Gary McKinnon

[Johnboy]

Anyone been following this case, See here which has been largely overshadowed on the news programmes by the death of Bobby Robson...

To my way of thinking all he was guilty of was exposing how insecure the US Military's computer network was.

Many of the files he is alleged to have hacked into were protected by nothing more than default passwords.

Thoughts?

[CaleyD]

He broke the law and should suffer the consequences.

The "they made it easy" excuse doesn't cut it for me....using that line of thinking it would be ok to mug old people based on the argument that it was easy to do....or to lift stuff from people's gardens because it wasn't bolted down....or to rob a house because the owner had forgotten to lock the door.

[Johnboy]

He broke the law and should suffer the consequences.

The "they made it easy" excuse doesn't cut it for me....using that line of thinking it would be ok to mug old people based on the argument that it was easy to do....or to lift stuff from people's gardens because it wasn't bolted down....or to rob a house because the owner had forgotten to lock the door.

So you wouldn't shed any tears for him if he was sentenced to 60 years in a US State Penitentiary?

He didn't even profit in any way from his so called crimes...

He even left messages for them pointing out just how insecure their network was....

If they had had any sense they might have considered offering him a job.

[CaleyD]

Had he broken in to your home and left you wee notes on the fridge telling you how easy it was, would you be happy to laugh it off and see him go free?

[Kind of Blue]

He broke the law and should suffer the consequences.

The "they made it easy" excuse doesn't cut it for me....using that line of thinking it would be ok to mug old people based on the argument that it was easy to do....or to lift stuff from people's gardens because it wasn't bolted down....or to rob a house because the owner had forgotten to lock the door.

So you wouldn't shed any tears for him if he was sentenced to 60 years in a US State Penitentiary?

He didn't even profit in any way from his so called crimes...

He even left messages for them pointing out just how insecure their network was....

If they had had any sense they might have considered offering him a job.

Ok he didn't profit from his "crimes" but his actions resulted in massive disruption and considerable costs.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

I think the point in this case is how unequal the extradition laws are between the UK and the USA. There is a much more stringent ' onus of proof' required for the UK to extradite someone from the USA than the other way around. In this kid's case it is sufficient for the USA to claim that he caused hundred of thousands of dollars worth of damage to their computers, without any real proof that he did so. Personally, I doubt he caused any damage in monetry terms at all to their computers. In fact he has probably done them a favour in exposing how lax their security was. Maybe they should give him a job!

[Johnboy]

Had he broken in to your home and left you wee notes on the fridge telling you how easy it was, would you be happy to laugh it off and see him go free?

Yes.... as long as he hadn't taken anything out the fridge, I would have laughed it off and thanked him for it.

[CaleyD]

In that case you obviously find my view on this as ridiculous as I find yours....not much point in continuing the conversation.

[Kind of Blue]

I think the point in this case is how unequal the extradition laws are between the UK and the USA. There is a much more stringent ' onus of proof' required for the UK to extradite someone from the USA than the other way around. In this kid's case it is sufficient for the USA to claim that he caused hundred of thousands of dollars worth of damage to their computers, without any real proof that he did so. Personally, I doubt he caused any damage in monetry terms at all to their computers. In fact he has probably done them a favour in exposing how lax their security was. Maybe they should give him a job!

He aint a kid, he's in his forties.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Sure he is a kid !

Wait until he is over 70 and then what would you think he was --a doddery auld fule wha couldnae spell fer toffee?

Jeez! Whit is necxt the noo.

Good on yer Caley D --sort oot they young anes wha dinna ken their place , an' all! <_<

[Johnboy]

I think the point in this case is how unequal the extradition laws are between the UK and the USA. There is a much more stringent ' onus of proof' required for the UK to extradite someone from the USA than the other way around. In this kid's case it is sufficient for the USA to claim that he caused hundred of thousands of dollars worth of damage to their computers, without any real proof that he did so. Personally, I doubt he caused any damage in monetry terms at all to their computers. In fact he has probably done them a favour in exposing how lax their security was. Maybe they should give him a job!

