Who is to blame?

[TopSix]

We come down, we're the team to beat. Who is to blame for the situation we're in. TB and MM? The players? Or the board and lack of investment?

All of the new threads today have been aimed at the management team and the players which, while I understand the frustration and upset, are hardly constructive and helpful.

What will be the situation come January? Will there be ANY money to strengthen the squad?

Just thoughts...

[Georgeios]

Terry. He would have made promises to the board that if we went down he had contacts.... eh turns out they are all lower leauge English sides with players not making the grade down there.... so we take them on.. Terry end off.. MM is atleast here all the time doing his job.... the team seem to be finding there legs fittness wise but tacktics... eh no.

[AJS]

Would have too agree with what Georgios is saying.

There were alot of players within Scotland who would have been worth trying to sign but we didnt even look in that department i guess. This was a big mistake imo as every player we brought in is totally inexperienced in this country and have barely played a handful of games for their previous club. It is almost as identical as last summer. We brought in inexperienced players and we struggled as we let go of so much already within the team.

TB's other commitments don't help much either as he is barely there during the week and today was a perfect example. He was missing for 3 days with Scotland and he wasnt even going to Japan! This must affect the players as they play for this man week in, week out yet there have been occaisions were they have barely seen him.

I understand there have been cuts financially but the board have to let some more money become available because this team is still lacking alot and that needs to be sorted. Regardless of what position we are in come January.

Those are the 3 key areas that i think are to blame. I don't think it is a case of who, more what.

[Iain]

Its frustrating though, but the buck does have to stop with the manager, although he's just about the only one who looks like he wants to win on matchdays.

[WYNESS101]

Just wait for IHE to come on he'll tell use whos fault it is....

[Georgeios]

Just wait for IHE to come on he'll tell use whos fault it is....

It'll be worth waiting up for but I've got jobs on early tmrw, not looking forward to tmrw on here, poor mods.... I thing all threads should be put in to one.... call it FAO Terry...

[DornochCaley]

The fact is, Butcher has the will to win and he really cares. He looks like he really cares. But the problem is we arnt winning and thats the bottom line. Far enough if we were playing good football and drawing or the odd loss but we are playing terrible football. Highland League is of better standered.

[Onward and Upward]

I really don't think we can just blame Terry and Maurice. The whole shebang needs to be looked at from the Board down to the Players, there are too many issues at EVERY level to just scream for the managers head!

[CaleyD]

Are expectations too high? Absolutely, they are....and it's the fault of the board who made promises of plans and intentions to "bounce straight back up". The fans were quick to latch on to that idea, which was understandable as it's what we would all like, but the Board have done nothing, zip, zadda, zero to demonstrate that it was/is anything but hot air and/or telling fans what they thought they wanted to hear because it would somehow relieve the pressure on them for the events that led to our relegation in the first place.

The biggest problem with the high expectations is not the fans wanting/expecting to win, it's the pressure that it's put on the Management and Players to deliver....and that's where I think the problem lies, and why we perhaps perform a bit better on the road away from the pressure of the home crowd.

Terry and the Players are out there trying to deliver an impossible promise, a promise delivered by faceless Directors with comfy day jobs who will suffer not a jot from how well we do or don't do, Directors who opened their mouths and let their bellies rumble and have done nothing to bring in the investment required to deliver on the promise.

[DornochCaley]

Are expectations too high? Absolutely, they are....and it's the fault of the board who made promises of plans and intentions to "bounce straight back up". The fans were quick to latch on to that idea, which was understandable as it's what we would all like, but the Board have done nothing, zip, zadda, zero to demonstrate that it was/is anything but hot air and/or telling fans what they thought they wanted to hear because it would somehow relieve the pressure on them for the events that led to our relegation in the first place.

The biggest problem with the high expectations is not the fans wanting/expecting to win, it's the pressure that it's put on the Management and Players to deliver....and that's where I think the problem lies, and why we perhaps perform a bit better on the road away from the pressure of the home crowd.

