A sackable offence

[+Tree]

Frankly I'm baffled as to how some are trying to justify what has apparently been said by Butcher.

I agree that there is too much negativity from a number of fans with critisism of every error (the best was from a female fan sitting behind me who critised Esson for "just kicking the ball anywhere!" - at the time he was returning it to the middle of the park so that a free kick could be taken :angry:)

The level of critisism against players has perhaps reached an unreasonable level, however is understandable given the circumstances of our home form over the past few seasons.

This does not excuse or justify the actions of Butcher.

Exactly what does the manager think will happen in future games? Now that he has called the fans behind the goal f****** a******* (allegedly at least) I suppose he will be willing to accept the same sort of abuse back from the fans, possibly leading to a continued deterioration in the relationships.

The alternative is that many fans will stop coming to games. Under the current circumstances I suspect that Ticket renewals for next season are unlikely to be close to the current levels, even if we are promoted (as highly unrealistic as this seems at this moment). This situation is going to create an even greater problems in terms of the budget that is available.

[Georgeios]

Great post tree, thats got me thinking....

We who bought, New or Renewed Season tickets did so with the promise of 10% of next year, if we keep going the way we are, and ended up in the 2nd div would we all get free season tickets as 10% of not much is funk all at all.... hummmmmmm

[RiG]

You are speculating that Tokely being sent off lost us the game.

I expect better.

I am speculating that his actions contributed to us losing the game. I fail to see how it is Butchers fault that Tokely was sent off.

[Renegade]

Butcher put him in at centre-half, whilst the natural centre-half in Mihadjuks started at right back. Madness.

[PullMyFinger]

You are speculating that Tokely being sent off lost us the game.

I expect better.

I am speculating that his actions contributed to us losing the game. I fail to see how it is Butchers fault that Tokely was sent off.

Who said that? :angry:

The manager is responsible for results on the park. He selects the players and dictates the tactics. What is your point RIG?

[Renegade]

Notice as well, that Butcher is very quick to tell everyone how bad the team was how the fans had every right to boo them off, but when the tide changes and the negative comments are made about him, he can't take it.

[RiG]

Who said that? :angry:

The manager is responsible for results on the park. He selects the players and dictates the tactics. What is your point RIG?

You are getting at it in your earlier posts. My point is simply there are a number of factors as to what contributed to our relegation on the final day of the season. Tokelys sending off being perhaps the biggest one.

[PullMyFinger]

Who said that? :angry:

The manager is responsible for results on the park. He selects the players and dictates the tactics. What is your point RIG?

You are getting at it in your earlier posts. My point is simply there are a number of factors as to what contributed to our relegation on the final day of the season. Tokelys sending off being perhaps the biggest one.

The biggest factor that contributed to our relegation on the last day was the fact that we had not already assured safety.

Simple really, Butcher relegated us. Brewster did the ground work but Butcher finished us off.

[Johnboy]

We drew two, and lost two of our last four games of last season - thanks to Butcher's fall-out with Esson, and his insistence that Tokely could be a better centre half than full back.

These decisions cost us our place in the SPL....

Butcher is now finding out what many before him have found out...

Once you are in Div 1 it is anything but easy to get out of it.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Johnboy

[Stevie]

We drew two, and lost two of our last four games of last season - thanks to Butcher's fall-out with Esson, and his insistence that Tokely could be a better centre half than full back.

These decisions cost us our place in the SPL....

Agree with you Johnboy

[strathyjags]

ok butcher shouldnt have been subjected to the abuse,BUT no matter how much abuse he got,theres no way he should of said what he did,totally out of order

[RiG]

I don't think relegation lies solely with Butcher. I view it as a cumulation of a number of factors. I am not Pro Butcher nor am I anti Butcher incidentally.

[PullMyFinger]

I don't think relegation lies solely with Butcher. I view it as a cumulation of a number of factors. I am not Pro Butcher nor am I anti Butcher incidentally.

I'm pro ICT and see the current set-up at both Board and Managerial level as a threat to the very foundation of the club. We are on a slippery slope.

[RiG]

Very much so. We've been on one for a long time now and I don't see it getting any better sadly. We absolutely had to stay in the SPL last season and I really don't see us getting back there for a long time.

[davie]

Don't know about a slippery slope. If you look at things rationally, we are no better and no worse than the majority of clubs in this division and I think that's proved by results. So I don't think we will really know who's going up until April at the earliest. Given that with wins against twa fifers we could be back up there, this might be a tad premature of a time to panic. I an't pro Butcher BTW, I'm pro ICT.

[PullMyFinger]

Don't know about a slippery slope. If you look at things rationally, we are no better and no worse than the majority of clubs in this division and I think that's proved by results. So I don't think we will really know who's going up until April at the earliest. Given that with wins against twa fifers we could be back up there, this might be a tad premature of a time to panic. I an't pro Butcher BTW, I'm pro ICT.

I'd leave it to May for predictions to be on the safe side.

There is no panic but the fans deserve better than they are getting.

Is Butcher fulfilling his contract and realising his own potential for the benefit of this club? Or is he spreading himself too thin on the ground?

[caleykid1994]

Or is he spreading himself too thin on the ground?

Even if he devoted 100% to ICT i doubt he has the ability to stop this.

