I hope this dont backfire, But.............

[SMEE]

I have long since thought that the KEY to ICT's success over the years was the fact that the team was never tinkered with too much when it came to new faces arriving. And because of that...there was a great deal of camoraderie and team spirit built around the core of the team. BUT, now.....it looks like that ethos has been thrown out the window, with wholesale changes being required for next season. Isnt it something like 14 first team squad players being let go or something? Anyhoo....i think this could rip the heart out of the team. It just isnt the ICT way

[starchief]

Exactly what I was thinking. You could say to players, we may not pay the best but we're loyal. Big gamble next year.

[AJS]

SMEE has hit it bang on the button, the clubs tradition and almost way of life has been thrown out the door for what Butcher described as a "totally different style of football".

If it works then he will have justified his decisons but if it fails then we will know where it all went wrong. I'm trying not to let my heart rule my head but i can't help but think its wrong.

[12th Man]

We are entering a new era as the club wants to progress,its a shame players have been moved on but thats how it is,keep a thought in the back of your mind though, our youth have probably learnt a lot from our players over the years and a little bit of their style of play may crop up from time to time, so players may have moved on but a little bit of them will remain.

We are only a few players short of a good team and at least we've still got Rosco.

[madsooz]

Seems we're not the only club to be doing this - quite a few shock departures from St Johnstone too, according to STV news earlier.

[AJS]

Seems we're not the only club to be doing this - quite a few shock departures from St Johnstone too, according to STV news earlier.

I want Colin Samuel! I know he has been released but he is an excellent player...bit off topic i know.

Edited May 16, 2011 by ajsict92

[Scotty]

Please not Collin Samuel. He was crap at Toronto FC and hardly set the heather on fire at St J. Would probably be looking for far more money than he is actually worth too

[CaleyD]

As fans we've always asked that the club be ambitious. Maybe this is the price we have to pay for that ambition and only time will tell whether or not it's worth the cost.

As much as we may disagree with the method, tinkering year on year has achieved little more than the status quo...do we just want the same thing year on year? Should we just accept that we are a lower end SPL team which occasionally gets the honour of being "the best of the rest" in a good season and relegation in a bad one?

I go through phases of fear and excitement. Fear that it could all go tits up, and excitement at the prospect of Butcher getting it right and what that might deliver. Not necessarily next season, but for the longer term future of ICT.

Aside from that, my biggest fear is that we as fans may lose patience too quickly if we don't see instant results at the start of the new season and we get calls for sackings in September, or something equally ridiculous.

[Tug]

i know im probably going to get a flurry of red dots for this but........

this was an inevitability, a fair number of our squad has been getting towards the golden age of there playing years recently and sooner or later these guys would have to be let go. it is sad to see such players leave but on the flip side to everyones feelings of sadness at them leaving i would like to ask a question

what would people feel if the older guys legs started giving way next season?? other clubs are bringing through a fair number of younger players who will have the pace to beat the older slower players who may have a wealth of skill but that wont help if they are 20 yards behind someone

[FoolPhysio]

what would people feel if the older guys legs started giving way next season?? other clubs are bringing through a fair number of younger players who will have the pace to beat the older slower players who may have a wealth of skill but that wont help if they are 20 yards behind someone

Aye, true, but there is an old story about two bulls standing at the top of a hill and the young one says "let's run down there and have one of those cows" to which the older one replies "naw, let's walk down and have all the cows". Point being, the older wiser heads may have the experience to be in the most effective positions they need to be (right place, right time) while young 'uns are running their socks off and getting knackered more quickly. Anticipation, ability to read the game, knowing where your oppo is going to be without having to look etc etc.

[+Tree]

Is this topic not overstating the situation?

We are losing 2 players (Grant and Russell) who can be considered as part of the current established first team.

Golly and Roy are both on the fringe (mainly due to age), Hogg only ever came up here for a few months of football, and the remaining players are all fringe players (for varying reasons).

[Huisdean]

Many posters have, in the past, taken the club to task for a lack of ambition. An example of this is when the club would say our aim is to finish 11th and avoid relegation. Lots of posters have come on and said we should aim much higher than this. Well that is what we seem to be doing now as what we have tried in the past hasn't really worked and moved the club forward to the next level. After our first spell in the SPL, had we really moved forward as a teama nd a club, don't think we really did and squandred some good opportunities to take the club forward. For that the blame lay with various managers and the Board. I think we now have a manager who has the ambition to try and move things on, not so sure about the Board, so, as Caley D says, let's show a bit of patience and see what happens next season, or maybe the season after that without losing patience quickly. There is a real chance here to move the club on or maybe some supporters do not want that?.

[AJS]

Please not Collin Samuel. He was crap at Toronto FC and hardly set the heather on fire at St J. Would probably be looking for far more money than he is actually worth too

Fair enough Scotty, you've probably seen him play more than i have then but i'm just basing my judgement on the few times i've seen him. Not an out and out scorer but he is a dangerous player.

[absent friend]

Perhaps, just perhaps, ICT are being very good to the two top players by letting them go on a free.

If their legs did go their value would drop so they are leaving at a time when their agent can punt them for the top dollar!

Assuming we are going to follow Killie's footballing style (under the last manager) - as opposed to route one, I feel that maybe Grant would be needing to adapt his game and this could be seen by management, as unfair.

Let's hope the future at ICT is fast attacking play, ball on the ground, with the up and over only a small part of our play.

I also hope that the management realise we have a team of 15 players and use the subs to attack tired legs and not just for the last 5 mins - too late to make an impact!!

