Rangers go into administration

[+bughtmaster]

Please can it be over?

Not by a long long way!............be patient comeuppance is still on the cards!

[ICTRoughi]

Please can it be over?

Not by a long long way!............be patient comeuppance is still on the cards!

If they get this CVA, then they will get away with it.

End of the day, HMRC will have to accept CVA because they risk not getting a penny if the Old Co is liquidated.

[Sorted]

The acceptance of the CVA is a hell of a long way from a foregone conclusion. Even if, in the highly unlikely event that HMRC were inclined to accept, can you imagine the consequences of the decision and the implications for the organisation going forward? Also, as I understand it the CVA can only apply to the Wee Tax Case (the known and acknowledged debt accrued under the Whyte tenure) and not the Big Tax Case which still has to be concluded.

I ask myself why Green, or any other prospective owner would wish the CVA to be approved and the existing company continue to trade with the BTC shadow still to come? It's all a game with the known result of liquidation still to come. Green will be able to say 'I did my best' and the liabilities will be removed in totality.

The final piece of the jigsaw will be the pay off to Craig Whyte for the removal of his charge over the key assets. If you listen to what is being said by DP, Green and the media, reference is continually made to Whyte not profiting from the transfer of his shares. At no point have any of them mention his position of strength which will still have to be dealt with.

Therefore, the second question I ask myself is, why is Whyte now going to walk away ( they don't do walking away though do they?) with his tail between his legs and a position of morality? Of course he's not. He's waiting to get his pay off!

[caleyboy]

TBH I'm sick fing fed up with all this s..te! I wonder what would have happened if it was US?

[+DoofersDad]

TBH I'm sick fing fed up with all this s..te! I wonder what would have happened if it was US?

I don't.

[lizi]

When will this all end? Please, soon. I am so sick of Rangers, rangers, money, etc etc. Scroungers, cheats, the lot of them. Whatever is the end result, no-one will be pleased - the Rangers fans, the SPL (real b.mmers who cannot make a decision), the SFL (make Rangers go to the 3rd Div- wow)(even I might go to Elgin if I was not able to go to support ICT on that date), if it was you or I who owed so much money (or even £100) to the tax man, would we be allowed to run up such a debt? Never. I have gone to Ibrox but dislike the atmosphere, intensely. This won't change, no matter the outcome. The loser is football, integrity, the lot. This whole scenario has long outlasted everyone's patience - please - .........

[Gabby]

Please can it be over?

Not by a long long way!............be patient comeuppance is still on the cards!

If they get this CVA, then they will get away with it.

End of the day, HMRC will have to accept CVA because they risk not getting a penny if the Old Co is liquidated.

HMRC do not have to accept the offer, and I am willing to bet they won't accept it.

[CaleyD]

They would probably stand to get more from Liquidation....especially if the Duff & Phelps valuation of assets is accurate and given the pittance the company is being sold for..

Even if a CVA is agreed, it's not a given that the assets could be moved out to protect them from any fall-out from the Big Tax Case (which is what I suspect might happen if the CVA route is succesful). HMRC could, given the state of the business and the likelihood of a second insolvency event, seek to have the assets of the company frozen the minute it exits administration.

[+bughtmaster]

The message going out to the world is that Scottish football is corrupt..........This must be put right.

(I was going to say sorted but someone might take it the wrong way)

[Kirishima]

Moss growing on corrugated iron stands, half-empty stadia, pigsty-esque pitches, debt ridden clubs at (almost) every turn, Champions a 50/50 decision guaranteed, haven't produced a world-class footballer since Dalglish, transfer fees a virtual pipe dream for 10 out of 12 clubs, no interest from any other country whatsoever, and clubs that have just said they are babes in the arms of the O.F.

Is Rupert Murdoch a philanthropist after all? Can't believe he'd sign off on the SPL.

[Ten4]

Hey, Scottish football would probably have been even more boring without something like this.

At the beginning of the season it was Lennon abuse & his team struggling.

Last year it was the referees strike.

The year before the SPL had to do without ICT !!!

What or who will it be next season? Probably SPL moves to a top 14 to save rangers from relegation!

[Alex MacLeod]

Hey, Scottish football would probably have been even more boring without something like this.

At the beginning of the season it was Lennon abuse & his team struggling.

Last year it was the referees strike.

The year before the SPL had to do without ICT !!!

What or who will it be next season? Probably SPL moves to a top 14 to save rangers from relegation!

Two highland teams in European competition

[+Fraz]

Hey, Scottish football would probably have been even more boring without something like this.

At the beginning of the season it was Lennon abuse & his team struggling.

Last year it was the referees strike.

The year before the SPL had to do without ICT !!!

What or who will it be next season? Probably SPL moves to a top 14 to save rangers from relegation!

Two highland teams in European competition

So long as we're Champions League and they are in the Europa! :-P

[ICTRoughi]

SFA reject Rangers' appeal however they are allowed to extend current contracts.

[CaleyD]

Glad the SFA had the nads to stick by the original decision.

The biggest fear for Rangers now, especially if they complete a CVA (which makes less sense with each passing day) is that if they've been handed a 12 month player transfer suspension for 10 months of not paying taxes etc, then what are they going to be handed for over a decade of doing the same if/when they lose the appeal on the Big Tax Case!!!

