Kelty/ Is this a joke - merged thread

[Robert]

Has anyone managed to keep track of the ownership of items that could be deemed to be assets of the club, and of how the company structure fits together?

In recent times we’ve been told the club owns the ground, car parks, the land for lease next to the North Car Park and the Battery Farm site.

I’m unclear as to what the assets would actually be in the event of the club going into administration, or therefore what options there may be for any “white knight” coming in to rescue things (if only there was one!).

Anyone got a decent understanding of it all?

[LisleRightPeg]

I fear that the bad news/crazy plans will keep coming. The club has a massive opportunity to win the fan base back by blooding some of our homegrown players supported by some experienced players and get our identity back. I watched these young lads go toe to toe vs Hamilton on a plastic pitch and they were so unlucky to not get a better result. Robbie Thompson, Lewis Nicholson, Cammy Mackay, Adam Brooks, Lewis Hyde and Jack Walker to name a few are all good enough for our first team. However I fear our team will be full off central based players who we have no connection with. 

Edited May 27 by LisleRightPeg

[Charles Bannerman]

22 minutes ago, bishbashbosh said:

One important fact missed out by bill leckie comparing us to RC ……….

uncle Roy writing off the debt each year.

just an observation, don’t shoot the messenger 

To be fair, Caley Thistle have also benefited significantly from other people’s money, albeit not to the same extent as Ross County. Tullochs put in £5 million between one thing and another during their period of involvement and there have been other significant inputs such as £800K from Muirfield Mills among £4 million in share uptake in addition to goodness knows how much chipped in by wealthy wellwishers over the years and especially recently. I would estimate the total to be in the ballpark of £10 million, and that’s not including “set up” support like £900K from the Common Good Fund and and £1.5M from other public bodies for the stadium.

On the other hand, I would estimate that Ross County have been given something in the very rough region of £20M - including £11.4M in loans written off by its parent company in the last 10 years alone.

The difference… apart from the scale involved… is that Caley Thistle’s gleanings have been hand to mouth and the product of scratching about in an emergency, whereas County’s subsidy has been stable and dependable (for as long as Roy opts to continue the support.)

Edited May 27 by Charles Bannerman

[Satan]

28 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

If the application was made by ICTFC and appealed by ICTFC then it is all as valid as it ever was. I presume there are then commercial agreements, leases etc, between the relevant companies, which do not have to be published anywhere.

Has it actually been appealed yet?

[RiG]

17 minutes ago, LisleRightPeg said:

I fear that the bad news/crazy plans will keep coming. The club has a massive opportunity to win the fan base back by blooding some of our homegrown players supported by some experienced players and get our identity back. I watched these young lads go toe to toe vs Hamilton on a plastic pitch and they were so unlucky to not get a better result. Robbie Thompson, Lewis Nicholson, Cammy Mackay, Adam Brooks, Lewis Hyde and Jack Walker to name a few are all good enough for our first team. However I fear our team will be full off central based players who we have no connection with. 

TBF when we won the Scottish Cup our team was (mostly) full of players from the English lower leagues and we felt connected with them. I think a bigger issue is not so much where they come from but where they are based. Many players have cited the spirit created by having the players bond when they were up in the Highlands and I think that resonated with fans as well. It made fans and players somewhat alike.

[RiG]

1 minute ago, Satan said:

Has it actually been appealed yet?

No and they have something like 3 weeks to get an appeal in before they lose the opportunity.

[Satan]

1 minute ago, RiG said:

No and they have something like 3 weeks to get an appeal in before they lose the opportunity.

Thought that. Wonder what names will be on the paperwork?

[Satan]

22 minutes ago, Robert said:

Has anyone managed to keep track of the ownership of items that could be deemed to be assets of the club, and of how the company structure fits together?

In recent times we’ve been told the club owns the ground, car parks, the land for lease next to the North Car Park and the Battery Farm site.

I’m unclear as to what the assets would actually be in the event of the club going into administration, or therefore what options there may be for any “white knight” coming in to rescue things (if only there was one!).

Anyone got a decent understanding of it all?

I was under the impression both of the tullochs stands were 'ours' but have been made aware that we might be renting them again off a couple of directors.

[+jagster]

Been on site this morning getting the Pi$$ ripped out of me by joiners and sparkys and laughing at the entire situation saying what a joke club this makes us. I’ve bitten my tongue and pretty much agreed with the things they’ve said. They all know I go to pretty much every game  League. Cups whatever   After speaking with them for a while I think they genuinely feel sorry for the fans and they can’t quite believe what’s happening to us    More time at weekend now for getting on the motorbikes I suppose is a bonus but about the only one I can think of    

[IBM]

7 minutes ago, jagster said:

Been on site this morning getting the Pi$$ ripped out of me by joiners and sparkys and laughing at the entire situation saying what a joke club this makes us. I’ve bitten my tongue and pretty much agreed with the things they’ve said. They all know I go to pretty much every game  League. Cups whatever   After speaking with them for a while I think they genuinely feel sorry for the fans and they can’t quite believe what’s happening to us    More time at weekend now for getting on the motorbikes I suppose is a bonus but about the only one I can think of    

Things are getting worse I will have to get a motorbike now 

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Details about Inverness Caledonian Thistle Properties Limited are here    https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC212228

 

The last balance sheet is dated 31 December 2022 and shows a net liability position of £4.2m. In terms of a going concern, this was based on support from shareholders.

