Silence is golden??

[Harry Chibber]

cc has got 7 games to prove im talking ****e, or its going to be a long long summer for harry, alex etc and anybody else who is sick of reading anti-cc stuff on here!

:024:

[clacher_holiday2]

havent been on ze internet all day harry!

ive never posted knee jerk reactions or 'get it up ye' messages anywhere after poor results and im glad nobodies come on to give any kind of support for your attempt to do exactly that, with a single good one.

im not going to say one game doesnt change a thing because it can, not this one though.  like i said in that quote theres 7 games left this season, the next 6 are far more important.

and anyway, silence is golden, takin the **** smiley...  we drew with the huns 1-1 away at ibrox  :017:  aye am gutted  :015:

[Harry Chibber]

:014:

[clacher_holiday2]

:024:

[Harry Chibber]

After the dunfermline game there was a hive of activity on this site with posters, like you, chomping at the bit for Christie's head on the chopping block. 

This week the team pulls off the performance of the season, against a Rangers team that have been in excellent form of late, we have had about 20-30 posts

So I am taking the silence from you negative besterds as golden!!

You are more happy when the team loses so you have something to complain about... really sums up how pathetic your life must really be

:024: :024: :024: :024: :014: :014: :014: :014: :014: :024: :024: :024: :024: :024: :014: :024: :014:

[clacher_holiday2]

[Guest Bonzo]

So I am taking the silence from you negative besterds as golden!!

You are more happy when the team loses so you have something to complain about... really sums up how pathetic your life must really be

Harold.

I don't believe any of us enjoy seeing our team lose.

It is our love of the team which makes us worry about the capability and status of its Manager.

I was delighted with Saturday's performance - particularly on how well the defence held together in the absence of Dods.

However, it does nothing to alleviate my fears for CCs potential to attract worthwhile signings in the Summer.

Oh, yes, and while I'm at it ............. my life is not pathetic. You really must do something about the insecurity which makes you abuse those with differing views from your own. Have you ever considered counselling?

[Johnboy]

Bonzo : If Hairy Chibber has abused you - you'll be the one that needs counselling...!!    :010:

[Guest Suspicious Mind]

So I am taking the silence from you negative besterds as golden!!

You are more happy when the team loses so you have something to complain about... really sums up how pathetic your life must really be

Harold.

I don't believe any of us enjoy seeing our team lose.

It is our love of the team which makes us worry about the capability and status of its Manager.

I was delighted with Saturday's performance - particularly on how well the defence held together in the absence of Dods.

However, it does nothing to alleviate my fears for CCs potential to attract worthwhile signings in the Summer.

Oh, yes, and while I'm at it ............. my life is not pathetic. You really must do something about the insecurity which makes you abuse those with differing views from your own. Have you ever considered counselling?

Bonzo

Don't want to speak for Harry, but I sense he shares a view pretty similar to mine .

Put simply:

Where do you go when the team performs well?

Where's the praise from you when CC makes a good call?

Where' s the thread you started calling for CC's contract extension?

I could go on.

The reality is, for you to expect anyone to listen to you in a constructive manner, your thoughts should look at both sides of any case or either side of the pancake etc. When you only see black you lose any credibility you seek.

No doubt, the next time CC gets it wrong, the team under perform, we get a doing or some other major incident the gives you the drive to feel the need to share your vast knowledge with the rest of us, the gloom will return. In the meantime, try to enjoy the pleasure of being a supporter and the joy it brings.

PS. I do actually believe you enjoy it when the team get's beat!

[CaleyD]

:022:

[Harry Chibber]

Don't want to speak for Harry

please do...

[DaveDargo]

This type of thread is why people don't like this site anymore. 

[EWS]

This type of thread is why people don't like this site anymore. 

I agree.  It seems that criticism isn't allowed here.

[davieB]

This type of thread is why people don't like this site anymore. 

Spot on :025:

[CaleyD]

You can't win eh?

People want freedom to say what they like, but then want threads removed when people do just that!!!

[EWS]

This thread should be moderated because it doesn't acheive anything.  All it is is a dig at people who have the personal belief that CC isn't doing a good job and creates hate towards a section of our support.

It is childish, and isn't what I would want to be promoted on this site.

[Scotty]

This type of thread is why people don't like this site anymore. 

Thats a very sweeping statement ...... let me ask something a little less sweeping and a tad more specific ..... what would you have us do to change that situation ??

To my mind, its a no-win situation ..... if we delete/sanitise all criticism then we get accusations of censorship, burying our heads in the sand or catering to only a small clique of users (trust me, I know all about this after running the site as an official one for 5 years) ..... if we let people say what they want we get comments like yours ..... If we are to stop people from criticising then perhaps we should also delete the praise that is made of the team or the manger so that everything can be bland, non-controversial and we can all sit on the fence ??

Bottom line, as far as I am concerned is that we are now an independent and unofficial fan site that gives people the opportunity to express their views whether positive or negative. We no longer have to sanitise our content as we did in the past and will heap praise on the club when they get it right but we will also keep a close eye on them and question them if we think things are wrong. At the end of the day those involved in running the site are all ICT supporters and we will usually lean towards praise but we are not going to get all hot and bothered when criticism of the club comes along as sometimes it is justified.

