Niculae

[CaleyD]

We won't be in trouble if we've done everything as we should have....!!!

[hislopsoffsideagain]

Certainly Grassa and the board couldn't organize a p**s-up in a brewery.  All the good work done when Marius bigged us up throughout the Euros is rapidly going down the pan.

The only way this could get more embarrassing is if a member of the board got photographed by the News Of The World having an illicit encounter with Margaret Thatcher.

[RiG]

Was just on STV, ICT have the money but won't sign release papers till Marius signs a Waiver.

Why should Marius have to sign a waiver? This is the part from ICT I don't understand. He had a clause allowing him to go to a bigger club if one was interested and he was always entitled to a share of the transfer. It would look like ICT have decided not to allow him to have this snip of the fee simply because he isn't going to the highest bidder.

[Alex MacLeod]

Seems to me ICT are in the right. Marius agrees to waive his share of the fee in exchange for being sold to Bucharest instead of the highest bidder and now appears to be reneging on the deal. Thats my interpretation from what the media are reporting.

RiG is he going to his or ICT's prefered team

[RossP]

The % that Marius would be entitled to is 20% apparently, which is a huge amount. I doubt many of us would let that kind of money go to our employers rather than our back pocket!

The only defence ICT seem to have is that Marius agreed *quote North Tonight* "in principle to waiving the fee if he could join Dinamo. Unless they have that agreement in writing, i'd imagine they are up creek without a paddle.

Hopefully all this can be put to bed before the end of the week followed by the more positive announcement of contract renewals from our present squad.

[RiG]

Seems to me ICT are in the right.

There's a shock! :015:

Marius agrees to waive his share of the fee in exchange for being sold to Bucharest instead of the highest bidder and now appears to be reneging on the deal. Thats my interpretation from what the media are reporting.

Where has this been reported? I can't recall anything about Marius agreeing to waive his slice of the deal so long as he got to join Dinamo.

EDIT: Looking at RossPs post it would appear to have been on North Tonight.

RiG is he going to his or ICT's prefered team

His preferred. As you can see earlier in the thread I have mentioned/questioned earlier regarding the deal.

Why are ICT refusing to give Marius his agreed cut of the transfer? Is it because he didn't go to the highest bidder?

And:

Wasn't the deal simply that Marius could go if a bigger club made an offer for him and thus he would get a slice of the deal? I've not heard this "highest bidder" bit before.

But I'm no longer sure what was said because it was probably a load of mince anyway whatever it was!

This agreement that marius should waive his cut of the fee is a new one on me and I expect many others.

[CaleyD]

Sorry Alex, but that's BS.

Marius has/had a contract with ICT and that can only be terminated by mutual consent.  So whilst ICT might have found a club willing to pay more, if the player doesn't want to go there or can't agree personal terms then he can't, and shouldn't, be blackmailed as a result.

ICT have/had a choice....if the didn't think the Dinamo offer was high enough and left them with an unsatisfactory amount after ICT had met it's liabilities in terminating the contract with Marius, then they did not have to accept it.

Would you accept your employer terminating your contract early and sending you off to somewhere you didn't want to go on terms you didn't agree with?  Didn't think so, and I fail to see why it should be any different in this case.

[CaleyD]

Rig, ICT are claiming some kind of verbal gentlemans agreement about the waiver of the fee, which is what was reported on North Tonight.

[RiG]

Rig, ICT are claiming some kind of verbal gentlemans agreement about the waiver of the fee, which is what was reported on North Tonight.

Aye I edited my earlier post after seeing Ross Ps one mentioning it.

[CaleyD]

And another thing.....regardless of whether or not you accept that this verbal agreement between club and player exists....if ICT are doing business for deals in the hundreds of thousands and they are relying on "verbal agreements" then it only serves to prove what many have been saying about their incompetence.

[Harry Chibber]

why not wait until this is resolved and we know exactly what's happened before starting a witch hunt.  Every post so far has been based on speculation from the media, who are always likely to put a spin on the situation

... but it doesn't look good as far as the club are concerned

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

This dispute can only be solved by the Club's solicitors Ewe-Shearer, Smooth-Patter and Son. As leading employment law experts on verbal contracts in Scottish football their advice will be invaluable. 

[Joonya]

This still seems to me as some sort of politics battle within ICT.

The hype surrounding Niculaes arrival compaired to the stress, incompetence and 'desperate to release him mood' surrounding his departure only go so far in proving this point.

The truth WILL eventually come out. Perhaps not this week, but it will.

The way the club have treated Marius is a discrace, and they have dragged ICT's name right into the gutter  :33:

[AJS]

sigh...and it just goes on and on and on......

[caley100]

Sorry Alex, but that's BS.

ICT have/had a choice....if the didn't think the Dinamo offer was high enough and left them with an unsatisfactory amount after ICT had met it's liabilities in terminating the contract with Marius, then they did not have to accept it.

Would you accept your employer terminating your contract early and sending you off to somewhere you didn't want to go on terms you didn't agree with?  Didn't think so, and I fail to see why it should be any different in this case.

