Disillusioned Or Not? (merged)

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well I took a couple of weeks out in order to calm down from the debacle of last season and I truly had said to myself that I had to be positive and look forward to a brief voyage in the SFL and a quick return to the waters of the SPL. But I am suddenly fearing that little has changed - the communication from the club is appalling; we should be getting more positivity and updates in regard to the contracts and potential signings; we sign a youngster from Leicester and we give the Builder a feckin accolade; we keep faith in some muppets whose capabilities most have questioned in the last year; we appear to have maintained the backroom staffing and the wage bills; we have limited ourselves to wee trips around the North of Scotland for our pre season - I will stop there.

I fully understand that there has to be financial savings and more savvy use of the finances (but we all know why we are in the position that we are in !!) and we are not going to attract or keep some of our bigger names.

I am in dire need of some encouraging news - am I alone ?

I am afraid that for the second time ever - the first being in Nov/Dec 08 - I AM STRUGGLING TO BELIEVE.

[Guest birdog]

Okay IHE, what do we do about it? I feel the same as yourself but I am at a loss to what can be done. Campaigning to get rid of Brewster was reletively easy for us disillusioned fans, he managed to do the hard work on our behalf.

What are the aims of this crusade you have set yourself in your recent posts? To gain a change in the BoD? I am not sure that is viable or possible, convince me! To gain more direct and open communication from within the club? I am all for this but, again, I am not sure how we'd achieve it. Or do you have some other agenda?

Let us know your thoughts on where we should be headed and how to achieve it, you seem to have set yourself up as the leader of your crusade for change but all you give to your disciples are posts intended to stir up bad feeling. How about some straight forward talking, what do you expect from us?

[Glebeict]

You have to wonder! I thought that when all those young players were let go a few days after the loss to Falkirk,

that finally someone was taking action. Perhaps not the best action but action . I mean we had to wait months

for action on Brewster .

Now I am not sure , it seems little has changed.

As for the preseason games , not sure the opposition will get the team ready for the season.

Will they take 4 or 5 games into the schedule to get competitve?

[Kirishima]

To be blunt, there are a few people who would like to see some people in executive management resign. Specifically, Graeme Bennett and Mike Smith. There are others who believe that is counter-productive.

The fact is, they are on massive salary packages that the club can ill afford. Yes, this line of reason may be seen as negative, but it is not, it is completely logical, natural and understandable. Whether it is the correct course of action is another matter.

Personally, I think that the club could do without both. But it's a hot topic so I won't be arguing its merits.

IHE: take a look at British Airways, they are asking employees to work for free, and the Chief Exec has graciously forfeited his monthly paypacket, all 60k of it. Face it, we live in a world where the pursuit of money is matched only be the pursuit for more of the same. Our attachment to posessions is our ultimate flaw.

[Georgeios]

I?m feeling that at this moment in time the Board and Staff are busy reorganising everything with budget cuts, contract offers being tabled, and until they have either been accepted or rejected they can not move on, if ICT made a big deal about players we are chasing then other teams in the 1st Div could swoop in ahead of us.

TB is away doing courses just now, and I hope doing lots of tactical plays and the likes, Foran for me as I?ve spouted off about will in my eyes be the hinch pin to weather or not TB sees his future with us but that?s another threads rants..

As for the current team we have.. I am a wee bit unsure off, yes we have the back bone of the team we came up with but they are all 5 years older now.. we punted out ?in my view? our young up and comers. I feel the 1st Div is not a place for the ageing side, We have some young Proven talent with Roon and kind of but not quit in Duff and the likes, We have unproven young talents, Cox and the U19?s but is it enough to hold up our aging back bone. Heres hoping its all very Last minute.com and it all comes together with some ding dong local friendlys and they show us how the teams coming out to play.

I?ve taken the plunge and pledged my loyalties to the club by purchasing my season tickets this year (1st time in a long time I?ve even paid for a ticket but that?s what not being in the spl has cost me) but I don?t mind. Oh and so the kids dont come on windging that I've been free loading, I alway buy new tops and a program... I try to stay away from the pies though....

We will be playing in a Div that has roughly the same wages, budget and in my eyes standard of play, we have more to play for, and lets face it.. We are a club that breaks moulds, so we, I hope and pray do go straight back up, if not as I?ve said I already, we will enjoy the better battles??

I still believe? (In the football at least, and the team)

I'm Excited for playing in the 1st div, (Lets face it a top 6 finish doesnt have much going for it but a winners trophy)

But do I trust?? we will see.

[caleyrule]

Well I took a couple of weeks out in order to calm down from the debacle of last season and I truly had said to myself that I had to be positive and look forward to a brief voyage in the SFL and a quick return to the waters of the SPL. But I am suddenly fearing that little has changed - the communication from the club is appalling; we should be getting more positivity and updates in regard to the contracts and potential signings; we sign a youngster from Leicester and we give the Builder a feckin accolade; we keep faith in some muppets whose capabilities most have questioned in the last year; we appear to have maintained the backroom staffing and the wage bills; we have limited ourselves to wee trips around the North of Scotland for our pre season - I will stop there.

