Low attendances at TCS

[Libero]

I have noticed this subject being discussed on another thread and i feel it is important enough to merit its own thread.

Much has been said of late about the clubs in-ability to attract fans to TCS and how the low crowds are limiting CC in his foray into the transfer market. I think this is very unfair and if the club think this will act as a wake up call for fans to start attending more games then i think they are sadly mistaken. Fans dont stay away from games because they want to its most probably down to high ticket prices, numerous hassles getting to/leaving/parking at games or ticket availability for the bigger games. If you ask me ticket pricing is the major factor in low attendances and i know of at least 12 potential fans that have been put off coming to games due to the high price of tickets.

I dont know if ticket pricing is decided solely by the board or if the SPL issue guideline prices but there seems to be a lot of people on this site and people who ive spoken to who feel that ticket prices are preventing them from attending more games. Not even cup games are subsidised in any way which i feel is a big mistake.

As far as i'm aware there arent any school ticket schemes ie. reduced ticket prices, competitions or even free ticket schemes and as a city where there has been a huge increase in young families moving to the area in recent years then surely addressing this target market will be beneficial in the short term and the long term.

Wigan recently reduced ticket prices considerably for the next 8 or so games to entice fans along and i think its a great idea. I seriously doubt that they will loose much money, if any, by reducing the ticket price as there will more than likely be a vast increase in attendance. its simple economics, the increase in attendance will surely cancel out the ticket price reduction.

Scotty raised some very good points about the perceived lack of fans turning up for games on another thread and what can be done to remedy the situation and i feel we can build on this to genereate some viable ideas for club as it seems evident that little is being done by the club at present. The only incentive that i can think of which the club has implemented recently has had inconclusive sucess - the polish flyer scheme. Also I think Scotty's idea of categorising tickets into areas of the ground is a very good one and could be successful if used.

I, like most of you on this site follow and support the club as much as possible (in my personal case i have had a seaon ticket for 5 seasons of ICT's existence and make numerous away cup trips when possible) and for fans to be blamed for the lack of transfer activity is a bit of a kick in the teeth, especially to those who follow the club as much as financially possible, but lets not dwell on it and figure out how to solve the problem rather than use it as a scapegoat everytime things arent running smoothly.

Libero

[RiG]

To quote the famous line

"I think you have created the nail - hammer interface here".

100% spot on post there. The club cannot blame the fans for not turning up for games when they trebled the cost of a concession for entry to the North end of the ground. Yes we have a "stand" there but a 3 fold increase to the now disgusting price of £15 for a child to sit in that stand is despicable and will only serve to turn people away from football and not encourage them.

Surely ICT can see that?  :006:

[Libero]

72 views on this thread and one comment!  :010:

Looks like the clubs lack of ideas is contagious.

Cheers for the comment RiG.  :022:

[RiG]

You're being negative Libero - that is frowned on by (some) folk around here you boo boy you!  :015:

[Libero]

ha ha,  :015:

perish the thought!

[RiG]

More seriously though a few issues you raise are actually being covered in another thread so that may have something to do with it.

*Click*

[Libero]

that link just sent me to the front page of the forums.

if you look at the first line of my original post i said that although this was being discussed in another thread i thought it merited its own thread as it is an important issue and the sneck courier article covered a range of topics. i thought a dedicated discussion on low attandances would be a good idea obviously i was mistaken  :007:

[RiG]

Oh arse. I thought I had the right link.

Personally, as I say, I think you raise loads of good points that are worth debating but for me there is no debate as I agree with you fully.

[Libero]

I've had two links not work on me today too!  :008:

i thought they were valid points in a valid thread, ahh well...

[Bush]

Whilst I agree that reduced prices, etc will inevitably lead to larger crowds, there is a balance to be had.  Clearly, there is no point in reducing prices by X% unless attendances increase by more than X% - if it doesn't, then the  club sees no nett financial benefit.

The key to success is to encourage new support by other 'low cost / no cost' means.  I actually came across a typical example of ICT's shortcomings yesterday.  Whilst discussing my 4year old son's day at Nursery with him, he said that he would be having 'football friday' on friday this week (and over coming weeks).  Upon further discussion, it transpired that representatives from Ross County were coming to his Nursery (in Inverness) to spend an hour or so with the kids, playing football, training, etc.  Personally, I think it's a great idea, my son is looking forward to it and I applaud the Nursery for getting it organised.   However, my first reaction was "Why Ross County and not ITC?". Response fron the Nursery was that when they asked Caley, they were advised that they don't do it.