Users are free to post their comments and viewpoints (both positive and negative) and you are free to agree, disagree or post your own rebuttal to those comments. We will move posts that we feel are in the wrong place but unless something is wholly inappropriate or against the terms of service users agree to when they sign up then we will not delete them. If that forces you to look for ICT content elsewhere because you 'dont like the site anymore' then so be it.

I actually enjoy reading all of the comments on here whether I agree with them or not. Most of it is no different than what you will hear in a pub before or after a game, and lets face it, in our own minds (especially after a few beers) we can all do a better job at managing, motivating and getting our tactics right than Paterson, Robertson, Brewster & Christie combined !!!

Lets also add a few facts to the mix .....

FACT - The performance against Dunfermline was ATROCIOUS and drew heavy criticism. Overall, much of this criticism was justified. Those who are 'known' as perpetual criticisers were out in force and if you are honest with yourself you probably agreed with at least a portion of what they said ... I know that I did !!

FACT - Charlie Christie made an emotional comment about resigning. This 'rumour' was not started here it was something said in the changing room and leaked from there to the press by one of the players as far as we know. Why did he say it ? Why did a player or players leak it ? This is of course a huge talking point so bound to get people from each end of the spectrum discussing it from different viewpoints on a site that is provided for fans of the club to discuss the club. Would you rather send a letter to the editor of the newspaper ?

FACT - The performance against Rangers was EXCELLENT and should draw heavy praise. Whether you are a fan of CC or not there can be no doubt that he had a hard decision to make when Dods was sent off and although obvious that Caff would have to come on it was perhaps not so obvious to him as to who to sacrifice. As some have said, the obvious choice is a striker but would we have stood a chance of scoring with only one striker ? At the end of the day he didnt make a rash substitution, he took a few minutes to weigh up his options and then took off Markus and this proved to be a good move. He would have got slagged if it backfired, but it didnt and all credit to both CC and the team for that performance.

FACT - Our record against the 'big' teams is pretty impressive - undefeated against both Rangers and Aberdeen this season for example but our record against the 'smaller' teams is not so good and I actually agree with Clacher that the next 7 are more important than the Rangers game. If we are to stay in the SPL for seasons to come then we need to regularly win games against the likes of Dunfermline, St Mirren, Falkirk, Dundee Utd, Motherwell who are our compatriots in the bottom six and also get better results against the non-OF teams in the top six. If we can do it against Rangers and Celtic then there is no reason why we should be incapable of doing it against any other team.

Does this make me one of the anti-CC crowd or negative ?? some might think so .... but personally, I dont think it does. I am 100% behind CC and think he will 'grow' into the role of manager in much the same way that JR or CB will continue to grow as managers. I think he has done a **** of a lot correctly but I also concede that he has made mistakes - a human failing not a CC failing. Since we went unofficial again I feel I have been able to dish out praise where its due but also make criticisms where they were due so from that point of view I actually think the site is better .......

[EWS]

Scotty, in my view the point isn't about whether people are anti-cc or not, but the fact that this is a not so sly dig at some of our other members.  A thread like this re-inforces a clique that the site has developed in recent times.  I missed the mass migration away from here, so I can't comment, but I have had my level of activity reduced here because of the reactions of some people when others post criticism of Charlie Christie and the club - it has seemed at times (to me anyway) that criticism of CC = lack of support for the club, and the numerous comments of 'what do you know, you aren't the manager' and 'why didn't Grassa come looking to you when we needed a new manager' isn't helping things at all.

In my experience, there is a big difference between actively moderating a site and censoring what people say - and a little bit of moderation, out with moving topics that are in the wrong place, is needed desperately here.  A thread like this should never have been allowed to develop in my opinion, and if it had appeared on a forum on which I was moderating, a discreet word in the ear of the poster, and a removal to the dungeon would have been the choice I would have made.

Debate and discussion is good, but when it comes down to sly digs, 'fishing trips' or what ever rubbish you want to call it, then I would rather that I posted my opinions elsewhere - and by the looks of it, others are doing the same.

[Libero]

Criticism should not be censored, but when a healthy debate degenerates into name calling and/or threads emerging to mock or call into question views then censorship should come into force.

My interpretation of an un-official club site would be a place where fans, can log onto to discuss, debate or air their own views without being slated or mocked. Recently i have noticed any healthy criticism being slated and anyone who dares to speak against the consensus being targeted for doing so. We are all entitled to our own opinion and this site should not allow people to feel apprehensive about speaking out against the norm.

I Know of quite a few people who now do not visit this site purely for the fact that they do not feel they can speak freely without being slated for doing so.

[Scotty]

EWS / Libero

Fair comments. noted.

