Butcher to Barnsley? Terry stays put***

[Oddquine]

 

 

He was entitled to listen to what they had to say.  In case you missed it, he turned them down ffs.  I'm sure he will be off one day, it happens.  People are also entitled to be happy with the result.  He is our boss and he has taken us to where we are today, even if it did hurt a few at the time, so why not celebrate the fact that he listened, he pondered and he still preferred to stay with us, is that not enough for you.

But, way I see it is the reasons he gave for staying are exactly the same reasons he COULD have used for turning them down flat and not entertaining them in the first place. Sure, he was entitled to listen to what they had to say...but why do that if he WOULDN'T have gone if the set-up at Barnsley was one he could work within?

See, that's what I can't quite understand....the fact that he pondered and came up with the same reason for his decision to stay as he could so easily have done if he decided to refuse to talk at all...and everybody is so chuffed...although, in the end, his decision was not based on what he said in the Club hand-out....because he KNEW that was the situation with ICT BEFORE the talks...so what he said in the Club news thingie wasn't the reason he didn't go, just something produced to appease the fans, imo. And it appears to have worked spectacularly!

Loyalty is not staying where you are because all the elements in another offer didn't work for you..loyalty is not applying for/considering seriously/ talking terms other jobs in the first place.

 

You do know how football clubs operate, don't you? It's not a normal job and I for one appreciate having a manager who want's to do the best he can. At the moment he's here and successful, if he wasn't successful where would your loyalties lie? With the manager? The club? Please go and have a lie down, it'll all look a lot better in the morning.

 

Yep......they rely on the greed/ambition of football managers who think the grass is always greener elsewhere.  That doesn't mean we have to like it...or that we should be drooling because someone who would have moved on, if the conditions had worked out for him, didn't.....because he couldn't manage to work it!

 

The only difference between a normal job and being a football manager is that , in a normal job, the punter looking to move on, or the head-hunter looking to snag him/her, doesn't usually proclaim it to the press and have his/her employers, underlings etc spending days obsessing/worrying about whether he/she will stay or go.

 

Football is a normal job........for players for other staff and for management, both on the admin and football side. They have contracts, get wages and there are expectations as to performance.....what is not normal with that? The fact that footballers and football managers seem to be under the impression that they are different doesn't mean they are.......just that they think they are......and fans stroke their egos to confirm it for them.  Nobody forced any of them to become football managers/players etc.......they just thought they were good at it and could make a lot of money in a short career..and good luck to them with that...but let's stop pretending that the vast majority of them have any loyalty to any employer who can't meet their wage/ambition aspirations..or that any employer has any loyalty to them.

 

When he wasn't what ICT fans thought successful, and he was suffering innumerable "Butcher Out" threads on here, I defended him.....and will do so again if/when appropriate.  The fact that I don't much Iike some of the way he does things doesn't mean I don't think he has done well for ICT and I don't for a second think he won't give of his best as long as he is here......but I do find the sycophancy on this thread a shade hard to take because, whatever his reasons for staying..they were not the reasons he gave on the Club blurb......because those reasons were exactly the situation which pertained before Barnsley came knocking at the door.....and didn't stop him checking out the shade of the  grass elsewhere.

 

People who support teams don't have to love.....or even like, everybody involved in the set-up. A football team is a whole entity, not a lot of individuals.....and it is more than possible to be hacked off with the performance/attitude etc of individuals within the team from directors/management down, while still supporting the team.  If that wasn't the case, this would be a very quiet forum.

[Renegade]

I wonder if Maurice Malpas was the real key here.  Had the answer been an outright no, I feel that we would've known far sooner than we did.  The footage of Butcher at the airport, seemed to suggest a man still unsure about what his future really would be.  There's been rumours in the past that Malpas has stood in the way of Butcher attempting to get other jobs (Aberdeen was one I heard, though I have no idea on its authenticity).  I believe that this may well have been the case here.  Butcher's made it clear to Barnsley that he'd want to take Malpas with him, they've offered him the job and explain Malpas's terms, so Butcher's gone back to tell him.  Malpas looks at is, and for whatever reason doesn't fancy it.  I wouldn't at all surprise me if this is actually more Malpas's decision than Butcher's - and I'm glad he's made the right one.

 

One other thing though has crossed my mind.  Would things have been different had Doncaster and not Barnsley come in for him first?  To be fair to Barnsley, they don't exactly have a lot going for them.  They're stranded at the bottom of the league, have just lost one of their main players and the first candidate for the job turned them down despite being unemployed.  While they may be a bigger team, with a bigger support, a bigger budget and in a better league, Butcher would have been a fool to take that job.  Despite this, he admits himself that it was a different decision to make and had ICT not been on such a high, his decision may well have been a different one.  Doncaster though like ICT, are on a high.  Arguably, a promotion with them would look better than saving Barnsley from the drop and should he keep in the Championship the next season, Butcher could look back and say that leaving ICT was the right decision.  It could be said as well that achieving success at Doncaster, despite being in the lower league, would be an easier task and done far more prominently than it would be at Barnsley.  Who knows, they may still come in for him yet and we go through this whole process again.  I just wonder though, had Doncaster come in first, then the outcome may well have been very different.