Terry and the Players are out there trying to deliver an impossible promise, a promise delivered by faceless Directors with comfy day jobs who will suffer not a jot from how well we do or don't do, Directors who opened their mouths and let their bellies rumble and have done nothing to bring in the investment required to deliver on the promise.

Spot on.

[Jay_7]

The important thing to remember here is that we can't actually do anything about the root of all the problems at the club because he's officially not accountable for anything.

This is a man who relinquished the chairmanship, but not his controlling stake in the club so he could be "out of the limelight" I think was the term he used at the time.

Ultimately, our club is slowly but surely being killed and there isn't a sodding thing any of us can do.

[stevico1]

Are expectations too high? Absolutely, they are....and it's the fault of the board who made promises of plans and intentions to "bounce straight back up". The fans were quick to latch on to that idea, which was understandable as it's what we would all like, but the Board have done nothing, zip, zadda, zero to demonstrate that it was/is anything but hot air and/or telling fans what they thought they wanted to hear because it would somehow relieve the pressure on them for the events that led to our relegation in the first place.

The biggest problem with the high expectations is not the fans wanting/expecting to win, it's the pressure that it's put on the Management and Players to deliver....and that's where I think the problem lies, and why we perhaps perform a bit better on the road away from the pressure of the home crowd.

Terry and the Players are out there trying to deliver an impossible promise, a promise delivered by faceless Directors with comfy day jobs who will suffer not a jot from how well we do or don't do, Directors who opened their mouths and let their bellies rumble and have done nothing to bring in the investment required to deliver on the promise.

Don I think we both agreed that to see a team that would attack and to say the least would make an attempt at entertainment would be a huge approvement ,this has got worse and 4-5-1 under butcher is the final demise of the club

Edited October 11, 2009 by stevico1

[DornochJAGGIE]

Our expectations were definately too high. Hardly any teams bounce straight up, because they lose most of theyre good players. Any team can beat anyone on its day.

[Iain]

Agree 100% with everything CaleyD has said there.

[stevico1]

Are expectations too high? Absolutely, they are....and it's the fault of the board who made promises of plans and intentions to "bounce straight back up". The fans were quick to latch on to that idea, which was understandable as it's what we would all like, but the Board have done nothing, zip, zadda, zero to demonstrate that it was/is anything but hot air and/or telling fans what they thought they wanted to hear because it would somehow relieve the pressure on them for the events that led to our relegation in the first place.

The biggest problem with the high expectations is not the fans wanting/expecting to win, it's the pressure that it's put on the Management and Players to deliver....and that's where I think the problem lies, and why we perhaps perform a bit better on the road away from the pressure of the home crowd.

Terry and the Players are out there trying to deliver an impossible promise, a promise delivered by faceless Directors with comfy day jobs who will suffer not a jot from how well we do or don't do, Directors who opened their mouths and let their bellies rumble and have done nothing to bring in the investment required to deliver on the promise.

Don while I tend to agree that expectations are a bit high, surely its not to high to expect a bit more than 1 home point than we have thus far and butcher has to be responsible for that.

[SMEE]

I have often thought about whether or not we have been spoilt as fans in our short but progressive history. And i think the bottom line is.... maybe we have....and we are now experiencing the realites of the game as we settle down and are finding our level.

I think the main problem is the nature of the gutless, negative performances the fans are being subjected to. I can handle defeat, IF, there is a bit of fight from the team, and that seems to be lacking.

[Georgeios]

I have often thought about whether or not we have been spoilt as fans in our short but progressive history. And i think the bottom line is.... maybe we have....and we are now experiencing the realites of the game as we settle down and are finding our level.

I think the main problem is the nature of the gutless, negative performances the fans are being subjected to. I can handle defeat, IF, there is a bit of fight from the team, and that seems to be lacking.