The SPL should now be asking the question "Can Rangers give guarantees that they can fulfil all fixtures next season?" and doing as was done by the SFL with Livingston and asking for a financial commitment by way of a large deposit from the new buyers. A sum equivalent to away receipts for all their games plus the cost of whatever financial penalties may be suffered from TV income should they fail to complete the season should just about cover it.

[old caley girl]

If Rangers were to challenge this on the grounds that this punishment was not available to the tribunal should the be careful what they wish for? ie the panel felt the max fine allowed was not a sufficient punishment and the other punishment considered was expulsion. Therefore could the punishment be increasesd by the sporting arbitration court or uefa?

[CaleyD]

I'm not sure that the CAS or FIFA (I believe it goes to them at next level as opposed to UEFA) can increase the punishment.

I believe they only have the power to reduce the punishment (if it is being appealed on the grounds of being too harsh) or if, as Rangers are claiming, the punishment was not open to them then it they would pass it back to the SFA and ask them to review it and issue a punishment that is within their remit....at that point the SFA could decide that the only option available to them which applies sufficient punishment is suspension or expulsion.

So yeah, it could very well turn out to be a case of "Careful what you wish for".

The biggest problem for Rangers is that they do not have the time to mess around with such appeals. If Rangers plan is to appeal so that the decision is set aside until it can be heard, then I think they are in for a bit of a shock. I believe that unlike other appeals, an appeal to the CAS does not set aside the standing decision whilst in hearing or waiting to be heard.

The other option, and the one I think Rangers will follow (for speeds sake if nothing else), will be to take it to the Civil Courts....but again, I believe the only decision they would get there is one on whether or not the Transfer Embargo falls within the Associations rules....if not, it then goes back to the SFA and again they face a "Careful what you wish for" scenario.

Whatever way they play it, there's not a court or appeals panel/process in the world that is going to say "Rangers should not be punished".

If I was a betting man, I would wager that Green & Co will come to the above realisation sooner or later and walk away before they have to cough up the millions.

[ICTRoughi]

Couple of interesting quotes from Mr Green there.

Shepherd and McDonald among 20 potential investors #RFC

Green: no chance of Rangers being kicked out of SPL because it would mean 5 or 6 others going bust #RFC

Green has met with Whyte three times. Documents have been signed; Whyte is now out of the picture whatever happens #RFC

Green: in 5 years time, RFC more financially secure than Celtic (and winning SPL consistently) #RFC

Also in the meeting, Green confirmed '5 or 6' investors already with a pot currently 'over £20m' #RFC

To confirm: Ticketus deal has been terminated. Now owe them money, not tickets.

[CaleyD]

What always surprises me with these things is that the new buyers can sit there and say "We've got a pot of £20+ Million" yet when it comes to coughing up to Creditors there's only a fraction of that offered.

If I was a Creditor I would be playing hard ball and not accepting anything like 3p in the £ and demanding the come good with a bit more of the war chest for them before the embark on paying players over the odds.

At the very least they should be paying out full whack on the value of the companies assets.

[MarkD]

The problem for creditors though is that there isn't really any value to the company's assets. It's a loss making business and there isn't a large queue of people out there willing to pay large amounts of money for it. In fact the £20m is exactly the point - the new owners are saying we'll commit this to make the business viable. Pretty much every football club is the same, it's a loss making business that requires a sugar daddy to put cash into to keep going. Creditors can object but ultimately the liquidation value is zero. And I think that includes the big tax case, after a company comes out of administration, a creditor can't go back for another bite on pre-existing liabilities, whether their quantum was known exactly or not.

[Alex MacLeod]

Very long-winded but nevertheless worth a read

http://wingsland.podgamer.com/why-scotland-doesnt-need-rangers/

[Gabby]

Here comes Summer Football.

Newco won't be ready for next season so what's the bet the season is delayed to accommodate Summer Football and Govan Rangers?

[Charles Bannerman]

Very long-winded but nevertheless worth a read

http://wingsland.pod...t-need-rangers/

Pretty unremarkable I thought. Just a straightforward case of a sad Cybernat taking time out from spamming various newspapers' "Independence Yes or No" polls so he can add to his wish list of Union inclined organisations he would like to see the back of.

In fact I would suggest that this kind of response on that kind of forum is about as predictable as a Flute Band playing The Sash!

Edited May 21, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[PullMyFinger]

Wholly factual, feasible and relevant I thought. Then again, I'm a cybernat too.

[CaleyD]

Here comes Summer Football.

Newco won't be ready for next season so what's the bet the season is delayed to accommodate Summer Football and Govan Rangers?

Of course the NewCo won't be ready for the new season.

So long as they can keep the existing company alive (all be it on Life Support) then the SPL have no means by which to further punish or remove them. Get the new season started and then look to request a transfer of the SPL share and there's less chance of a refusal due to the disruption it would cause.

As I have said already, what the SPL MUST do if that is the case is seek (financial) guarantees that the club can fulfil the season ahead prior to it kicking off. Since reports seem to suggest that having Rangers in the league is worth between £700k & £1 Million to each of the other clubs then I would say putting about £9 Million on deposit with the SPL would suffice.