Butchers No Show at Testimonial

[Oddquine]

Given the fact that this thread is in the danger of, or has succeeded in, turning into a kick Terry Butcher one, rather than a praise Munro and Duncan one, maybe Butcher had an inkling of the way some ICT fans would react if he did turn up and decided to spare everybody at the testimonial the satisfaction of of making their day by booing him and possibly spoiling the day for Grant and Russell...and took the sensible course for the benefit of all......particularly of those who did the hard work of organising all the Testimonial for them.

As CaleyD said, damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

No sorry dont buy this! He is ICT manager and its his job to turn up as it was ICT v Ross County in the first half. He would not have got booed and I doubt he would even have got much stick. He could have watched from the hospitality area if he wanted. He missed some good performances from the younger players by not being there. BTW in not giving Russell and Grant new contracts Terry Butcher was just doing what he felt was right at the time ie his job. and although I dodnt agree with him I respect his right to make it.I think the damned if he did option was the one he should have taken in many fans eyes.

He is the ICT manager, certainly....but he had.... as far as I can see...... absolutely bugger all to do with the testimonial....if you read the Testimonial FB page. I'd have been very surprised if the team wasn't picked from volunteers to play, as opposed to Butcher choosing it and making them play.

Re the He would not have got booed and I doubt he would even have got much stick comment........you have a lot more faith in the decency of the usual suspect ICT "supporters" who post on here than I have after nearly three years of reading them...but then you may know them personally and know they whine on here for the sake of something to say........I don't and can only go by what I read.

And, given the fact that it was a celebration of what Munro and Duncan did for the club in their years here......the fact that you can even say I doubt he would even have got much stick simply illustrates that you know that there would have been some who would have been arseholes just because they could.

The Ross County forum for football supporting as opposed to carping is much better value than this one, tbh. A lot less hard on the blood pressure, anyway.

Anyway...do any of you know that he hadn't already spoken to Grant, Russell and the testimonial committee before he decided to not turn up and the reasons he gave for that decision? He has no obligation to tell us anything, even if you all think you own all his time.

[Oddquine]

Butcher is a coward and a bully IMHO .

As some would say you are

Not anyone that knows me .

But everybody who reads this forum and doesn't know you can only go by how you, and others, come across on here......and you do rather come across as lukemackay has described you.

[Oddquine]

You can all argue and defend as much as you want but I am afraid that Sorted has got it totally bang on.

Lets look at what the textbook says:

People with narcissistic tendencies have errors in thinking which prevents them from seeing things how they are from both sides of the picture. Not wanting to feel bad inside, they build defenses such as denial, repression and a strong need to be right. When the person has severe traits, they can feel an increase in self-esteem when they get what they want and feel no remorse or justify their using others. Some even get a sense of feeling superior when they get their way or make others feel bad. This is the dynamic underlying bullying. People with narcissistic behavior cannot handle criticism in any way and feel that they are being made wrong. . They are supersensitive to criticism and either attack the other person or they leave the scene. This blaming the person who gives criticism helps the person with narcissistic defenses avoid feeling guilt, shame and depression but it also keeps them from taking responsibility for learning from their mistakes and ultimately from growing up. They can pout and give the silent treatment or hold grudges.

Do you really know anything about anything..or are you just really good at googling? If you want to discuss narcissistic tendencies....we can always start with your posts on this forum, in which you sneer at everybody you perceive as being less intelligent than yourself...can we not.because the definition seems to describe you very well.

[Joonya]

I was not in the "Butcher out" brigade when Munro and Duncan got released as I wrongly thought he had must have had better replacements in mind. As you feel people are spouting "utter pish" can you let me know how you feel Butcher has in anyway improved the team in any shape or form this season, and if you are happy with the style of football been turned out on a regular basis.

Easy to say people are spouting "utter pish" but better if you can back that up with how they feel they are wrong.

Fair enough... Here goes.