:025:

:025:

[Caley Stan]

Are expectations too high? Absolutely, they are....and it's the fault of the board who made promises of plans and intentions to "bounce straight back up". The fans were quick to latch on to that idea, which was understandable as it's what we would all like, but the Board have done nothing, zip, zadda, zero to demonstrate that it was/is anything but hot air and/or telling fans what they thought they wanted to hear because it would somehow relieve the pressure on them for the events that led to our relegation in the first place.

The biggest problem with the high expectations is not the fans wanting/expecting to win, it's the pressure that it's put on the Management and Players to deliver....and that's where I think the problem lies, and why we perhaps perform a bit better on the road away from the pressure of the home crowd.

Terry and the Players are out there trying to deliver an impossible promise, a promise delivered by faceless Directors with comfy day jobs who will suffer not a jot from how well we do or don't do, Directors who opened their mouths and let their bellies rumble and have done nothing to bring in the investment required to deliver on the promise.

I think this is an important point. From what i've seen of our home form this season, we haven't been playing badly but there has been a nervousness about our play which has resulted in some basic mistakes. This is entirely understandable. Most of the players are on one-year deals and their own futures are dependent on them having a good season. This is a heavy load for many of the young, inexperieced, previously rejected players that have come in. Hopefully the fall-out from yesterday's result will be an emphasis on longer term thinking from everyone. We aren't going to be promoted so we have to look at building a team for the future.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Are expectations too high? Absolutely, they are....and it's the fault of the board who made promises of plans and intentions to "bounce straight back up". The fans were quick to latch on to that idea, which was understandable as it's what we would all like, but the Board have done nothing, zip, zadda, zero to demonstrate that it was/is anything but hot air and/or telling fans what they thought they wanted to hear because it would somehow relieve the pressure on them for the events that led to our relegation in the first place.

The biggest problem with the high expectations is not the fans wanting/expecting to win, it's the pressure that it's put on the Management and Players to deliver....and that's where I think the problem lies, and why we perhaps perform a bit better on the road away from the pressure of the home crowd.

Terry and the Players are out there trying to deliver an impossible promise, a promise delivered by faceless Directors with comfy day jobs who will suffer not a jot from how well we do or don't do, Directors who opened their mouths and let their bellies rumble and have done nothing to bring in the investment required to deliver on the promise.

I think this is an important point. From what i've seen of our home form this season, we haven't been playing badly but there has been a nervousness about our play which has resulted in some basic mistakes. This is entirely understandable. Most of the players are on one-year deals and their own futures are dependent on them having a good season. This is a heavy load for many of the young, inexperieced, previously rejected players that have come in. Hopefully the fall-out from yesterday's result will be an emphasis on longer term thinking from everyone. We aren't going to be promoted so we have to look at building a team for the future.

Well I suppose my views are clear - as per CD if not stronger. I agree with Stan - but to build a team you need a reliable builder and an experienced site gaffer - any one know one ?

[12th Man]

Expectations are definitely too high compared to the players output.

A reality check is in order, the team need to respect the opposition, each other, improve within themselves and as a team, I don't know if getting drunk is still high on some players agenda, a choice has to be made between where you want your career to go. It took Bary Robsons loan to Forfar to work that one out,although Barry was quite funny with the shot in back in those days it didn't help his career.

Once the new team gels together, a change in attitude and with Dougie and Flash Eric back in the line up, all going well we may still win the league.

False confidence wont win the league, self respect and respect for each other can only strengthen the team.(Fabio Capello would be taking the players out for a meal) I still have an open mind as to if we can still win the league but if the current form continues into mid November then I would have to say no.

The drinking ban also applies to TB, its up to the manager to teach the players how to outwit the opposition and you cant do that with a fuzzy brain.

[Caley Stan]

Well I suppose my views are clear - as per CD if not stronger. I agree with Stan - but to build a team you need a reliable builder and an experienced site gaffer - any one know one ?

I hear Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas did a fine job building a Motherwell team from scratch after a difficult start.