Now, I haven't verified the advise that the Nursery gave me (although I have no reason to doubt it's credibility), but this is a prime example of neglecting 'cost free' opportunites to enhance support, not just in the short term, but for generations to come.

My son will, within the next year or so (when he can sit still for 90minutes) be attending home games with me and, even now, I am indoctrinating him into the Caley Thistle way but, for any kids at his Nursery whose parents are currently apathetic regarding football, there is the chance that they may end up crossing the bridge to go and see County.

ICT, far from waiting for nurseries and schools to approach them and then saying no, should be actively pursuing these types of opportunities to raise their profile and secure long term support for generations to follow!

[CaleyD]

Whilst I agree that reduced prices, etc will inevitably lead to larger crowds, there is a balance to be had.  Clearly, there is no point in reducing prices by X% unless attendances increase by more than X% - if it doesn't, then the  club sees no nett financial benefit.

The same works in reverse - whats the point in increasing prices if you reduce crowds to such an extent that it negates the extra money taken from tickets.

We are (currently) 5% down on average attendance compared to last season - when you add on any lost revenue from "other" sales, such as programmes, merchandise etc - then it is unlikely that income will have increased in this area.

[Action Man]

A few years ago while still an employee of the club, I put forward the proposition that each player be adopted by a primary school in inverness and that one day a week they visit that school for football sessions. They would then give out free tickets to the kids, encouraging dad's or mums's to take them to the game, increasing the crowd and making it more affordable and attractive to those on a lower wage. This lack of local marketing is holding the club back, and it is up to the club to do something about it. The potential support is out there, the club have to be more pro-active in attracting them to the stadium.

[Libero]

Whilst I agree that reduced prices, etc will inevitably lead to larger crowds, there is a balance to be had.  Clearly, there is no point in reducing prices by X% unless attendances increase by more than X% - if it doesn't, then the  club sees no nett financial benefit.

absolutely there is a balance to be had but i dont think increasing prices is the way to recover lost revenue from falling attendances, that will just push fans further away.

Its a frustrating situation we're in because we are such a young club a lot of the current youth in the town are being influenced by parents/relatives who without having an SPL team in their youth have supported the old firm or other SPL teams. Hopefully this is a generational thing though and not a recurring factor.

A few years ago while still an employee of the club, I put forward the proposition that each player be adopted by a primary school in inverness and that one day a week they visit that school for football sessions. They would then give out free tickets to the kids, encouraging dad's or mums's to take them to the game, increasing the crowd and making it more affordable and attractive to those on a lower wage. This lack of local marketing is holding the club back, and it is up to the club to do something about it. The potential support is out there, the club have to be more pro-active in attracting them to the stadium.

that sounds like a cracking idea and that last part of your post sums up the situation completely.

[tm4tj]

Lack of comments is possibly due to this being done to death on this site and the old Sportsnetwork site, we are just trawling over old ground now with some newer posters who have not sifted through all the tripe written before, one different name being used now of course is CC, it is all his fault :006:

But if anyone can come up with constructive criticism for the way ahead, please inform the chief Executive as we certainly could do with more bums on seats. Our basic fanbase is around the 3200-3500, any more than that is due to bigger away crowds turning up, then theres the old firm/dons etc........ach, it's all been said before.

[Libero]

if that is why people arent commenting then its a pretty unhelpful attitude to take.

going by your theory tm4tj should we just forget about it because its been discussed before?

should the club just forget about it too then seeing as the last time they tried to implement an incentive (the polish flier scheme) it didnt really work? ach we've talked about it before, cant be bothered talking about it again.

[CaleyD]

I don't think people are blaming CC - just stating that the fans shouldn't be his first/only port of call when it comes to pointing the finger.

Yes, the fans can do their bit, they can "Big Up" the product etc.  The problem is, it doesn't matter how good you tell someone something is, if it's out of their reach financially, then they ain't going to buy it and they certainly ain't going to buy lots of it.