Butcher brought in David Davies, Andrew Shinnie, Gregory Tade, Greg Tansey, and Roman Golobart. Arguably 5 of our star performers this season. Unfortunately Davies chose to pursue his dreams with Wolves and Shinnie, who was slow to start, turned out to be a real fans favorite and is on the long term injury list.

Billy MacKay has shown glimpses of brilliance as has OTJ since his return from long term injury, both of whom Butcher brought in.

Williams has also been brilliant since his arrival (I'll mention here that his is another Butcher signing) as has Josh Meekings (who, oh wouldn't you adam and eve it. He's a butcher signing too).

Along with his other previous signings for this club, Club Captain Foran, Star player Hayes, Current goalkeeper Tuffey and of course Chris Hogg, I'd say that Terry Butcher has done damn good for Inverness!

Granted, perfomances have been shocking (more so latterly), and no performance has been more boring in recent times than Saturday's game against Aberdeen. But when was the last time any of us saw a season where the manager has to change his squad almost every week because of a tweek here and a niggle there? The best we've managed in terms of the same starting 11 was 3 or 4 games around the festive period! All other times, Butcher has had no option but to mess with the squad to find the best fit.

What irks me most is that people forget all this because they're still hung up on the releases of GM and RD. Whenever there is a poor performance or bad result, there's almost certainly a comment regarding their release. They're so hung up on it, there's even a thread as to why Butcher didn't turn up for the players' testimonial match.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

You can all argue and defend as much as you want but I am afraid that Sorted has got it totally bang on.

Lets look at what the textbook says:

People with narcissistic tendencies have errors in thinking which prevents them from seeing things how they are from both sides of the picture. Not wanting to feel bad inside, they build defenses such as denial, repression and a strong need to be right. When the person has severe traits, they can feel an increase in self-esteem when they get what they want and feel no remorse or justify their using others. Some even get a sense of feeling superior when they get their way or make others feel bad. This is the dynamic underlying bullying. People with narcissistic behavior cannot handle criticism in any way and feel that they are being made wrong. . They are supersensitive to criticism and either attack the other person or they leave the scene. This blaming the person who gives criticism helps the person with narcissistic defenses avoid feeling guilt, shame and depression but it also keeps them from taking responsibility for learning from their mistakes and ultimately from growing up. They can pout and give the silent treatment or hold grudges.

Do you really know anything about anything..or are you just really good at googling? If you want to discuss narcissistic tendencies....we can always start with your posts on this forum, in which you sneer at everybody you perceive as being less intelligent than yourself...can we not.because the definition seems to describe you very well.

Oh dear me - hope you feel better after projecting all that internalised anger. I suspect that I must represent a domineering male figure from your past. My sincere apologies if I released some repressed memories or emotions. Suggest you may read up a little about narcississm and leave the formulating and "teaching" to professionals like maself.

[old caley girl]

Given the fact that this thread is in the danger of, or has succeeded in, turning into a kick Terry Butcher one, rather than a praise Munro and Duncan one, maybe Butcher had an inkling of the way some ICT fans would react if he did turn up and decided to spare everybody at the testimonial the satisfaction of of making their day by booing him and possibly spoiling the day for Grant and Russell...and took the sensible course for the benefit of all......particularly of those who did the hard work of organising all the Testimonial for them.

As CaleyD said, damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

No sorry dont buy this! He is ICT manager and its his job to turn up as it was ICT v Ross County in the first half. He would not have got booed and I doubt he would even have got much stick. He could have watched from the hospitality area if he wanted. He missed some good performances from the younger players by not being there. BTW in not giving Russell and Grant new contracts Terry Butcher was just doing what he felt was right at the time ie his job. and although I dodnt agree with him I respect his right to make it.I think the damned if he did option was the one he should have taken in many fans eyes.

