Attendances --crisis mounting?

[Scarlet Pimple]

ICT V Motherwell ...attendance down again this week; just over 3,000

East Fife v whoever (slipped my mind LOL) ....677 Remember East Fife were promoted this season and they still won with onbly 9 men on the park.

Ross County versus .......whoever... ........... 232.

Am I seeing things.. only 232 turn up at a promoted County stadium and the Dingwallians expect them to survive.? Was this attendance a mis-report?

These are only 3 results that a sleepy Scarlet stumbled upon this evening. My question is this ...is the the writing on the wall?

If money does not come in the door then the writing could be creeping steadily across the floor and the wall loometh. How can ICT DO anything to make this club progress steadily if this continues.Very little unless the wealthy come to the rescue -- like an Arabian Knight?

Will the Management reduce prices ..they could, but my prediction is that they will not?--- Outdated policies die hard. Fear and indigent concern will trump decisive action.

The disease needs radical cuts and radical thinking--enterprising courageous thinking designed to get more fans in the door, not less. And with the price of sport in general being really high and sport salaries being completely off the wall now and money, as a result, having taken over the sports world like a rapid all-consuming crimping , clawing parasite, is the future bleak or what?

You all noticed how blazingly-fast the current economic crisis ballooned completely out of control , spreading rampant fear and panic everywhere.My thoughts are that the fan (aka the money-earner) not only is coming close to having had enough of overblown pricing and overblown salaries relating to overblown egos on the park but is simply finding the cost of living is dragging them down deeper and deeper and no longer can afford it.

Going to the football , once a mantra chanted with pleasure at thought of the thrills ahead,.....will it soon become a thing of the past --looks like it my dearies.

As a friend said to me recently when I asked him if he was going to buy a seson's ticket for ICT he replied " not with the kind of good English games on the telly like the one I saw last week........." what he was saying I think is why go out in the cold and rain, travel for miles ,have a problem with the parking and then watch a game that is possibly going to leave you feeling disappointed , at a (relatively ) high price, followed by the long slog home ....etc.

What are your thoughts, good bad or badder?

[Kingsmills]

The County attendance was indeed a misprint the official attendance was 10 times the figure reported.

That said, our own attendances are well down this season and, unless we can fgo on at least one extended cup run, are likely to lead to a hole in our finances this financial year.

[caley100]

The weather had a big part in poor attendances on saturday Mr Pimple, it was awful!! ICT have a fan base of about 3000 with another 500 if the weather is good and we are playing well.

There is also another 1000 or so that appear for old firm games, but this is the same for most other teams in the SPL.

Its all about supporting your team, being a fan, some are more fervent than others but at the end of the day getting new young fans is the important thing.

[Ceske Bairn]

The weather indeed did play a big part.

Falkirk only took 500 to Killie on saturday when the norm is around 1000-1200

[PompeyCT]

Attendences are a worry. Fans are the corner stone of any side. It appears to be that people can't take the weather... were a highland club, come on! We shouldnt be put off by weather, we need to support our club, we're in the Premiership for pete's sake!

[Ronaldo]

Same old story, but in my opinion there are people at our club who should be addressing this issue and I have seen no evidence whatsoever that they are.

You have to try?

[Jay_7]

I doubt it's the weather that's keeping folk away! If that was the case there would be definite declines in attendances over the winter months every year. Last winter for example, I can't remember a game with an attendance below 3,700!

The main reason is that money is tight these days. Spend that ?20 and watch us play dysmally or save it for a better cause? No brainer in my opinion! Weather will play a secondary role in keeping folk away though. The prospect of going along to a game on a hot summers day where we are unlikely to win is surely more appealing than the thought of the same game in the middle of winter?

[Council Juice]

I dont think its just a fact that money is tight, its that everyone is telling everyone it's tight too. Alot of peeps could still afford to do what they used to but dont want to know due to the banking crisis.

But if i was stuck for cash and it was as it was on Saturday. I'd prefer to stay inside.

Also people used to complain there was never any games on the telly, now theirs loads. People now like going to the pub for a drink and catch the game while their at it as it works out cheaper for the same 90 minutes and you get pints in with it along with warmth shelter and banter.

[Jay_7]

I dont think its just a fact that money is tight, its that everyone is telling everyone it's tight too. Alot of peeps could still afford to do what they used to but dont want to know due to the banking crisis.

But if i was stuck for cash and it was as it was on Saturday. I'd prefer to stay inside.