But this would have led to a very sticky situation would it not?  we refuse to sell MN to bucharest because it a lower fee, we accept the Jerries fee because its the largest, MN says he will not go to Germany, comes back here in the huff!

We had to accept that Marius wanted to go home, we then pull out the lower fee clause, which i'm sure is the board looking after ICT's interests,  stuff Marius, he's not coming back, we need the dosh to buy a defender.... 

[Scotty]

We had to accept that Marius wanted to go home

Did he ? According to some he wanted to sign an extension at ICT but it looked like we couldnt get rid of him fast enough. In the same situation (working abroad), would you not prefer to "go home" rather than back to a third country where you had already been and didnt do that well.........

We then pull out the lower fee clause, which i'm sure is the board looking after ICT's interests,  stuff Marius, he's not coming back, we need the dosh to buy a defender.... 

If this is what they have done then fair play for chancing their hand but if its not in the contract, its not in the contract and we should just accept the fact that someone may have mixed up their ?s and their ?s when looking at the numbers and move on. If it is in the contract then we have nothing to worry about. As for the defender .... I really wonder how much - if any - Brewster will see of this money given recent comments in the press from our DoF.

[Joonya]

it's seeming more and more like this is to do with lining certain shareholders pockets more than the interests of the player or club on a whole.

if ICT as a CLUB wanted to cash in for ?500k, then they surely would have 1 or 2, maybe even 3 signings on the cards to strengthen where we are week - currently at the back, with our strike force coming in a very very close second. Rather than clearing debts that are not actually there!!!

It is, as someone said earlier, astonishing to hear nothing coming from our Chairman, offical website or indeed an official statement in the press. The comments in the paper only read as passing comments and nothing concrete - nothing more than an excuse / cover up for the farce that is happening with this transfer.

Similar happened with Dennis only not on this scale. He too wanted an extention and was offered such a thing - yet someone, somewhere, fecked that up too. Only difference here (besides fees) being that there is one persons name constantly mentioned regarding Niculae that was never mentioned with any other departues - and that name is David Sutherland. But Why???

[L_G]

With Marius having been funded by additional investment in the club then surely there's no need to "claw back" anything to keep the club on an even keel.

If the Finances are heading down the pan then it isn't due to Marius having been at the club.  The Investment by Orion was to fund his being here, so take Marius out of the picture and you take that Investment out of the picture.  Marius will have added to the clubs finances with the money we have received for him being on International Duty at the Euros...so in effect the club SHOULD already have made a net gain from the deal.  Plus the fact he was funded for 2 years means that they will still have the budget for his second year "in the bank" as it were.

The club will have to work harder to spin the alleged downturn in finances than just pointing the finger at Marius.

?270k to fund him for 2 years.

Even if he got ?70k of that as a "singing fee" then that's ?100k we should still have in the bank, plus the ?50k (ish) from him being at the Euros, plus whatever the bottom line is from the sale...let's say a very modest ?250k.  That's a ?400k gain from him having been here for the season.....Sutherland reported a ?500k "hole" in the accounts...and my question to that is....what the feck have we blown ?900,000 "extra" on in the last 12 months as it sure as **** ain't Marius???

Let's take these figures as read as they seem reasonable estimates.  Was it worth it?  Financially - maybe.  :024:

Remember that in return for their investment Orion received a 12% stake in our football club, so I ask again 'Was it worth it'?  :024:

Might have made a few quid, but 12% is a large share of the club so 'Was it worth it'?  :024:

[Scotty]

it's seeming more and more like this is to do with lining certain shareholders pockets more than the interests of the player or club on a whole. if ICT as a CLUB wanted to cash in for £500k, then they surely would have 1 or 2, maybe even 3 signings on the cards to strengthen where we are week - currently at the back, with our strike force coming in a very very close second. Rather than clearing debts that are not actually there!!!

I would be very careful in making statements like that Jnr .... I dont think anyone has suggested that this fee is lining anyone's pockets and unless you can prove it you are on dangerous ground. I have no idea where any money we receive will go or what size "hole" may be in our accounts as they have not been sent to shareholders yet but one thing I am certain of ... despite my frustration at what seems to be a pissing match between former chairmen, the shareholder I think you may be referring to has put far more in over the years than he has ever taken out. I can be angry at him for what I perceive as a needless boardroom conflict but that does not wipe out my positive view of his contribution to ICT over many years.

It is, as someone said earlier, astonishing to hear nothing coming from our Chairman, offical website or indeed an official statement in the press. The comments in the paper only read as passing comments and nothing concrete - nothing more than an excuse / cover up for the farce that is happening with this transfer.

As frustrating as it is, I can understand why nothing has been put on the official website. We can speculate all we like on here, we can publish stories using phrases like "it is our understanding" or "media reports suggest" but when it hits the official website (and the same was true when we were official) it has to be correct as that is then the official story. I am sure Fiona is itching to get the full ICT side of this story up but her hands are tied until others can conclude the deal. I cant say I will necessarily believe the final story, but I can certainly understand why its not there yet. As for the chairman, yes, that does surprise me. He has been completely anonymous since he took over and I am not sure what to make of that. Is he quietly doing thigs in the background? or is he doing nothing? we dont know. Even the 'quietest' chairman we had (Mackie) was more ebullient than Mr Fraser.