He is the ICT manager, certainly....but he had.... as far as I can see...... absolutely bugger all to do with the testimonial....if you read the Testimonial FB page. I'd have been very surprised if the team wasn't picked from volunteers to play, as opposed to Butcher choosing it and making them play.

Re the He would not have got booed and I doubt he would even have got much stick comment........you have a lot more faith in the decency of the usual suspect ICT "supporters" who post on here than I have after nearly three years of reading them...but then you may know them personally and know they whine on here for the sake of something to say........I don't and can only go by what I read.

And, given the fact that it was a celebration of what Munro and Duncan did for the club in their years here......the fact that you can even say I doubt he would even have got much stick simply illustrates that you know that there would have been some who would have been arseholes just because they could.

The Ross County forum for football supporting as opposed to carping is much better value than this one, tbh. A lot less hard on the blood pressure, anyway.

Anyway...do any of you know that he hadn't already spoken to Grant, Russell and the testimonial committee before he decided to not turn up and the reasons he gave for that decision? He has no obligation to tell us anything, even if you all think you own all his time.

Oddquine lets just agree to disagree eh? TB is a big boy and Im sure he can cope with a bit of criticism. I dont think anyone would cope with his sort of job if they werent thick skinned.

As fot the posters on here well it would be a very boring world if we all agreed on everything wouldnt it? This is a well run forum where fans can argue their points within reason and I for one think thats how it should be. Of course no one is carping on the county forums just now as they are on a great winning run have won the title and are being promoted. Im sure if you looked back at our posts at the end of our promotion run I doubt there was much complaning of here either! Lets see if that continues for them when the going gets tough (as it enivitably will be at some point). As for me well I spend a lot of money following ICT and as long as I put my points across in a sensible and reasoned way well dont see any proble with having a different opinion to others!

[gordieict]

I was not in the "Butcher out" brigade when Munro and Duncan got released as I wrongly thought he had must have had better replacements in mind. As you feel people are spouting "utter pish" can you let me know how you feel Butcher has in anyway improved the team in any shape or form this season, and if you are happy with the style of football been turned out on a regular basis.

Easy to say people are spouting "utter pish" but better if you can back that up with how they feel they are wrong.

Fair enough... Here goes.

Butcher brought in David Davies, Andrew Shinnie, Gregory Tade, Greg Tansey, and Roman Golobart. Arguably 5 of our star performers this season. Unfortunately Davies chose to pursue his dreams with Wolves and Shinnie, who was slow to start, turned out to be a real fans favorite and is on the long term injury list.

Billy MacKay has shown glimpses of brilliance as has OTJ since his return from long term injury, both of whom Butcher brought in.

Williams has also been brilliant since his arrival (I'll mention here that his is another Butcher signing) as has Josh Meekings (who, oh wouldn't you adam and eve it. He's a butcher signing too).

Along with his other previous signings for this club, Club Captain Foran, Star player Hayes, Current goalkeeper Tuffey and of course Chris Hogg, I'd say that Terry Butcher has done damn good for Inverness!

Granted, perfomances have been shocking (more so latterly), and no performance has been more boring in recent times than Saturday's game against Aberdeen. But when was the last time any of us saw a season where the manager has to change his squad almost every week because of a tweek here and a niggle there? The best we've managed in terms of the same starting 11 was 3 or 4 games around the festive period! All other times, Butcher has had no option but to mess with the squad to find the best fit.

What irks me most is that people forget all this because they're still hung up on the releases of GM and RD. Whenever there is a poor performance or bad result, there's almost certainly a comment regarding their release. They're so hung up on it, there's even a thread as to why Butcher didn't turn up for the players' testimonial match.

Thank for the reply, just goes to show how some peoples views on brilliance differ, how many of those players he brought in would get in the team that he inherited, yes the team that was relegated very few in my opinion. I think letting Munro and Duncan go was a mistake, but I agree its in the past and we need to move forward now,, just to many players not up to it in my opinion. I never thought I would see the day that ICT would field a team without one Scot in it, the type of player the club was built upon.