[PullMyFinger]

Well I suppose my views are clear - as per CD if not stronger. I agree with Stan - but to build a team you need a reliable builder and an experienced site gaffer - any one know one ?

I hear Terry Butcher and Maurice Malpas did a fine job building a Motherwell team from scratch after a difficult start.

Very true, however they had the benefit of Falkirks stadium being non-compliant to keep them in the SPL otherwise they'd have been in our predicament and I seriously doubt they could have gained promotion from a highly competitive first division.

[Oddquine]

Are expectations too high? Absolutely, they are....and it's the fault of the board who made promises of plans and intentions to "bounce straight back up". The fans were quick to latch on to that idea, which was understandable as it's what we would all like, but the Board have done nothing, zip, zadda, zero to demonstrate that it was/is anything but hot air and/or telling fans what they thought they wanted to hear because it would somehow relieve the pressure on them for the events that led to our relegation in the first place.

The biggest problem with the high expectations is not the fans wanting/expecting to win, it's the pressure that it's put on the Management and Players to deliver....and that's where I think the problem lies, and why we perhaps perform a bit better on the road away from the pressure of the home crowd.

Terry and the Players are out there trying to deliver an impossible promise, a promise delivered by faceless Directors with comfy day jobs who will suffer not a jot from how well we do or don't do, Directors who opened their mouths and let their bellies rumble and have done nothing to bring in the investment required to deliver on the promise.

Exactly. Very sensible post.

I'm still wondering what qualifications Graeme Bennett has to be Director of Football, for example. It kinda worries me, when you go to the Director's page on the ICT website, and every one of them are advertising their businesses and not telling us of their footballing CVs.

Makes the cynical wonder if ICT is just a vehicle for getting their businesses in the public eye furth of the local community.

Imo, that is a Highland League standard, not the standard for even the SFL, far less the Premier League. Have a read of the Ross County FC website and see if you can find their Directors promoting their businesses via the official website bar as Match/Ball/ Man of the Match etc sponsors.

I also kinda wonder just how many in the main stand are truly ICT supporters at all, and how many are "guests" of the directors. I know that when ICT were in the Premier League, the Clydedale Bank were entitled to seats for "corporate hospitality".....and it would not surprise me at all if the same entitlement does not apply to the businesses connected with the directors.

[PullMyFinger]

I'm still wondering what qualifications Graeme Bennett has to be Director of Football, for example. It kinda worries me, when you go to the Director's page on the ICT website, and every one of them are advertising their businesses and not telling us of their footballing CVs.

Makes the cynical wonder if ICT is just a vehicle for getting their businesses in the public eye furth of the local community.

Imo, that is a Highland League standard, not the standard for even the SFL, far less the Premier League. Have a read of the Ross County FC website and see if you can find their Directors promoting their businesses via the official website bar as Match/Ball/ Man of the Match etc sponsors.

I also kinda wonder just how many in the main stand are truly ICT supporters at all, and how many are "guests" of the directors. I know that when ICT were in the Premier League, the Clydedale Bank were entitled to seats for "corporate hospitality".....and it would not surprise me at all if the same entitlement does not apply to the businesses connected with the directors.

The Directors are advertising their businesses but as they are afforded time away from those businesses to deal with ICT issues it is only fair.

Grass is a Director of a local Double Glazing business and also was a semi-professional footballer plying his trade in the Highland League and was a regular feature in Caledonian Thistle's 3rd division days hoofing the ball into the Inverness Firth.

Corporate "Sponsors" receive an allocation of matchday tickets but this is all part of the deal struck, all players/club officials can receive tickets when requested and this is the same in every club up and down the country.

[RiG]

Grass is a Director of a local Double Glazing business and also was a semi-professional footballer plying his trade in the Highland League and was a regular feature in Caledonian Thistle's 3rd division days hoofing the ball into the Inverness Firth.

Some talent to have done that from Telford Street!

Edited October 12, 2009 by RiG