[maimie]

i'm all for freedom of speech.

people should have the right to say what they want, when they want, about whom they want unless it degenerates into some of the stuff we've had in the past and when that happens I have faith that the moderators on the board to deal with it appropriately.

we all (well most of us) pay money week in week out to watch the team.  And so what if we're not a footy manager in real life.  We all have an opinion and some of the best have been heard on the terraces over the years.

it does seem that lately you have not been allowed to express your opinion without coming in for some pretty harsh criticism from the opposition (what ever side you are on) but as has been said before if you don't like what someone has to say you can ignore them either by pushing the button or by not reading or responding to their posts.

it has certainly been mentioned that lately there are fewer posters on the site which is a real shame cos when we moved to 'unofficial' it was one of the better sites around.

as for fishing trips - i remember the days when me and caleyfifer would spend a lovely evening doing a bit of fishing.....  Lol! :001: :004:

[CaleyD]

If someone feels strongly enough about an issue then they will post it regardless of what reaction they feel they will get.  In any walk of life if you have a view which goes against the consensus then you are going to come up against resistance in many forms.  Some will put a structured argument against your case and some will "slate" you for your opinion - It's your decision who you wish to credit with a response and who you wish to ignore. 

Clacher could have chosen to ignore Harry's jibe and the thread would have quickly dropped into obscurity, but he chose to respond.  Others could have chosen to have left them too it, but wanted to throw in their tuppence worth....it's all about choice and nobody is forcing anyone to read or respond to anyone else's remarks or comments.

"You can't please all the people all the time" - And we would be pulling our hair out and causing more problems than we would ever solve by trying.

The site has changed since it went unofficial and some may not like it, but the facts show that far more people do as viewing and posting figures have been on an upward trend for the last 10 months - so we must be getting something right!!!

As with any comment made about the running of the site it will be discussed, but the users have just as much responsibility and power to make the forum what they want it to be as the Admin.....perhaps the next "jibe" that's made would be best ignored by those it is aimed at.....just a thought.

[maimie]

Scotty, CD and the rest of the mods you do a thankless job a lot of the time but hey.... :025: :025: :025: :-*

was trying to get a chance to chat on saturday CD but was distracted.... :004:

[Scotty]

it does seem that lately you have not been allowed to express your opinion without coming in for some pretty harsh criticism from the opposition (what ever side you are on)

what ever side you are on .... and that is the crux of the problem.  :017:

At the end of the day, I think we are all on the same side, or we should be as ICT supporters. However sometimes those who hold beliefs at either end of this spectrum clash and rather than having a reasoned debate it degenerates into slaggings and both 'sides' are as guilty as each other.

We as administrators/moderators are caught in the middle. We dont want to 'censor' reasoned debate because we were accused of this on an almost daily basis when the site was official but by the same token we dont want people to feel they cant post without being taken to task for their opinions (regardless of what end of the spectrum they come from). so what are we to do .......

I think myself and CaleyD maybe need to have a look at the 'posting rules' and see if there is a need to clarify some of them. We also need to ensure that they are applied fairly so that a 'positive poster' abusing a 'negative poster' is dealt with in the same way as the reverse scenario. It might hurt a few people, and we might lose some if the rules are tightened up but in the long run it may make for a better forum where verbal abuse is the exception rather than the norm.

[clacher_holiday2]

Clacher could have chosen to ignore Harry's jibe and the thread would have quickly dropped into obscurity, but he chose to respond.  Others could have chosen to have left them too it, but wanted to throw in their tuppence worth....it's all about choice and nobody is forcing anyone to read or respond to anyone else's remarks or comments.

to be fair to myself i did reply to harrys first post that said nothing but not the one where he tore off on a personal attack about how pathetic my/others life is.

im glad the topic has been allowed to develop, allows us all to know the psyche of those on either side of the debates that circulate through the season and thus allows everybody to know which posters they should give credence to and those who should be ignored.

as has been said harry is being petty (not for the first time recently).  its ok to react strongly to others having a different opinion to your own as it shows a bit of passion and belief but when comments degrade into sweeping generalisations about other posters entire lives then theres a point reached where the original poster just makes themselves look an insecure, obsessed arse.  it isnt the first time people on here have taken things to heart and i hope it wont be the last, making idiots of themselves online is important to help all of us remmeber that this site, its conflicting relationshps amd opinions are ultimatley only because we like a sport.

as much as im convinced harry was just trying to wind me/others up its the language used that proves he needs to take a break from here, possibly even foget about ict until next season and take time to ask exactly why hes really here and why he cares so passionatly for the success of our current manager.  if the answer is because people like me are still questioning the appointment then its time to step back and turn the feckin computer off and find a more positive outlet for his emotions!

imagine this was a music website, imagine we are all a group of take that fans, imagine that for the past year me+a few others had been critising mark owens abilty or performances on stage (  :015: at this btw ) and harry was one of the leading voices in the pro mark owen group.  imagine a mark fan saying this after the first good gig he'd played in months ->

""You are more happy when the team loses so you have something to complain about... really sums up how pathetic your life must really be""

you would seriously have to worry about what relationship or connection to mark owen theyve constructed which makes posters react so bitterly or show a completle lack of objectivity on the wider band or their place in the music industry.  thats how i view chibber and alex especially, others who support cc slightly less militaristically get a **** of alot more respect