Journeymen, Mercenaries and Prostitutes

[buckett]

Well here we go again. Another pre-season, another bunch of strangers in ICT shirts and quite frankly, I don't like the way it's going.

Last season we had the same scenario, but we put it down to much-needed changes,necessary for SPL progress, and sorta hoped that these guys would form the nucleus of Terry Butcher's new ICT and hang around for a few seasons.

But they've gone now and our manager has trawled the English lower leagues for another bunch of journeyman, mercenaries, prostitutes or whatever you want to call them. Will they be any good? - I certainly hope so, but I doubt it.

And will the same thing happen next season, and the one after?

And what is the point of Inverness being represented at football by a team made up largely of players from another country?

The thing is, if there are not enough players from the Highlands, of sufficient quality to play in the SPL, then Inverness really doesn't deserve to have an SPL team. And if they're all playing for Ross County, perhaps we're supporting the wrong team!

[jaggy]

The worst and most negative post I have ever seen on this forum, I would hate to be a newly signed player reading this thread. Your a disgrace and your comments are not helpful and not welcome.

[AJS]

I'll reserve judgement till i see the new boys in action but to some extent i agree with you and have the same doubts. The club dont have the excuses of last season for the changes and i find it hard to believe that we are faling to attract players in Scotland as this wasnt even a problem when we came back up to the SPL. I refuse to believe that players in Scotland price themselves out of a move here, that is the club more or less saying that clubs in a lower league can afford better terms than us...concerning.

What does worry me is that this was supposed to be the ICT of the future and a year on we've gone backwards if nothing else. A mass exodus that has included our top scorers and other first team players does not bode well as we will have the same problem next season if the current crop impress and bigger team comes calling.

The stalwarts that left e.g Munro and Tokely were what made this club special and now that they have gone there is nothing that really seperates us from the rest and i think we just have to come to terms with it.

The buck has to stop somewhere though. We cant keep reshaping and rebuilding every season, its not healthy, especially if the club are as serious as they say about making progress.

As ive said i will reserve judgement though, its early days and TB has a reputation for finding some gems...heres hoping, still got faith.

Edited June 28, 2012 by ajsict92

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The worst and most negative post I have ever seen on this forum, I would hate to be a newly signed player reading this thread. Your a disgrace and your comments are not helpful and not welcome.

Realism albeit bordering on the pessimistic is probably highly representative of many fans and only happy clappers with extreme rose tinted spectacles could respond as you have.

[AJS]

The worst and most negative post I have ever seen on this forum, I would hate to be a newly signed player reading this thread. Your a disgrace and your comments are not helpful and not welcome.

Realism albeit bordering on the pessimistic is probably highly representative of many fans and only happy clappers with extreme rose tinted spectacles could respond as you have.

Time for a response from lukemackay.

[lukemackay]

why dont we rename this thread, messi, ronaldo, and xavi. because it seems to me no one will be happy until we sign players of their calibre. can we all just get a grip. get used to the fact that we will be signing players from lower english leagues, it doesnt matter what theyve done in the past its what they do in an ict shirt that counts.

some posters on here arnt happy when we sign players on loan from the premiership because they dont give their all for the shirt and arnt here for the long term and they arnt happy when we sign a player from a lower league who is more likely to stay because they dont possess enough quality.

it seems to me that no matter what steps the club take no one is ever happy. well youre all going to lead sad lifes in that case. the club try their best to bring in the best players possible and if you cant accept that they arnt all going to be the shizzle then i suggest you go support barcelona, real madrid, chelsea, man city, manchester united, or bayern munich. if you want other suggestions for clubs i think you should support pm me.

[Renegade]

I loathe this attitude of "if you disagree with the status quo/manager/board/other fans, you should go away". Such an attitude is detrimental to everyone and leads to more alienation in some quarters of the support. ICT have never had trouble in the past of signing Scottish players which go on to be successes - then again a decade ago, the club had a manager who was the best scout and judger of Scottish playing talent bar none. How times have changed.

The problem here is that Butcher seems to be marketing the club in such a way that players, particularly those based in England who have been punted by teams down south, as a kind of place to come and play for a year and attempt to resurrect their career for a move back to England. In other words, Butcher's turned the club into what is basically a Glenn Hoddle Academy of the north. If it were just one or two players that this policy was used for then it would be okay, but when you build a whole team out of it, that's when problems arise. This team needs to be a team again, as it was in the past and if it doesn't the feelings of disconnection between the players and support will continue and could well end in a having squad not good enough to compete at this level.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Bucket was right on the ball with this post.

It's the future we need to worry about and the loss of identity that ICT has, their place in North Football and Scottish football also.