 

Just over ten years ago, Steve Paterson turned down a lucrative deal with Dundee United to stay at ICT.  He and Duncan Shearer then agreed a new deal that would keep them to club for the next five years and proclaimed that there was still a lot of work to be done.  One month later they were gone.  Terry Butcher has claimed that he will be here for at least the length of time left on his current contract.  I hope he keeps to his word.

[fevtyke]

I said at work today that it was much easier for Butcher to move to Engand, I prusime most of his Family and old/close friends are from England and we will probab ly go back there sometime.

 

MO on the other hand (although I dont know the facts) is probably totally opposite and a move to England would be much more of an upheaval

[Laurence]

I can on;y think .

The offer wasn't good enough. both in  his wage and the amount of cash to buy players

 

Edited January 10, 2013 by Laurence

[+Fraz]

I doubt very much he'd have got a pay raise.at all. He's still under the same contract.

[BornCaley]

Paterson - Jamp ship

Robertson Jamp Ship

Brewster- Jamp Ship

Butcher - Still standing on the ICT plank

[ilpadrino]

So now that's all over, exactly what has Butcher done for us this year?  No progress in any cups, and not a single point in the league!

 

Should I look out my slip-ons for the Aberdeen game?

 

Edited January 10, 2013 by ilpadrino

[PullMyFinger]

Loyalty to an employer is transferrable. Loyalty to a team you have made is not. Continue our current form and Butcher will likely be away in the summer. Let's just enjoy the football.

[Scarlet Pimple]

At least he did it out in the open and not behind the back as far as can be judged on everything that has been said to date.

 

Unless you were born in the area of your club I question whether any club member , player or Manager, can actually feel that magnetic pull from within the heart and soul and that deep sense of loyalty that takes years of garnering. So long as he has done his best for the club and his family to date for the compensation he has been paid then do we have the right to judge him  ?

 

 It's like losing  a very close relative--it's only after this person has gone that you reallise how much you miss him or her. Therefore the question of loyalty cannot be truly assessed because it surely comes from love and not money.

 

Since this is a job first, which pays the wages that keeps them and their family alive, most players or club members see it as such but fully realise that during a lifetime or a career they must also meet inner emotional goals, ambitions or achievements as a supplement to the financial remuneration to fulfill their needs.This means that they must be open to all offers and assess each on it's merits with a view to deciding whether  the new opportunity will further the progress pattern that they feel is their best life pattern

AND also to meet the progress pattern of their family unit.

 

I think that Terry had a lot of soul searching to do amidst this challenge that he has faced. And inner turmoil too.

He must have experienced a significant degree of restlessnesswithin his being that motivated this quest for information but that can easily be seen as a very positive response to the challenge that faced him. Had he not taken up the challenge to quest, what would he have wondered in the future as to what he could have missed and the regrets that he might feel as a consequence?  

 

He is no longer a young man and he doesn't have to prove a great deal as to his worthiness as a job performer. Taking all the decisions himself is not necessarily always absolutely necessary to further his own life goals or that of his employer and so  allowing others under his guidance and control to do much of the work and decision making, if it is also good for his employer, is an equally worthy course. And wise because it's teamwork after all, not extreme individualism, that counts in the long run.

 

Having decided that staying at ICT is the best course we should quietly be happy since his overal influence on his assistants and the players and the club in general also has to be taken into account in our judgement of his actions.

 

Talk is cheap and he has the right to talk to anybody in a free country. Actions speak louder than words so let's watch and wait to see what the final outcome is and support him too because the father of the Prodigal son is said to have welcomed him back into the fold, without negative judgement, for his own reasons.

[CaleyD]

Starting to wish this topic had self-destructed when it got to page 25.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

 A FECKIN PSYCHOLOGICAL MASTERCLASS - I hope that it was a calculated "plan" - The ultimate outcome for any narcissist but also could reap mega psychological positive effect on everyone linked with ICT. Oh I do hope that the next step is an emotional statement from TB stating that he will not make any other move to leave until the closure of this season - oh it is great to know that there are other intelligent psychopaths in operation.

 

    Of course I am as usual only joking - as if TB and ICT would be so calculatingly deceitful ?

[jamie ictfc]

As good as it is Terry has stayed, i cannot help but feel there is going to be alot of similar jobs to Barnsley/Doncaster coming up over the next 6 months where we are having this discussion time and time again? Yes it's good Terry has chosen to stay, but i don't want to go through this every month. This is where we should be offering him a longer, more lucrative deal to make him want to stay!