Butcher needs to have a great pre season both in terms of who he brings in and preparation, I ain't saying he has an easy task far from it but I have my doubts that he is up to it.

Finally a big apology from me regarding his no show, he had a very valid excuse.

Edited April 25, 2012 by gordieict

[Joonya]

"I never thought I would see the day that ICT would field a team without one Scot in it, the type of player the club was built upon."

In which case, I'll join the Butcher Out Brigade, because Butcher should have thought about that before releasing Grant and Russell :lol:

[gordieict]

"I never thought I would see the day that ICT would field a team without one Scot in it, the type of player the club was built upon."

In which case, I'll join the Butcher Out Brigade, because Butcher should have thought about that before releasing Grant and Russell :lol:

not sure what you find so funny, it is a fact the club was built upon players like that, I believe Butcher has set the club back years with his strategy so guess we will just have to agree to disagree. What I find funny is people that have been bought in by Butchers charisma while ignoring the shocking football he adopts

[kiltarlity]

You can all argue and defend as much as you want but I am afraid that Sorted has got it totally bang on.

Lets look at what the textbook says:

People with narcissistic tendencies have errors in thinking which prevents them from seeing things how they are from both sides of the picture. Not wanting to feel bad inside, they build defenses such as denial, repression and a strong need to be right. When the person has severe traits, they can feel an increase in self-esteem when they get what they want and feel no remorse or justify their using others. Some even get a sense of feeling superior when they get their way or make others feel bad. This is the dynamic underlying bullying. People with narcissistic behavior cannot handle criticism in any way and feel that they are being made wrong. . They are supersensitive to criticism and either attack the other person or they leave the scene. This blaming the person who gives criticism helps the person with narcissistic defenses avoid feeling guilt, shame and depression but it also keeps them from taking responsibility for learning from their mistakes and ultimately from growing up. They can pout and give the silent treatment or hold grudges.

Do you really know anything about anything..or are you just really good at googling? If you want to discuss narcissistic tendencies....we can always start with your posts on this forum, in which you sneer at everybody you perceive as being less intelligent than yourself...can we not.because the definition seems to describe you very well.

Oh dear me - hope you feel better after projecting all that internalised anger. I suspect that I must represent a domineering male figure from your past. My sincere apologies if I released some repressed memories or emotions. Suggest you may read up a little about narcississm and leave the formulating and "teaching" to professionals like maself.

Surely a professional would reference the book this quote is taken from as it's disrespectful to your fellow professional not to. I have a keen interest in personality disorders and would like to read more of this. I would like to contrast and compare it with the DSM IV amongst others.

Edited April 25, 2012 by kiltarlity

[caleyboy]

This is getting a bit medi tech aint it?

[Oddquine]

You can all argue and defend as much as you want but I am afraid that Sorted has got it totally bang on.

Lets look at what the textbook says:

People with narcissistic tendencies have errors in thinking which prevents them from seeing things how they are from both sides of the picture. Not wanting to feel bad inside, they build defenses such as denial, repression and a strong need to be right. When the person has severe traits, they can feel an increase in self-esteem when they get what they want and feel no remorse or justify their using others. Some even get a sense of feeling superior when they get their way or make others feel bad. This is the dynamic underlying bullying. People with narcissistic behavior cannot handle criticism in any way and feel that they are being made wrong. . They are supersensitive to criticism and either attack the other person or they leave the scene. This blaming the person who gives criticism helps the person with narcissistic defenses avoid feeling guilt, shame and depression but it also keeps them from taking responsibility for learning from their mistakes and ultimately from growing up. They can pout and give the silent treatment or hold grudges.

Do you really know anything about anything..or are you just really good at googling? If you want to discuss narcissistic tendencies....we can always start with your posts on this forum, in which you sneer at everybody you perceive as being less intelligent than yourself...can we not.because the definition seems to describe you very well.