Also people used to complain there was never any games on the telly, now theirs loads. People now like going to the pub for a drink and catch the game while their at it as it works out cheaper for the same 90 minutes and you get pints in with it along with warmth shelter and banter.

I didn't word my post very well at all. It was actually the poor quality of entertainment on offer for your ?20 I was getting at. 10 months of paying SPL prices to watch 1st division quality football will only attract customers filled with hope for so long before that hope disappears all together.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Jay_7

[PompeyCT]

Im sorry but if i was living up in Inverness i'd still be a season ticket holder. It doesn't matter how bad the club is we still need a support otherwise our club will be on a further slippery slope. Obviously i can get to only one game a year but its a commitment for me and we need to do the same. It doesnt matter what quality of football we play we still need to back our side.

[Jay_7]

That's up to you. I grudge paying over the odds for anything and football should be no different. It's not like I'm spending that same ?20 on watching any other team. I'm far happier keeping my ?20 to myself than spend it on watching dross, and end up being cold, wet, miserable and more often than not, downright angry.

[PompeyCT]

Dont get me wrong its expensive but it wont get better if we dont support them. We cant complain about results if were not willing to go.

[CaleyD]

IMO a good number of fans are currently feeling a little disillusioned when it comes to ICT. Some aren't liking the performance by the players, some are pulling their hair out at the actions of the manager and some don't like the way certain things are being done off the field. Whether you agree with the thoughts of these people or not, they all believe they have just cause for their complaints.

Whilst the weather and so called credit crunch may be factors in people deciding not to go to the football and genuine reason on their own for others, it's really just another excuse for those who are swithering to decide not to attend.

Prices are much the same as they were last season, and as others have said, I don't think the so called "credit crunch" will be effecting as many people as we might think. It's the same with the weather. It's not as if ICT fans aren't used to cold, wet and windy weather at TCS and it's never done much to put off the fans in the past, so I don't see it as being a key issue all of a sudden.

The underlying issue is that there's a large number of disgruntled fans. If fans are content with the product and the way they are treated as a "customer", then they are less likely to look for excuses to stay away...and if you can go so far as to create happy fans, then they'll start coming up with excuses to attend as opposed to excuses to stay away.

For me personally, satisfaction comes from seeing the squad giving 100% for the time they are on the park and having a manager who motivates and drives the team on to get the best from them. If I'm witnessing that, then I leave the stadium content knowing that win, lose or draw, we gave it our best shot....had we been doing that this season and were still in the same league position then I could accept that things just weren't going for us and that so long as we kept plugging away then our time for a wee run of good results would come.

What I can't accept is that there's 5 or 6 (sometimes more) players out there on a match day who just don't seem fired up for the game, and I can't accept that (from what I see) the Manager is doing little to address that problem. How motivated is a player going to be for the next match if, during the last one he was having a good game yet still finds himself hooked? How hungry are the guys on the bench going to be if they know that the best they can expect is 10 minutes (or less) at the end of the game? How can we expect the team to be fired up enough to push for a win when a manager is making substitutions which scream "we're dropping back and going on the defensive"? or when we're out there losing the battle and we make "like for like" changes....and these are just the things we see on match days.

Aside from the footballing reasons, there's also a good few who refuse to put cash in to the club whilst it employs or is being run by certain people. Again, you may or may not agree with them, but it's a perfectly valid stance for someone to take. Some people don't buy certain newspapers or shop at certain shops or buy certain brands because they don't like or believe in something they have done or are involved in or because they have caused them grief at some point in the past.

We/You can sit here and decry these people, tell them that none of the above matters and it's all about supporting the team "no matter what" and that their excuses are nonsense etc etc.....or we can, as fans, help put pressure on the club to deal with the issues that are giving these people an excuse to stay away in order to help bring more fans to every game, to increase numbers through the gates and improve on the money available for improving the team.

Things will only start to improve when the club, and fans as a whole, start addressing the real reasons numbers are declining. It's easy to look at the surface and blame the credit crunch and bad weather and bury your head to the root causes, but in the long run it fixes nothing and when the credit crunch subsides and the weather improves these excuses will just be replaced by other ones.