Similar happened with Dennis only not on this scale. He too wanted an extention and was offered such a thing - yet someone, somewhere, fecked that up too. Only difference here (besides fees) being that there is one persons name constantly mentioned regarding Niculae that was never mentioned with any other departues - and that name is David Sutherland. But Why???

Dennis was totally different. That initially appeared to be a Brewster screw-up and morphed into something slightly different when no-one ever came out to deny the assertion made by club officials that his agent asked for more money at the 11th hour. I still believe Brewster got this wrong but given that lack of denial I find it a little more palatable than I did at the time. With regards to Niculae, it is my opinion that his fate was sealed the day that Alan Savage stepped down as chairman and as I mentioned above, that his departure had more to do with office politics than a reason on the playing/contractual side.

All in all - whichever side you believe in this Niculae situation, or whatever you think of anyone involved, I think one thing we can ALL agree on is that it is time for it to end, and for it to end NOW.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Harry Chibber is right--dead right.

To date 98%  of the statements posted on here are little more than  pure speculation. But that does not stop some posters from asserting in shrill and almost almost paranoid tones things that could be completely false and probably truly in essence just plain  ridiculous.

If ICT do not want to put anything on the official site they are well within their rights and until this issue is complete, done and thoroughly dusted, to do so would be imprudent and incautious. Which itself might backfire on Caley Thistle. And the suggestions that ICT are always "cocking-up" or "this is another typical error-prone deal" (I paraphrase) these are really emotional utterances and irresponsible. There is no evidence yet that this is the case.

What is correct thinking is that if Marius did agree to waive his cut and has now reneged, if this "understanding"formed part of the written contract then it is legal and it does not matter a toss  what assumptions  are made because the law will sort that one out and Marius is out to lunch and will either be out of pocket or back in Inverness soon. If he does not return to Inverness  soon and is slapped with a breach of contract suit then he could be in deep trouble as a player and also financially. In addition, if the verbal statements were made in front of witnesses who are prepared to testify under oath that he did agree verbally to waive his cut to allow ICT to get more money and the transfer to complete, then ICT are probably the aggrieved party and then he could well lose the battle also. Either way he has a lot to lose and ,as someone else said, hopefully saner heads will prevail and at least a reasonable deal will be worked out.

Or to put it another way the accusations and speculative assumptions about the ICT Board should be held in check until the truth comes out.

As for the suggestion that Dinamo is a tricky eastern European club and ICT have been taken-in because the Management is stupid, too trusting etc, etc, I find that hard to believe. A club of its prominence and stature would be unlikely to stoop to such tactics.

However,  if ICT did not insist on a waiver clause to be included in writing in the contract then they have really screwed up and can truly be viewed as over-trusting or naive in the extreme.  :011:

[ICTodd]

why not wait until this is resolved and we know exactly what's happened before starting a witch hunt.  Every post so far has been based on speculation from the media, who are always likely to put a spin on the situation

... but it doesn't look good as far as the club are concerned

I completely agree with Harry, between everyone on this board, no-one TRUELY knows what's going on! I said before on this thread that the whole Niculae thing is getting beyond a joke, but this thread is now!  :017: Ok Niculae IS GOING and yes the club look bad because of the way things are being handled and going right now anyway, but wait till the dust settles to point fingers! Wait till we know (if we do find out) what the club received and THEN talk about what we could do with that money if its released to Brewster instead of this situation which we can then leave in the past.

[Glebeict]

  The Soap Opera is never ending. So it Seems.

[Ronaldo]

Yep and Little Feat were brilliant. Now lets just sign a centre half and we'll all be happy!

[L_G]

Steve Cairns from Orion was on MFR news this morning, saying that Dinamo have completed their part of the business, but Marius is refusing to sign the waiver.  I can only assume that the agreement to waive the fee (if indeed it exists at all) must have been verbal.  If it was in a legal document he wouldn't have the right to refuse.  Rumours do suggest that it is a fairly substantial amount and if we haven't got it written in stone, then no court in the land will make a judgement in our favour.

We'll no doubt have to pay up and could even be fined by Fifa or Eufa for misconduct. 

As I said above, we have given 12% of our club to Orion into the bargain.  So I'm not sure if it has all been a good move for ICT.  It did serve it's purpose for Marius and Orion have done alright out of it, but I think in the long term ICT have lost any benefits they might have had, by the poor handling of this whole saga. 

[Scotty]

As I said above, we have given 12% of our club to Orion into the bargain.  So I'm not sure if it has all been a good move for ICT.

I would not use the word 'give'. Orion paid 270k for shares and that payment was to be used to cover the wages of MN for up to two years. We are selling him after 1 year (so wages of 135K ?) and it would appear that we will make the whole 270K (and more) back on the deal so Marius will have been a net gain (especially after the Euro cash).

As for the waiver - I understand the number is quite high so I can further understand why both the player and the club are digging their heels in. Ultimately, a verbal contract isnt worth the paper its not written on so if thats all the club have to go on they may as well cut their losses and stump up so this saga can be ended.