Oh dear me - hope you feel better after projecting all that internalised anger. I suspect that I must represent a domineering male figure from your past. My sincere apologies if I released some repressed memories or emotions. Suggest you may read up a little about narcississm and leave the formulating and "teaching" to professionals like maself.

Professional what? And what has calling oneself a professional got to do with anything, anyway?

The bankers who trashed our economy had qualifications and theories emanating from every orifice....and what did they accomplish in fact, as opposed to in their own minds? Our players are professionals, and they very often don't make any kind of a fist in even accomplishing the professional quality of giving 100% in doing their job and earning their pay....though maybe the modern football game, with its emphasis on tactics has trained all ability to think for themselves and react to unexpected situations out of players today. Many of our politicians are professionals....and they know, as far as I can see, very little about reality.

Expert and specialized knowledge in the field in which one is practicing professionally, does not necessarily equate to translating that expert and specialized knowledge/theory into competence and skill......although it does allow the ability to spout theories as facts, and not just an opinion which will only pertain until enough professionals get together and come up with another set of theories which make that opinion obsolete.......or a pharmaceutical company comes up with a drug which will help some personality disorder, once they have defined the symptoms of the disorder in a way which encourages the use of the drug and get it into the medical bibles.

You could call me a professional sceptic.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Oddquin, I suspect that you feel a lot better for ventilating all that frustration and anger - transference is a beautiful thing. And just consider yourself lucky that you are getting my services for free.

To continue though - you may actually be subconsciously referring to Terry Butcher in your second paragraph. I am also sorry that your pills didnt work but CBT or DBT is far more effective an adjunct than mere psychopharmacology.

Kiltarlity - this is a feckin football forum not a research publication. By the way DSM 1V is bit old hat- look at ICD10 instead.

You may be interested in "Disorders of personality" by Theodore Millon who incorporates the ICD 10 and the new DSM v in his analyses. My personal fave would be "Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorder" by Beck et. al as it is easy on the eye for the lay-person and looks at the whole spectrum of diagnoses, traits and treatments.

[CaleyD]

That'll be a no to the apology then?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Nope - becos ma formulation was made many moons ago and the majority of actions tend to support it.

"Love doesn't die a natural death. Love has to be killed, either by neglect or narcissism. Those guilty of these two crimes of the heart always hide behind excuses convenient; too ashamed, lacking in integrity and courage to face the truth. To them, it is always something other than their own actions, desires and self-importance that dictate circumstances. For these people, so blind to truth, true love can never be fully experienced for they have never really given of themselves all that they are."

Edited April 25, 2012 by IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER

[+DoofersDad]

[+bughtmaster]

Nice to know our posters are doing so much research on their own problems. Must be saving the tax payer a lot of money!!!!

[Oddquine]

Oddquin, I suspect that you feel a lot better for ventilating all that frustration and anger - transference is a beautiful thing. And just consider yourself lucky that you are getting my services for free.

To continue though - you may actually be subconsciously referring to Terry Butcher in your second paragraph. I am also sorry that your pills didnt work but CBT or DBT is far more effective an adjunct than mere psychopharmacology.

Kiltarlity - this is a feckin football forum not a research publication. By the way DSM 1V is bit old hat- look at ICD10 instead.

You may be interested in "Disorders of personality" by Theodore Millon who incorporates the ICD 10 and the new DSM v in his analyses. My personal fave would be "Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorder" by Beck et. al as it is easy on the eye for the lay-person and looks at the whole spectrum of diagnoses, traits and treatments.

What frustration and anger? What I post on here is simply puzzlement as to why some people who proclaim they are ICT supporters appear to be only ICT supporters as long as they are doing well, and promptly, in the event of poor results become ICT carpers. Supporting, imo, is looking for the silver lining beyond the current black cloud..and not reacting as if somebody has poured the contents of the half full/half empty glass they perceive onto the desert sands to be immediately dissipated into oblivion of the club.