Don't get me wrong...those making the excuses have their part to play also. They need to have a good hard think as to why they are really not bothering. Until they stop taking the easy excuse and put their hands up and honestly say "well, had we been playing decent recently and the club showing that they are doing all they can then I might have attended regardless of the weather and the credit crunch, but the truth is, my hearts just not in it just now and that was as good an excuse as any"

That's exactly where I am at the moment, and it does upset me to be sitting at home listening on the radio, but I just can't bring myself to give financial support to the way certain things are/have been done off the pitch. I don't want season after season of "survival is enough" only for us to keep sailing so close to the edge that we eventually fall out of the SPL and perhaps worse. I want people running the club who's ambitions are more than that, who will stand up and say "Survival is NOT enough", that ICT is better than that regardless of what money we have in the bank, and who instil that desire into everyone involved with ICT, be it employees, manager, players or fans.

If we're not good enough, then we're not good enough...such is life, and if you're of the mind that our day will come when we will be relegated, just like any of the 10 teams outwith the OF, then I sure as hell don't want to go down without a fight and without being able to say "we gave it our best"....and that goes for every aspect of ICT, not just what happens on the pitch. It's time for people to set aside personal agendas, grudges and grievances and to start doing what's best for ICT....if they can't do that then ship out and make way for someone else who can, because until that happens then more and more fans are going to become disillusioned and sub 3000 crowds will become the norm.

[Jay_7]

Completely agree CaleyD.

[Council Juice]

yes

[MissICT]

These two weeks past have been the school holidays so people have been away like me.

What was the Celtic attendance?

I missed it as I was watching it in a pub in albufeira, Portugal.

[Alex MacLeod]

For me it was definitely the weather that kept me at home. BBC reported heavy rain and gales. Indeed I think it was probably the only time I've known the Kessock bridge to be closed to high sided vehicles on a match day. For me to travel up by public transport I set of from home just after nine in the morning. If the match was to be called of the decision wouldn't be made till twelve. I'd be pretty close to Sneck by that time and pretty pee'd of at a wasted journey.

[Scotty]

Agree with a lot of what has been said on here, especially CaleyD's last post. Just wanted to add my tuppenceworth in on a couple of points.

The underlying issue is that there's a large number of disgruntled fans. If fans are content with the product and the way they are treated as a "customer", then they are less likely to look for excuses to stay away...and if you can go so far as to create happy fans, then they'll start coming up with excuses to attend as opposed to excuses to stay away.

Unfortunately this statement is true. There are quite a number of disgruntled fans whether people want to acknowledge that or not. For many people, their "disgruntlement" manifests itself silently, the Highland way, and there is nothing said, but it can be seen in the gate figures. I don't think we are talking about thousands of people here. We dont have a huge fan base, so its more likely to be a few hundred. However, because of our small fanbase, a few hundred stay-aways - for whatever reason - damages the club.

I actually believe the club are aware of this and a few people have recognised that it needs to be addressed. For example, the recent creation of the events committee seems to be designed to make sure events are co-ordinated and dont overlap as thay have in the past and are more varied in nature. That events committee is trying to create events that will be of interest to various demographiics in our support whether that be the "normal" fan, season ticket holders, kids, or corporate sponsors and hopefully they will succeed in bringing in more cash. I also believe that things like Boardroom Banter have been reinstated because some within the club realise communication with fans is abysmal and they want to get back to where we were in lower division days when fans could ask questions or make suggestions, and then receive answers or thanks for their ideas and actually feel valued and listened to. We have asked for this to be reinstated since it ended a few years ago and have always met with resistance. Perhaps we were asking the wrong person, but the last time we asked, the response - as you all know - was a lot more positive than the previous dozen or more times !!!

Where I don't believe the club have made any headway is on matchdays. Lets leave performance aside for now - thats a whole other subject - and concentrate on the "ambience". The matchday experience is pretty ropey. We have facilities that are substandard or uninviting (car park, shop, concourse, eateries). We have stewards whose only aim in life seems to be enforcement of a policy that dictates fans are all troublemakers and each and every one should be "encouraged" to behave rather than enjoy, and we have no real "entertainment" before or after the football to encourage people to come along early or to make a day of it.

What would I do ?

1. Fix the car park: I understand we can't put tar down because it has implications on the tax payable for the land but surely we can figure out a way to make it less frustrating to get in/out. I heard a couple of suggestions on my last trip home and I think it was Govan Jaggie who suggested on the BB thread this past week, but there is a simple cone & tape procedure used elsewhere that seems to work ... might be worth a try !