John Robertson(or have you all forgot) has won TWO 1st division titles with TWO different clubs, That could well have been THREE had County not got ahead of themselves. Why shouldnt we take him back? If he was offered Hearts again i know for a fact he wont take it. He lives in Inverness, his girlfriend is from Inverness and i believe that he is more an ICT man than a Jambo(despite all that has happened in his career). He will look out for the club and uim sure he doesnt want to see this club deteriorate any further

[PullMyFinger]

Or is he spreading himself too thin on the ground?

Even if he devoted 100% to ICT i doubt he has the ability to stop this.

John Robertson(or have you all forgot) has won TWO 1st division titles with TWO different clubs, That could well have been THREE had County not got ahead of themselves. Why shouldnt we take him back? If he was offered Hearts again i know for a fact he wont take it.

Don't fool yourself, money talks.

Who else did he win the first with?

[Harry Chibber]

Who said that?

The manager is responsible for results on the park. He selects the players and dictates the tactics. What is your point RIG?

You are getting at it in your earlier posts. My point is simply there are a number of factors as to what contributed to our relegation on the final day of the season. Tokelys sending off being perhaps the biggest one.

The biggest factor that contributed to our relegation on the last day was the fact that we had not already assured safety.

Simple really, Butcher relegated us. Brewster did the ground work but Butcher finished us off.

You're a broken record... and what's worse is that you are talking absolute p!sh! No one ... NO ONE... could have saved us from the position we were in but at least Butcher gave it a good go. The one result that we should have done more about is the Motherwell game when we were minutes from safety but we could have expected to lose before the fixture had kicked off.

I'd agree with most of your other posts but I'm sick of hearing how it's "Butchers fault we were relegated"... absolute boll0x!

[Alex MacLeod]

Whether or not I think Butcher and Malpas are the right team to be in charge is irrelevant. As to our relegation, we were heading for relegation long before Butcher came along. As Chibber say's, nobody could have gotten us out of that situation. Butcher and Malpas gave it a go though and it very nearly paid off. Personally I wouldn't call for his head. I'd hope the directors would see what needs to be done. And if they can't see the problems than should they be running this club?

However, I would demand, and expect, an apology to be forthcoming for the tirade of abuse directed at fans. I never caught what was shouted when Malpas kicked of with his 'if you dont like it f*** off' mouthful. Maybe it was called for, maybe it wasn't. I can't say. I can say though that the tirade from Butcher when he clocked a number of fans walking out at the Queen's second goal was diabolical. It was an unwarranted rant to try and turn blame away from himself. Yes there was some retaliation to his ranting but he's the one who lost control and he's the one who should be apologising.

[kencar]

Who said that? :025:

The manager is responsible for results on the park. He selects the players and dictates the tactics. What is your point RIG?

You are getting at it in your earlier posts. My point is simply there are a number of factors as to what contributed to our relegation on the final day of the season. Tokelys sending off being perhaps the biggest one.

The biggest factor that contributed to our relegation on the last day was the fact that we had not already assured safety.

Simple really, Butcher relegated us. Brewster did the ground work but Butcher finished us off.

You're a broken record... and what's worse is that you are talking absolute p!sh! No one ... NO ONE... could have saved us from the position we were in but at least Butcher gave it a good go. The one result that we should have done more about is the Motherwell game when we were minutes from safety but we could have expected to lose before the fixture had kicked off.

I'd agree with most of your other posts but I'm sick of hearing how it's "Butchers fault we were relegated"... absolute boll0x!

Sorry HC but perhaps you are forgetting we were 4 points ahead of Falkirk with only 3 games to go and we somehow managed to blow it. Butcher took us to the brink of safety but then sadly it went horrible wrong

[Harry Chibber]

Sorry HC but perhaps you are forgetting we were 4 points ahead of Falkirk with only 3 games to go and we somehow managed to blow it. Butcher took us to the brink of safety but then sadly it went horrible wrong

Who put us in that position?

Look I'm not being pro-Butcher, I'm getting just as angry as the rest of our fans but to say that it's his fault for us being relegated is ridiculous when you consider the state we were in before he joined the club and how little time he had to implement these changes.

[Fanoffooty]

Sorry HC but perhaps you are forgetting we were 4 points ahead of Falkirk with only 3 games to go and we somehow managed to blow it. Butcher took us to the brink of safety but then sadly it went horrible wrong

Who put us in that position?

Look I'm not being pro-Butcher, I'm getting just as angry as the rest of our fans but to say that it's his fault for us being relegated is ridiculous when you consider the state we were in before he joined the club and how little time he had to implement these changes.

Is there really any point in going over old ground :025:

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Bottom line is we were ahead of falkirk by 4 points with 3 games to play then Butcher tinkered with the side and we were relegated making it Butchers fault , the buck stops with the manager as in any walk of life . All this " no-one could have saved us from relegation " is absolute nonsense .

[Harry Chibber]

Bottom line is we were ahead of falkirk by 4 points with 3 games to play then Butcher tinkered with the side and we were relegated making it Butchers fault , the buck stops with the manager as in any walk of life . All this " no-one could have saved us from relegation " is absolute nonsense .

So you expected to be in the SPL next season when Butcher took charge?