If Caley Thistle are unfortunate enough to get relegated in the near future then how stable is Terry Butcher's job? And if, he were unfortunate to lose his job what will happen to the team then? The probability of more loaness coming year after year from the South will be much less and ICt will then have to scramble like crazy to tget a team together that can even get back i nto the SPL. For sure, chaos will rein and this is niot a stable platform at all on which to build a team of the future.

Whether or not Terry can get a team together to allow ICT to just survive, the fact of the matter is that the heart has been ripped out of this Inverness team and dpression and a strong element of disbelief, and resignation to the fates, prevails in it's place. The spirit is not what it was and if all we have to look forward to now is more of the same coming in from England with the same merrygoround occurring at the end of every season then that is not what I want or what i think is in the best future interests of Northern football. Period.

[Libero]

Was interested to see how many ‘local’ players we had when we were first promoted to the SPL.

There is certainly not as many Scottish players in the squad now but the amount of ‘local’ players isn’t too dissimilar. I have classed Aberdeen and North as local

1. Bayne, Graham NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

2. Black, Ian NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

3. Brewster, Craig NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

4. Brown, Mark NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

5. Carricondo, Juanjo NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

6. Dods, Darren NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

7. Duncan, Russell LOCAL

8. Fetai, Bajram NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

9. Fox, Liam NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

10. Fraser, Michael LOCAL

11. Golabek, Stuart LOCAL

12. Hart, Richie LOCAL

13. Hastings, Richard LOCAL

14. Hislop, Steven NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

15. Keogh, Liam NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

16. McAllister, Rory LOCAL

17. McBain, Roy LOCAL

18. McCaffrey, Stuart NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

19. Munro, Grant LOCAL

20. Proctor, David NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

21. Prunty, Bryan NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

22. Smith, Jonathon UNKNOWN

23. Thomson, Darran NOT LOCAL OR NORTH OF SCOTLAND

24. Tokely, Ross LOCAL

25. Wilson, Barry NOT LOCAL

CURRENT LOCAL PLAYERS:

RYAN ESSON,

GRAEME SHINNIE,

ANDREW SHINNIE,

SHANE SUTHERLAND,

MARTIN LAING,

NICK ROSS

SCOTT MATHIESON (U19 KEEPER, IIRC HE IS LOCAL)

So between the team we were first promoted to the SPL with compared to our current (incomplete) squad there is a 9 v 7.

I think the issue here is players are no longer committing to clubs for more than a couple of years hence we dont grow attached to them and feel like they are local.

The likes of Barry Wilson, players from Aberdeenshire way like Duncan, McBain, Tokely etc all felt like local players because they were with the club for so long. This is just a result of the fact that money is so much of a pull factor. Gone are the days where football was about football or loyalty. Its all about the £ these days

Edited June 29, 2012 by Libero

[ictchris]

We signed Ryan Esson, Paul Sheerin, Ian Black, Jonny Hayes, Lee Cox and Richie Foran from lower league football in England, Here's hoping the current batch of mercenary prostitutes are as good as they were.

[+Fraz]

Perhaps the attendance at TCS would improve with some cheap mercenary prostitutes? Another fundraising idea!

[Huisdean]

Although I think the original post was a bit too negative, until we have seen these guys play, I think we have to reserve judgement on their abilities.

What is concerning again is that they are all on 1 year deals. No real issues with this if the club moves to sign the players up on longer deals if they prove they are worth it but that doesn't seem to happen or happen quickly enough. Part of that may be down to players not committing themselves but I cannot believe that is true for all the players.

I would also say that this is not unique to ICT and no SPL clubs have the majority of their players from their "local area" any more, those days are long gone unfortunately. However, that is what we have to strive to get back to with a good local core of players supplemented with others from wherever. As the previous poster said, a lot of who we perhaps thought were "local" players were not but seemed so because they were here for a long time. I also think too many posters look back to the Pele era and think it can be replicated again but I don't think it can as football constantly moves on.

What i do think we need to do however is to try and integrate more into the community, generate more "local" players and be a club where loacl players know they will get a chance. This is not only down to the club but needs to involve the Council and perhaps the SPL/SFA (fat chance of that) but this should be our long term strategy. It pains me to say that the club does not appear to have a long term strategy and exists season to season. New blood is needed in the boardroom and possibly at managerial level if the current signing path for players we appear to have does not produce the results this season.

For those who think this may be easy to achieve however, a word of caution. Look at the English Premier league, they all have academies etc but how many of the players produced go to the EPL. Very few as the clubs are more willing to spend money on foreign imports as that buys success quicker. We have to be careful that if we get to a predominantly local/Scottish team that doesn't produce results, that we, the fans and the Board don't then go down the route we appear to be going down at the moment. In other words the fans and board have to determine where they want to be in 5 years and start to make plans to get there. As I have said, this vision is sadly lacking.