2. Relocate the club shop inside the stadium for match days. There must be somewhere where merchandise can be sold whilst the game is taking place. At half-time people are milling around, waiting in queues etc .... they might buy something if there was a chance. As an internal club shop in the concourse would not be accessible during the week, experiment with a stall or small shop in Eastgate on a short term lease.

3. Paint the concourse to make it appear more inviting, or hang a few classic action shots of the team ... something to brighten up the dull and dingy look while you are waiting for your (burnt or dried up) pie. Add TVs so that you can see half-time results from other games, or show a live feed of what is going on at pitch level.

4. See what options are available for eateries. Is it more staff in the same serving hatches or might there be an opportunity to add more vendors and therefore more variety. If space inside is limited, then why not use outside space (which would also solve the bugbear of "normal" fans who like a smoke and get frustrated when they see hospitality patrons being allowed to go outside). If the club are worried about people getting in without tickets then make it a condition that they have a stub to go out/in.

5. Stewarding needs to be consistent and applied evenly throughout the ground. If away fans are being allowed to stand, then home fans cannot be penalised for the same thing. Stewards should also realise that although we will have the odd ****hole causing bother or needing some additional "encouragement" to behave, the vast majority are customers who are not there to cause trouble after paying what sometimes amounts to a small fortune to get into the ground with friends/family. Treat them accordingly.

6. Entertainment. Every matchday should be an experience that has the potential to last from morning to early evening. Perhaps there might be some mileage in having an inter-school competition each week throughout the season with local schools playing off against each other either before the match starts or in 5 a sides at half-time (or both). Having a school comp before the game would encourage kids and their parents, as well as other fans, to come down early and enjoy. Once the kids have finished playing, give them free tickets to watch the ICT game. Not sure what could be done at half-time but some more varied things perhaps than the flybe challenge. After the game is over, might there be any mileage in playing the reserve games ? Because of distances involved, this is what Toronto FC do and thousands of TFC fans stay behind to watch them (and buy more food/drink).

these are just a few ideas on each of the points I highlighted as being bad - I am sure there are many more ideas out there but if the club start remembering that despite its unique nature, football is still a business, and fans are exceedingly "brand loyal" customers they will improve. If not, then crowds will be an issue forever and customers may choose to switch brands (unlikely) or just not buy as much product (whats happening now).

For me personally, satisfaction comes from seeing the squad giving 100% for the time they are on the park and having a manager who motivates and drives the team on to get the best from them. If I'm witnessing that, then I leave the stadium content knowing that win, lose or draw, we gave it our best shot....had we been doing that this season and were still in the same league position then I could accept that things just weren't going for us and that so long as we kept plugging away then our time for a wee run of good results would come.

What I can't accept is that there's 5 or 6 (sometimes more) players out there on a match day who just don't seem fired up for the game, and I can't accept that (from what I see) the Manager is doing little to address that problem. How motivated is a player going to be for the next match if, during the last one he was having a good game yet still finds himself hooked? How hungry are the guys on the bench going to be if they know that the best they can expect is 10 minutes (or less) at the end of the game? How can we expect the team to be fired up enough to push for a win when a manager is making substitutions which scream "we're dropping back and going on the defensive"? or when we're out there losing the battle and we make "like for like" changes....and these are just the things we see on match days.

I think all that needs be said on this is ...... look at the comments after the Celtic game (a loss but a good performance) or the Kilmarnock game (a nice win) and compare them to this weekend or any other weekend where we suffered a disappointing loss.

What worries me is the consistency. How can a team that performs so well in the games I mentioned produce guff the next week ?

[absent friend]

..........being able to say "we gave it our best"....and that goes for every aspect of ICT, not just what happens on the pitch. [b]It's time for people to set aside personal agendas, grudges and grievances and to start doing what's best for ICT....[/b]if they can't do that then ship out and make way for someone else who can, because until that happens then more and more fans are going to become disillusioned and sub 3000 crowds will become the norm.

I know you have brought me to task in the past for selective editing BUT in this case to carry all the content down would be unnecessary when I just want to ask you to consider the area highlighted and ask if this could be something you could consider.

Now on a broader point,....... of course, we all could have reasons for non attendance, some however will come into the 'facts fit' category and use their none attendance, not because they could not be bother getting off their butts from the front of the telly, where they could sit and enjoy the well prepared adverts, but blame Brew/weather/subs/cost/sweetie rustlers/ car park or our current place in the league, instead of being honest.