I fully understand that there has to be financial savings and more savvy use of the finances (but we all know why we are in the position that we are in !!) and we are not going to attract or keep some of our bigger names.

I am in dire need of some encouraging news - am I alone ?

I am afraid that for the second time ever - the first being in Nov/Dec 08 - I AM STRUGGLING TO BELIEVE.

The communication from the club is not appalling, its simply that they have nothing to tell us they dont know if players or going to sign new contracts or not

And what wrong with pre season friendlies in the North and North East of Scotland anyway

They club gave encouraging news by signing Lee Cox and everyone wasnt bothered by it and everyone is wanting huge signings which we cannot afford

Many people believed that we would go up straight away but now fans are now more realistically the true meaning of relegation, it aint going to be easy but fans grumping about it for the whole season and not getting behind the team will not help anyone

[Yngwie]

I've never thought about this before, but what is the word for someone who is not disillusioned? Illusioned?

[Guest birdog]

I've never thought about this before, but what is the word for someone who is not disillusioned? Illusioned?

Enchanted?

[Heilandee]

Undisillusioned mebbes?

Or reillusioned if you'd been dissilusioned but weren't now :026:

Edited June 16, 2009 by Heilandee

[caley100]

Like a Dundee supporter eh?

[Scotty]

the communication from the club is appalling; we should be getting more positivity and updates in regard to the contracts and potential signings; we sign a youngster from Leicester and we give the Builder a feckin accolade; we keep faith in some muppets whose capabilities most have questioned in the last year; we appear to have maintained the backroom staffing and the wage bills; we have limited ourselves to wee trips around the North of Scotland for our pre season - I will stop there.

As I posted in another thread .........

If you read the various comments on here or in the media or hear snippets of stories going around, it is clear that the club are slap bang in the middle of a "consultation process" which will likely result in staffing reductions all over the place. We have had various threads about this surface in the last few days with mention of certain high profile or visible positions (U19 team and coaches for example) but the truth of the matter is that this is going on all over the stadium.

Having gone through a consultation process myself a good few years ago where a group of us were told that half of us were not going to make it, I am glad that the club are saying very little about this publicly. I actually support them in making no direct (public) comment about any individuals until the process is over as that is the only professional way to handle things. Some might think it "appalling" but I am sorry, you dont comment on such a thing until it is done.

I am not sure who on here has been through such a process, but I would guess a fair few. For those that have not, I can assure you it is a painful and horrible process for all concerned as you are dealing with people's livelihoods, their ability to pay mortgages etc and it is a process that must remain internal until it is finalised. Whatever we think right now is immaterial, it is the club staff who are important and we are secondary.

I know we are nosey to know what is going on or what has gone on already or desperate to get that juicy bit of gossip posted, but I would hope that those of us who have had any dealings with the staff at the stadium would respect the fact that they must all be worried right now and inaccurate or insensitive comments on a public message board will not do anything to help.

Once the process is complete, then it is definitely time to look for a full and frank statement from the club regarding what they have had to do to re-organise, what changes they have made to the staffing structure at the stadium, and how it affects everything else including the playing budget. Only then will we be in a position to fully comment on whether we agree with those changes.

To be blunt, there are a few people who would like to see some people in executive management resign. Specifically, Graeme Bennett and Mike Smith. There are others who believe that is counter-productive. The fact is, they are on massive salary packages that the club can ill afford. Yes, this line of reason may be seen as negative, but it is not, it is completely logical, natural and understandable. Whether it is the correct course of action is another matter. Personally, I think that the club could do without both. But it's a hot topic so I won't be arguing its merits.

I also dont think it is fair to name specific individuals either - if the consultation process is fair, everyone will have a cost/benefit analysis done on their position and that is something already talked about on a thread a few weeks ago with regards to those individuals as well as another person ! If the analysis shows the position is untenable or that it requires a "wage adjustment" in line with our new Div1 status then hopefully that is reflected .... if it is not, THEN we can bitch and moan ... but lets just wait for the process before we jump to conclusions !

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Birdog - Scotty et al.

You can all gloss this but - I am losing all faith in the peeple that are running the club that I love - IMHO they should have been kicked out many moons ago.

:angry:

This all started with the Marius Niculae saga - The disgraceful manner :angry: :angry: in the treatment of CC - the ridiculous appointment of Brewster and Thompson - the unbelievable support of those two - the manner in which certain players will treated - feck it Etc, etc,etc

Our management is protected old school and will kill this club. It is fair to name individuals as they are responsible but are avoiding the responsibility.