That is the nub of the matter...

David Bunkett, under the watchful eye of Tony Blair, signed that extradition treaty which is so heavily weighted in favour of the USA it beggars belief.

There was a case a few years ago when an inquest into a "friendly fire" incident requested the appearance of 3 US airmen who were involved. The US military/government politely told us to go and get stuffed.

More here

Edited August 1, 2009 by Johnboy

[Johnboy]

In that case you obviously find my view on this as ridiculous as I find yours....not much point in continuing the conversation.

You're absolutely right....

Best to concentrate on more important and vital issues, such as what music the team should run on to the field to!

[CaleyD]

If attacking me personally is the only way you feel you can win the argument....fill yer boots.

Doing the best I can for ICT ranks miles further up on my list of priorities than getting wound up over whether or not the UK government should be trying to protect a criminal....and I make no apology for that.

[Kirishima]

If attacking me personally is the only way you feel you can win the argument....fill yer boots.

Doing the best I can for ICT ranks miles further up on my list of priorities than getting wound up over whether or not the UK government should be trying to protect a criminal....and I make no apology for that.

I think Gary MacKinnon has Aspergers, does that not make it a little different?

Caley D, good on ya for actually walking the walk and doing the PA gig, im only sorry i cant be there to hear it. Its very easy to be an armchair critic, Johnboy, very easy.

[Georgeios]

If someone broke in to my home and when caught said... its because of the way i was, I see to it that after a shooooing he was dealt with by the police and locked up to stop it happening again!! that or give him a job to protect my house... ballz!! Kicking and jail/ followed by soap problems and more kickings!!

[SMEE]

I think Gary MacKinnon has Aspergers, does that not make it a little different?

He does have Aspergers (allegedly) but why should that make one ounce of difference. Aspergers or any other illness is not an excuse to commit crime!

People with Apsergers can be highly intelligent individuals, so should know right from wrong!

[Mick]

I think Gary MacKinnon has Aspergers, does that not make it a little different?

He does have Aspergers (allegedly) but why should that make one ounce of difference. Aspergers or any other illness is not an excuse to commit crime!

People with Apsergers can be highly intelligent individuals, so should know right from wrong!

Being highly intelligent doesn't always guarantee common sense!

I also doubt he caused $700,000 worth of damage, he's made them look like fools and now they plan to make an example of him. But they were lucky it was him rather than some terrorist organization!

[Johnboy]

Unfortunately something I said here couldn't have come out right.

I think CD does ICT and its support a great service with his PA announcements, and long may he continue to do so.

All I was objecting to, on another thread, was the suggestion that the music of Runrig would be in some way appropriate to accompany the team running on to the field. I think that would depress the living daylights out our lads even before a ball was kicked.

I do strongly disagree with CD all the same, if he is of the opinion that Gary McKinnon should be extradited to the US to face trial in that country.

As Mick says the US authorities have been to look like fools in this case, and they are obviously hell bent on making an example of him.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Johnboy

[DAM]

I don't believe for one minute that he caused $700.000 worth of damage. The mighty United States of America was left with egg on its face. Does anyone seriously believe that the UK government was going to stand up to the US, after all our puppets dance to the American tune every time.

[dead_ball_specialist]

I think not enough people appreciate the difference between 'hacking' and 'cracking'.

Hackers explore a system, search for holes in it's security, and often pass on the details of any vulnerablities they find. They aren't necessarily doing any harm, they're actually doing you a favour.

Crackers break into a system with the intent of stealing confidential information or causing damage.

[davie]

Difficult one, and if he does have aspergers, then that's precisely why he wouldn't know right from wrong (or at least have seriously compromised judgement) Google it before you label the guy. More interesting is why the USofA feels the need to pursue this, and to be perceived as being vindictive towards a citizen of your best mates. It's just a loss of face thing.Say no, it'll blow over.