[Scotty]

Lack of comments is possibly due to this being done to death on this site and the old Sportsnetwork site, we are just trawling over old ground now with some newer posters who have not sifted through all the tripe written before, one different name being used now of course is CC, it is all his fault :006:

But if anyone can come up with constructive criticism for the way ahead, please inform the chief Executive as we certainly could do with more bums on seats. Our basic fanbase is around the 3200-3500, any more than that is due to bigger away crowds turning up, then theres the old firm/dons etc........ach, it's all been said before.

I dont think a discussion of this nature is 'tripe' and the fact that it has been discussed before doesnt make it any more relevant or irrelevant than it was before (or indeed when it raises its head again in the future as it surely will).

I also dont think the majority of posters are blaming CC for the low attendances. They are disagreeing with him over using that as an excuse as to why we cant sign or re-sign players when that is only one facet of a multi dimensional problem. here are a couple of quotes that I added in the COURIER THREAD

"I agree that we can/should all do our bit to try and get more people along but the club should also be proactively and visibly doing something to try and entice 'occasional' fans to come and see more games"

"None of this is CC's fault and he probably cant have any effect on any of it, but its as valid an excuse for people not coming as blaming the fans themselves ..... you have to make them 'want' to come, not to expect it without making an effort"

Why are attendances low and who is to blame ? The answer to that is EVERYONE and like most spirals it can either be an upward spiral of progress or a downward spiral to oblivion. If we start getting one or two of the factors right then each part can help the others to keep improving rather than stagnating or going backwards.

The Club - entry prices, the 'experience' as described on another thread, the 'presence' etc - the club cannot expect anyone other than the diehards to turn up and must proactively promote the club. There have been a few attempts in the past, but most of these have been short lived, half hearted and ineffective. Ideas have been presented to the club over the years but very few have even been tested let alone implemented. Implementing ideas does however cost money and the club need to see a return on any investment with increased crowds so the fans do have a part to play if the club actually do try something. If they see a return, they can try more initiatives to encourage even more fans, or make money available for Charlie to spend improving the product on the park where he sees fit ...

The Team (players & management) - give us a good product on the park. I dont think anyone would argue with the fact that teams playing well and winning games attract better crowds than if they are not performing but if you dont know which ICT will turn up on matchday or go through a spell where games are not being won or the style is boring and ineffective then 'casual' fans will not turn up. After all, they are going for entertainment rather than a diehard who is going because it is their 'passion' and if they are not entertained, they have no incentive to come back. To be fair to CC and the team, I dont think they ever go out with the intention of losing a game or playing badly but these are the only guys that can work on their own consistency. The team do respond to larger crowds encouraging them - it has been said before many times - so if the club attract more fans, and the players play well, then the crowd get encouraged, make more noise and become more enthusiastic, more 'part-timers' come back, the club can then justify doing more to make them (and those that they encourage) want to come back, the noise gets louder .... etc etc etc

The Fans - Call it Highland apathy, call it laziness, call it frugality, but there are so many reasons why people decide not to turn up. Those who do turn up need to try and encourage others to come along and it is so much easier to do that if the team are playing well or the club are doing something to improve the 'experience' or 'presence' of the club.

As said above - because each of the headings is interconnected - if we can get one or two of these factors moving in the right direction then it can all go in the right direction ....

[tm4tj]

Libero, I was merely offering an answer as to why there were 72 views and 1 reply, it has all been said before, but you are right, it is an important issue.

Scotty, read my post again, I never said that a discussion on the topic was tripe, I said a lot of tripe had been written about it previously.

My reference to CC was more to do with the other thread which started about CC comments in the courier and was picked to shreds by the psychologists on here who know much better.

It is a topic that will crop up every so often, but for me basically, if the interest is not there, you will never encourage another thousand people down to the ground, not until the present malaise is grown out of the present generation.

Anyway, why I never replied earlier to libero was I did not want to go over old ground so soon, but feel free, I will read on with interest and if any new suggestion crop up, fair enough.

As I mentioned before, constructive points are always welcome, but if they only end up on threads on here, will the club take any heed of them?

Enjoy.

[Action Man]

" Old ground is where new seeds should be sown "  :001:

Old proverb...Action man...circa..erm..a wee while ago...! :023:

[Heilandee]

" Old ground is where new seeds should be sown "  :001:

Old proverb...Action man...circa..erm..a wee while ago...! :023:

....and you've sowed a few seed's roond the highlands ower the years eh?