Let me be totally personal - Mike Smith is an overpaid duffer and has no idea about ICT - he simply needs booting out - Grasser is a lovely lad but out of his depth, always has been - Sutherland is a control freak.

Some supporters just continue to be jocular and have a laff - It is way beyond the laffing stage

Birdog - what can we do about it - FECK ALL. Compaigning to get rid of Brew wasnt easy - it took 12 months and we had to take off our shoes and feckin wave them.

Scotty - Consultation / Boardroom Banter - A "frank" statement from the club - Yer having a laff.

feck this forum - This is so feckin defeatist and supportive it is unreal

[Scotty]

not defeatist and supportive IHE .... and not inactive either .... but I like to gather my facts and do my research before slinging out accusations ..... we are ALL hurting right now and much of what you say does make sense. I just cant agree with it all.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

So do I Scotty - from a lot of resources and contacts - I am usually reluctant to reveal but they are all fearful of the future - we are in a state of potential crisis. Niculae is bleeding us dry but the wages are being cut at the bottom of the tree and kept at the top !!!

[Scotty]

wages are being cut at the bottom of the tree and kept at the top !!!

check your sources again. I think you might find that in the end costs will be cut left to right, top to bottom, root and branch .......

Trust me, I share your concerns, even from this distance, and I will be as loud as you if my info doesnt pan out, but we have to hang on for a short time for the process to reach its conclusion before dissecting the contents of that process.

[caleyrule]

feck this forum - This is so feckin defeatist and supportive it is unreal

But yet u are still posting on it

Also, the club is not in a state of crisis the club have noted the problem with niculae and if you sources were that correct they would have notified you that the club has already set aside ?250,000 incase the club loses its case

And, wages are being cut all across the club and EVERYONE at the club including grassa and the lot have them have all taken a pay cut

[CaleyD]

From what I've been hearing I'm more inclined towards IHE's understanding, although it is tough to know for sure when everything seems to be happening under a veil of total chaos.

We can all sit here and argue it around in circles among ourselves and get nowhere, and that's probably a scenario that many are quite happy with as it removes the focus from where it should be, and that's the well being of our club.

How many times have we sat here and said "let's just wait and see what comes of things"? We did it with the CC situation, we did it with the Marius situation, we did it whilst the directors and shareholders sold the stadium from under our nose, we did it whilst Brewster was re-appointed against the will of the majority, and then many continued to do it whilst he dragged the club beyond saving.

If there's nothing to hide, if things are being done openly and honestly and by the book then the club should have nothing to hide and they should fear no questions. If there's bad news then let us have it, let us work with the club to get through things instead of this constant feeling that we have to work against them in order to get even the slightest hint of what's going on.

[Johnboy]

Just a reminder...

This is a statement the Supporters Trust communicated to the board way back in January...

"In view of the current position of the football club, reflected in our current league placing and recent poor performances, we urge the board of the football club to, as much as possible, make clear to supporters in the next week its strategy to ensure that Inverness Caledonian Thistle retains its place in the SPL.

In addition, we ask that the club urgently investigates how they can better communicate with the fans, retail merchanndise to the fans and generally make the matchday experience a more enjoyable one.

We remain fully behind the ICT team at this time and urge all fans to do the same".

Although Brewster was sacked a couple of weeks after that meeting, it is fair to say the communication issue has never been addressed.

That is one issue among several that really sticks in the craw.

[Guest birdog]

Johndo you took a couple of weeks to take stock of what is happening, I am still taking stock. I have absolutely no idea of how a football club is run, I can see how a team performs and how bad, or good, a management (playing) team are working and that is why I was so vocal about Brewster. All I can go on about the directorship of this club is what I read here and in the papers. I am sorry Johndo some of what you have posted here makes absolute sense but you are well known for your wind ups and stirring and as I have no way of verifying anything you say I do not know what is true and what is wind up. I also have no idea what your agenda is, my agenda is simple, I love ICT they have given me many good times and I only want to see the best from them. You are probably correct in what you say about Mike Smith, Grasser and DS but I am not closely enough linked to form that opinion, yet. I will quite happily follow you in your campaign IF you can convince me that your agenda is similar to mine and you can show me, without the mind games and psychbabble, that what you are saying is true.

I do beleive that you are genuinely desperate for a better run club, we all are, but how? Who will take over if the muppets are over thrown? I asked you how before and all you give is "what can we do about it - FECK ALL" I spent hours on this site campaigning against Brewster when even you were ready to give him a chance, I am tired of hating the club I love, I am tired of fighting, I just want to enjoy the SFL again, like I did before.

If I think that you can steer us in the correct direction I WILL help but don't try to stir us up then sit back and watch, don't come here slagging the forum when your beef is not with us, aim your frustrations at those who deserve it and stop the wind ups, those are what discredit an otherwise intelligent man.