[Scotty]

I also hope that the management realise we have a team of 15 players and use the subs to attack tired legs and not just for the last 5 mins - too late to make an impact!!

Ahh, thats why were in the bottom half ... we only use 14 !!!!

[+MrCaleyjag]

While I agree a little with your thoughts on the camorarderie and team spirit it is up to TB to keep this going, I have no doubt in my mind that he can and that he has total belief in himself and the players that he has kept. Like Tree said it is really only 2 big players we are losing that were fixtures in the first team and even then I think most of us knew that from the way RD was in and out of the team he was going to go sooner rather than later.

Lets also not forget that our young boys have come through the ranks so have the ICT way instilled in them, I believe this is what TB sees and the nucleus of the first team has been kept together. I know it might not seem like the ICT way but in order to progress in all walks of life we sometimes have to do something we don't want to do.

I just think there is more to the releasing of GM and RD than the fans will know and find out other than what we are being told.

As for certain players who are free agents, I agree with Scotty please don't sign Colin Samuel, he's not what we need and would not show the ambition that we as the fans want to see from this.

[absent friend]

I also hope that the management realise we have a team of 15 players and use the subs to attack tired legs and not just for the last 5 mins - too late to make an impact!!

Ahh, thats why were in the bottom half ... we only use 14 !!!!

Culcabock primary has a lot to answer for, Scotty!!

[Bloodstone]

From what I have read and heard, I think next season we will start of slow while learning a new style of play and allowing the new team members to integrate, then have a stonking 2nd half to the season. Probably end up roughly the same place again with maybe a good cup run. They take it forward the next season to a top half finish.

Over all I would be happy with that.

[FoolPhysio]

From what I have read and heard, I think next season we will start of slow while learning a new style of play and allowing the new team members to integrate, then have a stonking 2nd half to the season. Probably end up roughly the same place again with maybe a good cup run. They take it forward the next season to a top half finish.

Over all I would be happy with that.

So . . . business as usual then?

[MabawswaRichie]

Is this topic not overstating the situation?

We are losing 2 players (Grant and Russell) who can be considered as part of the current established first team.

Golly and Roy are both on the fringe (mainly due to age), Hogg only ever came up here for a few months of football, and the remaining players are all fringe players (for varying reasons).

Yep, Thats what I was thinking. The only 2 real first-teamers leaving are Grant and Russell. The nucleus of the squad will be the same come the opening day of the season.

[Alex MacLeod]

Many valid points but for me success is measured by improvement. In our first spell in SPL we stayed pretty much around the same position each season apart from the last so were we successful? I'd say not. We were happy to achieve survival each season. Since then we successfully came back up. We successfully achieved top of the bottom. We now need to better that to be successful again. Butcher believes he will find the players who can do that and likely believes he can get more for his money than he would by retaining Grant and Russell. He may even believe that younger players could have more fire in their belly's. Either way, and regardless of my feelings about the players being let go, I will support him until he fails.

[SMEE]

Many valid points but for me success is measured by improvement. In our first spell in SPL we stayed pretty much around the same position each season apart from the last so were we successful? I'd say not. We were happy to achieve survival each season. Since then we successfully came back up. We successfully achieved top of the bottom. We now need to better that to be successful again. Butcher believes he will find the players who can do that and likely believes he can get more for his money than he would by retaining Grant and Russell. He may even believe that younger players could have more fire in their belly's. Either way, and regardless of my feelings about the players being let go, I will support him until he fails.

To be honest Alex....i think we have to be realistic. Yes...i think from SFL1 down...Inverness Fans can expect to have success now and then, as we are one of the bigger clubs. But in the SPL, we pretty much have to accept that we will pretty much only be also rans at best. So, mibees im in the minority here...but while we remain in the SPL, and in its current format...i think 11th place or higher, come the end of the season, will keep me happy

[Scotty]

Its a hard one ..... and i tend to agree with MabawswaRitchie.

If we had released 8 players instead of 10 and retained Grant/Russell there would be little or no outcry as they would all have been expected, including Roy and Golly who, great servants though they have been, know themselves that they are both getting on.

Personally, I disagree with the idea of letting Grant and Russell go. I think truly good teams always have a blend of youth and experience and these two players would give us a lot of that experience. Both are barely 30, both can easily contribute to ICT for a few more years, and both may still be better than what we end up replacing them with. However, its the manager's choice, and none of us are party to the manager's plans just yet, or who he has seen, scouted, or may have made an offer to, so if we have faith in him, then we have to trust him...... despite the fact that losing two such long serving stalwarts sticks in the throat a bit !

[Neildsleftpeg]

I think it's a big gamble letting 2 of our more experienced players go. These guys know what it takes to beat either of the old firm teams. They have seen it and done it on a few occasions. Younger more inexperienced players may not have that mentality and may freeze on the big stage.

I hope not.

In my view you cant beat having an old head or two in the team to guide the younger lads.

[Croylo]

I think it very much depends upon the kind of player that he gets in, if he goes for pre madonnas or sh*t stirrers then team moral will be affected.

After the Brewster years the team spirit we have now is down to Butcher and the quickest way to affect this is to start interfering in it. I too am sorry to see Grant Munro go the same way I am sorry to see McBain and Gollabek go these are local boys who have a bond with the team. I would however be more sorry to see Johnny Hayes or Nick Ross go.

It's worth remembering what was left of our team spirit by the time Butcher took over, with the chip shop run and away days he has given the team the heart and the spirit they currently have so If he wants to tinker with it he can.