[Scotty]

16 hours ago, Yngwie said:

Has there been anything said yet about the youth set up? From the moment we got relegated I have been assuming that it would be getting axed. There were various comments from the club during our Championship years that they were struggling to find the funds to sustain it. As a League 1 club now, it would be a very pleasant surprise if we were able to keep it going.

15 hours ago, Yngwie said:

The cost of running it has previously been cited as an issue. Others might recall better but I’m pretty sure that when the club were looking for sponsors/funding for the youth set up they said it was costing about £400,000 a year to run? 

Ok, I just can't hold this one back anymore.  It has gnawed away at me since 2020.

When the club asked about 'ideas' for fund raising or cash injection in autumn of 2019 prior to COVID, I did a little groundwork and then spoke with the chairman on WhatsApp. I put him in contact with someone over here who held very large purse strings, and moreover was interested in exploring if there could be some benefit in some form of relationship between ICT and them. Very few specifics - as that was to be discussed - but youth and young players were mentioned. (This was helped by using Ryan Christie as an example of our youth, the fact that Caley had participated in a youth tournament in Toronto many years ago, our community club identity as our ethos, and how we had ascended the leagues over the past 25 years). The only thing that had to happen to kickstart the discussion was a single phone call between the CEO and the person I had talked to. This was in October 2019.

This is a small excerpt from one of the various emails I received back from him at the time: 

"Hi Scott, I’ve been thinking about this a lot.  At this point we are not prepared to purchase a club or give cash, but we are open to taking on some of the costs in soccer operations by either covering the coaching staff and/or loaned players' salaries.  It’s something we’ve been doing with <redacted> a bit this past season.  So would be more cutting expenses then a cash infusion, not sure if that would work or not.  Would be open to explore that if of interest to them."

When I spoke with the other party, in person, in March 2020, just before COVID hit, he confirmed he had not had a call in the previous 5 months, so the organisation had moved on with other plans. So that simple phone call was never made and the opportunity to save costs, generate more ideas, have 'free' loan players (subject to clearances), and see where (if anywhere) that potential relationship would go was lost forever

Now it has to be acknowledged that this is all hypothetical and the discussion may have gone precisely nowhere in the end, especially as COVID then hit, but surely it was worth a phone call to find that out? Would it have helped us out of the current predicament? possibly not, as they were not - at that time - interested in cash infusions, but who knows how any relationship would have developed over the past 5 years if that single first step had been taken... As alluded to before, and as others have said about their own experiences, it is my opinion the phone call was not made because the idea was not from a certain individual.  Instead, we pin our hopes to battery farms and badly organised concerts hoping for the big prize. Are we also buying lottery tickets each week in the hope of getting 6 numbers?  

 

14 hours ago, Jack Waddington said:

Article from the rag, but its managed to nail a bullseye in the dark whilst 14 pints deep

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/12751430/inverness-caley-thistle-kelty-hearts-move-bill-leckie/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ScottishSunSportTwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1716757180-1

It's Bill Leckie who despite the rag, and his proclivities for St Mirren, has been a great grassroots football journalist for decades. He was the one who wrote that article from the 4-3 Livi game many years ago featuring the famous Gringos photo and describing it something along the lines of the "cherry on top of an already scrumptious cake would have been a Caley Thistle equaliser" and then contrasting it to an old firm game the day before where the ref had been hit by a coin. 

Great Article. 

 

[ymip]

Thanks for sharing Scotty. Truly mindboggling that Gardiner looked this potential gift horse in the mouth. It just illustrates the jaw dropping ineptitude and narcissistic nature of our feckless CEO. If he didn't dream up the scheme then it clearly isn't worth consideration. He's demonstrated such a prodigious track record of successful money making ventures over the past five years that it would seem pointless investigating the opportunity to access the networks of others, as opposed to his own rolodex of fellow grifters, shysters and snake oil salesmen. 

Never in the history of mankind has there been a more terrifying example of the tail wagging the dog than the free reign this utter charlatan has been afforded by our clueless board of directors.   

Kelty today, Broadwood (or similar) tomorrow - mark my words.   

Sack the board!

 

 

Edited May 27 by ymip

[+jagster]

1 hour ago, IBM said:

Things are getting worse I will have to get a motorbike now 

Do you fancy using the FireBlade

[Douglas Mackenzie]

When we boil it all down to basics,most of us want a team based in Inverness, who train here,even live here and who play here. A team that can inspire young Highlanders, A team we can support through thick and thin,through success and failure,because it is our team. Where the players come from to play in our team does not matter. We don't care as long as the young boys are given an opprtunity to shine with the big boys and we have a strong successful Academy.

If the big boys don't want to come,fine, we don't want them.

What we want is a team with it's roots well embedded in Inverness and the surrounding area.