[Scotty]

If there's nothing to hide, if things are being done openly and honestly and by the book then the club should have nothing to hide and they should fear no questions. If there's bad news then let us have it, let us work with the club to get through things instead of this constant feeling that we have to work against them in order to get even the slightest hint of what's going on.

I agree with most of this - tell us like it is and let us take it on the chin. make the hard decisions so that forthcoming ones are easier but do so with honesty and transparency. However, as I have said and said again, I support the club in not going public until the consultation process is completed. I am not a club employee so I am not party to what stage that is at, but a process like that is not something that can or should be dragged out so we cannot be talking months, in fact, if it has been ongoing since the end of the season, I would hope/expect a statement may be forthcoming rather quickly.

[L_G]

If there's nothing to hide, if things are being done openly and honestly and by the book then the club should have nothing to hide and they should fear no questions. If there's bad news then let us have it, let us work with the club to get through things instead of this constant feeling that we have to work against them in order to get even the slightest hint of what's going on.

I agree with most of this - tell us like it is and let us take it on the chin. make the hard decisions so that forthcoming ones are easier but do so with honesty and transparency. However, as I have said and said again, I support the club in not going public until the consultation process is completed. I am not a club employee so I am not party to what stage that is at, but a process like that is not something that can or should be dragged out so we cannot be talking months, in fact, if it has been ongoing since the end of the season, I would hope/expect a statement may be forthcoming rather quickly.

First of all, can I just say that I have avoided posting very much about the current situation. This is mainly because people read my posts as the views of the Supporters' Trust. Let me assure you that these are my thoughts and my thoughts only.

I agree with a lot of comments on this thread, but as for not going public!! George Fraser was interviewed on TV the week following relegation and announced there would be redundancies (no surprise there). The only problem was, as far as I'm aware, that the staff at that time were not given formal notice of pending redundancies and hearing it on the local news was quite unprofessional in my opinion. From what I have seen/heard, there would seem to be very little in the way of a process. I can't believe that a cost/benefit analysis would have identified the people who have gone already and there are some staff still on notice and some deemed 'safe'. If I'm honest I think that many of the staff who have gone and even some who are still currently employed would have a very strong case at a tribunal.

Terry Butcher was so passionate when he spoke at the Ball, I did believe that we were going to have a good go at promotion next season. I have to say that I'm with IHE and now feel quite disillusioned. I hope that TB doesn't feel the same when he returns from his coaching course.

[CaleyD]

I think that's part of what worries me Scotty. It's not like we were relegated last weekend, it was a very real possibility since last Christmas and the plans should have been in place to allow the club to almost immediately switch into "Div 1" mode. If we're honest, then it's a plan that should have been in place the moment we were promoted and a plan that every SPL club should have on the shelf.

The fact that this doesn't appear to be the case and we're just scrambling around now trying to work out where the cuts can and should be made is, IMO, unacceptable. Were the Board so arrogant that they thought we were going to avoid relegation and just never bothered, or was it just pure negligence? I can think of no good reason why things should be as they are.

As the saying goes....."Fail to Prepare - Prepare to Fail"

All we've had from the club is that they plan to bounce right back...how they could have arrived at that even being a possibility when nothing else was/is in place is beyond me and my fear now is that in order to save face and try and realise that promise then the Board will risk the club even further.

I was at the Red and Blue Ball, I listened to Terry Butcher speak from the heart about his desire to bring ICT straight back up and I believe that he, as the Manager, will not accept anything less than the effort that is required to give us the best possible chance of that. The trouble is, I just can't see where he's going to get the money, players, support (coaching staff etc) to allow him to achieve that and he's been fed as much false hope as the rest of us have been getting. How is he going to react when that penny drops with him? How are the majority of fans going to react when that penny drops with them?

Now, more than ever, the club need the fans onside and they are doing nothing....and I mean absolutely nothing, to achieve even that.

[Glebeict]

Right on Caley D . They should have started planing for this mess last Christmas. Not very professional to react after

the fact.

[Mike]

Excuse my ignorance but what is the qualifications/requirements for someone to be on the BoD? I take it they don't get paid?

[tokelyisvictorious]

Excuse my ignorance but what is the qualifications/requirements for someone to be on the BoD? I take it they don't get paid?

I believe they get paid substantial sums of money.

Until the season begins and I can see the full extent of the teams capabilties and whether we can mount a challenge, I won't be making any judgements on how the club is being run.

At the moment is does seem like we are falling behind in the transfer market, watching good players go to QOS and Dunfermline, players we should be sticking in our beaks and grabbing.

However despite some positivity from myself i still feel ICT are just around the corner from major change and dare i say it, revolution. Looking into my crystal ball, i foresee a community operative running ICT within a few years, headed by prominent fans of the club willing to do the work and share the work for relatively nothing. Or is that just being too pie in the sky.