[gordieict]

I think I am correct in saying that ICT played a match last year without one Scottish player in the starting line up, who honestly thought that would happen. I am sure there must be young Scottish talent in the lower leagues that could make the step up, one recent example was Gary Mackay-Stevens, but Butcher's stategy and scouting seems to be the lower leagues in England.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I certainly do not mind spending money on a budding prostitute to measure their performance. But the "girls" that pimp TB dude haas brought in do not exactly whet my apetite and I have a vision of flat chested, one legged mammas and fledglings virgins. And thanks to wee Luke for not adding EvertonFC to the illustrious supporting list - but here is a question to consider which evidenlly needs to be put in to perspective - what is the comparisons and differences between Messrs Moyes and Butcher ?

[+bughtmaster]

Maybe we get what we deserve from some the 'support' these players get from this forum.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Agree to a degree but the proof is in the pudding and if they come up with the goods then they will have earned respect. The issue with many is not the players but the man management and the tactics. The problem is that inexperienced players need to have a system developed to fit in to. They also need to be played consistently in the same, favoured position and get a "run" in the team to boost thir confidence but experience shows that many can be reactively benched after one poor performance or persistently played out of position and/or becoming progressively more frustrated by perceived favouritism.

[gordieict]

To me the biggest example of how the current signing policy is not working is the likes of Tade, never exactly set the heather alight at any club before ICT, was given his opportunity at the top flight with ICT and then refused a new contract and was off at the first chance he had meaning TB had to scurry about looking for a replacement.

[Sir C the 3rd]

Although I agree that we shouldn't pre judge them, they don't sound like the most inspiring signings. Their careers being punted from pillar to post in the lower leagues of England and Spain doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence. We used to bring in players we thought would be good, now we bring in players we hope will be good.

The thing thats most annoying for me now, is that we're not a team anymore. We're a collection of individuals brought in for 1 year then its a whole new team again the next season. I look at Dundee Utd, the amount of players they've brought in from lower leagues (even part time) who have come in and been a huge success. I don't understand why we dont look down there for players, i dare say we could afford some players on part time wages who want to go full time. And whisper it, maybe even a 2 year deal!!

[Big G]

I used to say to myself " Its the shirt that matters not who's wearing it" but I'm at a point now that I seem to be supporting a " Terry Butcher's Inverness Caley Thistle" rather than "Inverness C.T managed by Terry Butcher". I don't blame the players that come in as they are only trying to make a living out of playing football but as a management team and club we don't seem to have a long term plan when it comes to the squad. One year deals are o.k if we look to offer new contracts at Christmas if the player warrants it and not wait till the season is over. If I thought I would be out of a job in June I would start looking in January just like it looks like Tansy, Tade and Hayes did.

[Biggin]

Seems to me part of our problem is lack of continuity in the playing squad. If we go back a number of years we would have maybe 2 and at the most 3 new signings at the start of a season.

Now we are looking at between 7 and 10 last season and this , and the contracts that are being issued are for 1 year, so we will probably have the same situation next season.

Why are we not offering some of these players at least 2 year contracts and so give the team a bit of continuity

[KirkieRobRoy]

Part of the problem is that the youth players aren't ready to step up, going by the U19s' league performance last season. All the same, County seem to be succeeding without a Butcher-style trawl of lower-league England.

No doubt I'll be pilloried for negativity but it's noticeable than whenever any rival club is looking for a manager they never headhunt Terry. I wonder why not.

[bauhaus]

Yet I can remember when Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, St Johnstone, and Ipswich were looking for new managers the majority of us were giving it .......Hands off our Terry.

Does any one honestly think that Terry and Mo are trying to get us into trouble.

[Oddquine]

Yet I can remember when Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, St Johnstone, and Ipswich were looking for new managers the majority of us were giving it .......Hands off our Terry.

Does any one honestly think that Terry and Mo are trying to get us into trouble.

Don't think they do.........but this is silly season, after all. If there is nothing to whine about.....well, they'll just whine about nothing.

[buckett]

why dont we rename this thread, messi, ronaldo, and xavi. because it seems to me . . . . . blah blah

WHOOOOSH!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Yet I can remember when Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, St Johnstone, and Ipswich were looking for new managers the majority of us were giving it .......Hands off our Terry.

Does any one honestly think that Terry and Mo are trying to get us into trouble.

Don't think they do.........but this is silly season, after all. If there is nothing to whine about.....well, they'll just whine about nothing.

Stop whining about nothing.