[bdu98196]

Now a decission is made this thread is really at an end, perhaps now TB has shown commitment to our club and cause we should do the same and all fans be united behind him and show support by attending the games and getting beyond the 3000 fans we regullarly have to a number more fitting for a team sitting 2nd in a league!!!

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

To Fevtyke you need to take a trip to the Highlands soon to see that the quality of life is far better than the quantity of life. Terry is a gentleman who has undertaken due diligence on an option. The transplant from the Highlands was always likely to be difficult from our perspective. 

[JockWatt]

Didn't I say that "what will be, will be" ?

[ferben1994]

Do have to wonder at all the whooping and clapping on this thread by folk who are chuffed he is staying FOR THE MOMENT...and who have never wondered why he put us, and the Barnsley crowd through this in the first place.

Which part of "We have been going extremely well to be second in the SPL, still in the Scottish Cup and with a League Cup semi final to look forward to later this month.

"I have also brought people to this club and, on reflection, feel that I should remain with them to try and continue the good work.My focus is now firmly on that." did he NOT know before he decided to talk to Barnsley?

Still seems to me that he'd be off if Mo, and maybe Steve Marsella, would have gone with him.

Jesus Christ did someone get a wee bit impatient that nobody gave them any attention after their 1st outburst.

Read whats goin on all around you 95% of posters are absolute delighted that our man tb rejected the offer of a move down sarf which not many would have.

From here on in we should forget any petty gripes and get ready for the end of potentially the best season ever..........togetherness

[ferben1994]

I never really believed we would get Butcher, I hoped we would but never really believed it.

But he has really pissed off a lot of Barnsley fans. We really need a new manager and wanted someone in before the weekends match agains leeds. TB has wasted 3 days of our time. Even if it was to do with Mo not wanting to leave, surley they could have discussed this before agreeing to speak to us.

Im not sure i could get behind a manger who agreed to speak to another club, even if he turned them down.

When Mark Robins agreed to speak to us a while ago, the rotherham chairman put him on gardening leave and gave him no choice relly but to accept.

I suppose Butch may have got himself a nice pay rise out fo this though

I know our forums way better than yours but shood you not be back at tykes mad greeting to yer own lot

thanks for coming

nothing to see here on

move along now

[gordieict]

At the end of the day he is staying and I am delighted with that, whatever his reason for staying lets just enjoy it along with the rest of this remarkable season. I get the feeling certain posters on here without actually saying it wanted him to leave and that really baffles me. 

 

We can speculate the reasons for him staying but do they really matter, will he be here much longer? who knows but lets just celebrate we have managed to keep the manager who has led us to the remarkable position that we are in.

 

Enjoy it while it lasts folks. 

Edited January 10, 2013 by gordieict

[RossP]

Paterson - Jamp ship

Robertson Jamp Ship

Brewster- Jamp Ship

Butcher - Still standing on the ICT plank

 

*Jumped.

[Snafu]

Woke up to the fantastic news this morning about Terry deciding to stay.

 

Now we can move on and look forward to the rest of what could be the best season in the history of the club.

[CaleyD]

[KingBeastie]

Fat girls...

Yup.  Fat girls.

I can't help but thinking fat girls may be our secret weapon in this whole thing.

I say we hire a waddle of fat girls to always be within a close proximity of Terry whenever he leaves his house.  This way should barnsley, doncaster or any other yorkshire team come calling he'll get the general feel and vibe of yorkshire without actually leaving the Highlands.  That should be enough to put him off methinks.

[Yngwie]

Had to laugh at this sentence in the Daily Record.

 

"Record Sport exclusively revealed on January 1 that he was the Championship club’s top target"

 

.....conveniently failing to mention that they were actually wrong and that Barnsley first offered the job to their real top target, Sean O'Driscoll.

[TopSix]

Had to laugh at this sentence in the Daily Record.   "Record Sport exclusively revealed on January 1 that he was the Championship club’s top target"   .....conveniently failing to mention that they were actually wrong and that Barnsley first offered the job to their real top target, Sean O'Driscoll.

You read the Daily Record?!

[davie]

So he's staying then. It's a considerable relief in that I wonder what the performance of those players who had come to ICT on the back of being managed by TB would have been in the second half of the season? How would the likes of OTJ, Raven and the Shinnie's react? Losing TB might have put the club on a real downward spiral that would have been difficult to arrest. The reason for this is that TB, his abilities and his personality are now an intrinsic part of who we are as a club - the highland gentleman, advocate for the city, increasingly part of the business community. You might argue about it, but that's how outsiders see him. Of course his (and his teams) best asset is in attracting talent that would otherwise never think of coming here. Lose TB, and we lose all that and that's a worry. The second half of the season will define where we go from here - a top six finish or a cup final will increase TB's worth and it may be that only something like the lure of a europa league qualifier might be enough to keep him past the summer. Whatever happens (and isn't that part of the attraction of football) I'll enjoy the journey.