as other people may be better placed to give opinions than me.

On the subject of injuries why does the P&J say that Black was at Raigmore having an X-Ray on his anterior cruciate joint after injuring his shoulder on Saturday?? Aren't they in your knee???

I think you have anterior and posterior cruciate ligaments in all joints.

[Scotty]

I think you have anterior and posterior cruciate ligaments in all joints.

http://www.sports-injury-info.com/shoulder-ligaments.html

[Charles Bannerman]

To return to the original question, it really doesn't seem all that long ago that I was wondering if there was actually a connection between a LOW rate of injury and the demanding training regime at Caley Thistle. After all, well conditioned tissue tends to be stronger and better sble to resist damage and until very recently there has tended to be quite a low injury rate at ICT. As it happens there has been an upward blip in injuries over the last few weeks, but you have to remember that there are different types of injuries such as acute traumatic as in a broken leg, overuse such as shin splints and of biomechanical origin such as ileo tibial band (sore knee and outside of your leg), although there's a grey area between the last two perhaps. Don't misunderstand the term "overuse" either. It doesn't necessarily mean that someone has been over training.

A number of the recent injuries appear to be acute traumatic, such as Ian Black's knee, David Proctor's ankle and possibly Grant Munro's knee as well - in other words bad luck. A number of them have emerged from the rough and tumble of matches.

Please also don't misunderstand the term "fitness". Too many people confuse this with "endurance" which quite simply is one of a number of types of fitness. There is also speed and yes, strength, as well as combinations of these three. As a result, the gym sessions the Caley Thistle players frequently do will to a large extent be about developing strength - and you just have to look at some of these guys to see that they are reasonably well worked in the upper body as well. No one should think that the current fitness regimne is simply about lots of continuous running. Even pre season didn't involve that much - it was far more sessions like 4 minute intervals which can be far more demanding.

I don't for one minute think that these guys are being overworked. Some of them may not particularly enjoy the hard work but it is indispensible and I'm pleased to see football these days catching up on other sports in this respect. Having coached athletes to Commonwealth Games and European Championships on more than one occasion, I have a fair idea of what the human body can take and can benefit from and welcome what's happening in football in general and in Inverness in particular.

Perhaps I could also return to the comment I made just after the North Cup final when I contrasted the conditioned looking body forms of the ICT U19 team and the Nairn side who, quite frankly in one or two cases were unfit looking and downright fat!

Edited October 9, 2008 by Charles Bannerman

[Alex MacLeod]

I dont believe we have any more or less problems than many other teams. We just notice more because of the size of our squad.

I dont think it has anything to do with training methods unless the use of the modern gym is a contributing factor. The game has become more of a contact sport than it once was. I also wonder about things like the modern boots, blade studs etc. Boots are being developed to give better grip but is it the grip thats causing the twists that lead to injury. The body wants to turn but the foot stays where it is.

Most injuries tend to be ligament and tendon damage. Muscle can be developed and strengthened, ligaments and tendons cant. More and more people are encouraged to use gym's, tone up etc. Is gym work resulting in the muscle becoming too strong for the bits that attach it to the bone.

[Charles Bannerman]

Is gym work resulting in the muscle becoming too strong for the bits that attach it to the bone.

That's not been my experience, except possibly in cases when people are trying maximal efforts with weights which I would imagine is unlikely to be common among footballers. In general I would say that strength training would tend to reduce injury proneness.