Will a better run of form bring bigger crowds, possibly ( 'you only watch when your winning' comes to mind) - better weather, I am not aware of a severe change in the Sneck climate - lower prices, don't subscribe to any huge increase this year - change of manager, I suppose if we had the 'Chosen One' this would ensure 7000 at all home games, the other 3500 being the media!

[Alex MacLeod]

Firstly. I never seen the match so cant comment other than to say listening on the radio It didn't seem like a bad performance and reading the newspapers the same conclusion could be arrived at. We created planty chances but couldn't find the net.

Carpark....I believe we have no carpark stewards after the game because some selfish @rse deliberately bumped into a steward who was trying to control the traffic flow. If that is so then what chance they adhere to tape and bollards. As for the taxation thing if the carpark is surfaced I'm sure the club would easily cover this with parking fee's. At the moment there is nobody taking cash for parking before 2pm on a saturday. By this time the carpark is half full.

Shop....definitaley something that needs attention.

TV's in mainstand concourse's.........I was speaking to Les Kidger about this very thing a couple of weeks ago and my understanding is that it will happen.

Entertainment..........this is another that could be sorted fairly easily if heads were put together. Even a pipe band would be better than what's there at present. Perhaps cheerleaders. It woult take too much thought, and little cost, to make the whole matchday experience more enjoyable for the fan.

[Scotty]

Will a better run of form bring bigger crowds, possibly ( 'you only watch when your winning' comes to mind)

This is a problem that Kilmarnock are trying to figure out !!! Its not just an ICT problem.

[sexycalie]

I must say the first match i attended at Tullock Stadium I was very disappointed as a fan of football Why do the fans not sing and encourage there team - forget about the stewards telling them to be quiet this is your team and you should show support i.e by singing / put some flags up etc like every other team in Scotland and the U.K - sure thats all part of the day. Also they need to put up T.V for the supporters at half time - get the club shop selling merchandise at half time and before the match starts - Another way to get more kids etc into the ground and bums on seats - have a kids match at half time this will bring along parents as well.

[Kirishima]

A very interesting and constructive thread this one. Not being able to go to the games as often as I would like ido take the chance when im home. It is an expensive day out, 20 quid for the match, 5 quid for programme, food and drink. Not solely ICT of course, a nationwide thing.

I follow Sagan Tosu in Japan, J2. It costs 1500 yen a game for a main stand ticket which is equivalent to 10 pounds and i get a goodie bag at the entrance which includes a programme of sorts. Fans are allowed in and out for a smoke with their ticket, anytime, an array of food and drink including beer is available both at a counter or to your seat via roaming staff with trays of goodies.

There is pre and post match entertainment, specifically a speech by the captain and manager pitchside by microphone to the supporters after the game on their thoughts, good or bad. Merchandise is available outside the ground, on matchdays.

They have a singing section behind the goal with 12ft flag poles, and flags, with flags draped everywhere possible. The singing section stands the entire time, or jumps more accurately.

The nearest train station is a sea of Turquoise and pink on matchdays (club colours unfortunately) not with fans but flags and pictures and banners paid for by the club and in agreement with the train station to hook more people into going.

Thing is i feel like a customer there. At ICT, because of the catering, stewards and executives, you feel more like a necessary evil. I wont be surprised if attendances fall, the product isnt value for money.

Im sure the club if they read this will just put it down to typical dour scot whinger, but thats the problem. I dont think day-to-day they really try to improve/develop the club for the fans because they think of themselves. They are their to serve us, not the other way around.

Online ticketing? Nothing. Catering? Nothing. Car Park? Nothing. Pricing? Nothing. Perhaps Scotty is right and they are beginning to start but these problems are 5 years old. The efforts they make are to get more people into Hospitality/boxes, thats where you are suddenly a customer and not a necessary evil.

[Alex MacLeod]

Are we really down on attendances. The average for this time last season was 5368 whereas this season its 4959. Down 409 but the teams we played at home last season were Rangers, Dundee U, Hearts, Falkirk and Aberdeen. Rangers crowd was 7711 and Aberdeen 6023. The others all bring a reasonable support as well and all gates were above 4000 with Hearts close of 5000. This season we've had Hamilton, Hibs, St Mirren, Killie, Celtic and Motherwell. Hamilton and St Mirren dont bring more than a few dozen fans. The rest have always been just above the 4000 mark apart from Celtic. Lets wait till we've played everyone at home and see if we are losing out on crowds.

[CaleyD]

I feel a graph coming on