What we don't want is a team from Fife, who call themselves ICT and pop up and grace us with their presence for a few hours every other Saturday.

ICT must be a local team, engaging with the community,supporting the community,being part of the community,yes, what we want is a well run local team, deserving of our support.

Locally,nationally,yes even internationally,most are totally bemused and at a loss to understand the rationale behind this decision. How much clout does Gardiner have if he can sell this idea to the board. sad to say,but it really does look like they are buttoned up the back.

[caley1]

2 hours ago, Satan said:

Thought that. Wonder what names will be on the paperwork?

Krusty and coco the clowns

Better known as Gardiner and Morrison 

[LisleRightPeg]

I wonder if the players under contract have had meetings with the club to inform them of this craziness. Going by how things are being run I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they haven’t. The latest podcast episode mentioned a youth player had found out via them. Talk about disrespect

[old caley girl]

3 hours ago, Satan said:

Has it actually been appealed yet?

Wasn't submitted last week when a friend looked anyway 

[Alan]

I think Douglas Mackenzie sums up exactly what the majority of supporters want. Anything else is a non starter and surely with the backlash from fans, former players and manager plus the press and radio commonsense must somehow filter through the brains (if indeed there are any)of the board nembers.

[IT86]

I think most of us can remember Terry Butcher waxing lyrical about how much he enjoyed staying in the area and how welcoming the area was. We need employees with a passion for the area who are prepared to sell it to others. Yes undoubtedly a different financial era and some players will not be interested for various differing reasons but we move on and try and convince others. If those promoting a workplace have no real enthusiasm for the area then we have even less chance of attracting players. And yes lots of the players of the Butcher era were from the English lower leagues but they based themselves here and showed pride and passion for the jersey. They became part of the community and were open and positive when meeting people at the shops, on the golf course, in their everyday lives. We all understand that it’s a different financial and football baseline from which we are working now. However we must build from the same foundations…passionate and committed individuals building from within a community, a team and a club. We seem to have lost this.

[Starscape]

We got to the Scottish Cup Final last season. Even without stealing players from under the noses of the mighty Alloa and East Stirling. Even this season, with a manager with such a a track record of failure, we were one game away from mid-table. Yet we were still going to Kelty no matter what. All we needed was a decent manager.

[Mee]

Hi folks, I last posted years ago on a no longer existing email address but I was compelled to re-register and agree with most of the posts on this thread. The club have to be based in Inverness, there's no two ways about it. I have no confidence that this board have the interests of the club or city at heart and certainly not the fans! They need to go. We need to start again and if that's with local youngsters so be it.

 

Thank you STFU for making me laugh though :)

 

[Scotty]

43 minutes ago, ictmeee2 said:

Hi folks, I last posted years ago on a no longer existing email address but I was compelled to re-register and agree with most of the posts on this thread. The club have to be based in Inverness, there's no two ways about it. I have no confidence that this board have the interests of the club or city at heart and certainly not the fans! They need to go. We need to start again and if that's with local youngsters so be it.

Thank you STFU for making me laugh though

Your old account still exists. Do you want me to merge them under the new email? Send me a PM if you do and confirm the old one, and which username you want and we can get it done. 

[Yngwie]

11 hours ago, RiG said:

As @Fraz mentions TWS chaps dropped a new pod overnight. Links in the embedded Tweet below 

 

Great stuff as usual and good discussion on this issue. Some of it mentioned aspects that haven’t been covered here and which I found quite eye opening

1. the suggestion/revelation that even if we got the battery farm money, this move was still planned? I guess it is unconfirmed speculation, but it was certainly implied that it came from the inside. I am sympathetic to the fact that financial necessity often leads to unpalatable decisions but this suggests it is just a strategic preference.

2. a figure of £300,000 was mentioned - did I hear correctly that this is what we currently spend on accommodation? Surely not?! I was driving at the time so maybe misheard couldn’t rewind it to check. If it’s remotely true, that’s a huge part of our budget being spent not on player wages and you can understand why we’d at least explore how to reduce it.

[Charles Bannerman]

12 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

Great stuff as usual and good discussion on this issue. Some of it mentioned aspects that haven’t been covered here and which I found quite eye opening

1. the suggestion/revelation that even if we got the battery farm money, this move was still planned? I guess it is unconfirmed speculation, but it was certainly implied that it came from the inside. I am sympathetic to the fact that financial necessity often leads to unpalatable decisions but this suggests it is just a strategic preference.

2. a figure of £300,000 was mentioned - did I hear correctly that this is what we currently spend on accommodation? Surely not?! I was driving at the time so maybe misheard couldn’t rewind it to check. If it’s remotely true, that’s a huge part of our budget being spent not on player wages and you can understand why we’d at least explore how to reduce it.

£300K, if we make a ballpark estimate of £500 per month per head in shared accommodation, would represent 600 “person months” of accommodation - in other words, even if it was being paid for all 12 months, this would be enough to accommodate 50 people for a whole year. How many people require to be accommodated, given that a number of them are local? Even £200K would accommodate 33.

Edited May 27 by Charles Bannerman