.Easily seen you don't post on the political forums I do.......because then you'd know what my frustration and anger really was like. Kinda shows you're you are good at applying theory to unknown and unknowable situations from what you read....which is something I have never denied. I just question as to whether you can do more than spout theory on forums.

After all, I am not a "professional" " whatever it is you think you are"....but I have often accused others of having various personality disorders just from the tenor of their posts.....and nothing more concrete than that. I have found it an extremely useful method of getting round the "no personal attacks rule", and also handy because insulting politely means not having to go to the bother of bypassing the swearie filter (though Scottish swearie words do well on US based forums).so I spout theory on forums, as you do......but never claim I have any professional competence to do so....though I do admit sounding knowledgeable is inclined to stop people who buy into the idea that someone knows what they are talking about from responding and continuing the discussion/argument.

Well done.......the pills thing is something I, too, very occasionally use when insulting others.....though not a lot, in case it is true, in which case I feel like crap, when folk are offended.

I note you are also quite accomplished at assuming.....assuming that others don't consider their posts before making them.......assuming others don't know what they mean when they say/write something.....assuming you can read their minds.

Way I see it is that as the years go on, universities have added various faculties to their set-ups to accommodate the latest theories produced by people with vested interests (and to attract students and money). and people, failing any ability to do something useful, latch onto the esoteric..which may make the graduates feel important, but mean nothing at all to the vast majority of the population.

From the above, I'd not like anyone to think that I don't think that CBT, DBT and all the new versions invented to "update" them don't have their place...I'm sure they help some,..particularly celebriities who think it is a sign of importance and "self-awareness" and will give them excuses for /thinking behaving as they do. Won't necessarily sort them out......but will make them feel better about themselves. I do rather think that the original importance of CBT, way back, has been denigrated due to the vast extension of personality disorders defined by the AMA and accepted by rote by the UK.

The very fact that you can say to Kiltarlity By the way DSM 1V is bit old hat- look at ICD10 instead.... rather proves my point.somewhat. Crap increases where there are people who have a vested interest in increasing crap (which is mostly everywhere in the world today if they can get a grant to fund it or otherwise make money out of it and can persuade other "professionals" to believe it).......and there are enough people who don't do logical thinking and who accept the crap because they think that a university degree implies the writer knows what they are talking about. That concept hasn't worked as long as I can remember with politicians as a truism........why would anyone think it should be a given with any other profession who wouldn't have a profession in the first place if they hadn't first produced a theory out of nothing but their own vested interests?

I have read plenty books on all aspects of manipulation of people and the way they think, though mostly not through my deliberate choice, but because my reading matter was limited by that available......ranging downwards in common-sense from the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People to the ordure produced by professional entities who see any deviation from what they consider the norm to be a problem from which they can make money.

[Oddquine]

Nope - becos ma formulation was made many moons ago and the majority of actions tend to support it.

"Love doesn't die a natural death. Love has to be killed, either by neglect or narcissism. Those guilty of these two crimes of the heart always hide behind excuses convenient; too ashamed, lacking in integrity and courage to face the truth. To them, it is always something other than their own actions, desires and self-importance that dictate circumstances. For these people, so blind to truth, true love can never be fully experienced for they have never really given of themselves all that they are."

Maybe, rather than continue to disrupt a forum/thread which is meant to be about ICT at some level,, somebody who can hit the right buttons could move those posts on this thread which have nothing to do with ICT per se, to a more appropriate place......because I get the impression that, because you consider yourself to be a dominant male.....and I only have your word for it that you are a male in the first place, as I haven't checked out your profile (though you do certainly come across an an unreconstructed Scottish male personage)...... I get the feeling that it is going to be a long time before either of us will concede the last word to the other.

[Joonya]

"I never thought I would see the day that ICT would field a team without one Scot in it, the type of player the club was built upon."

In which case, I'll join the Butcher Out Brigade, because Butcher should have thought about that before releasing Grant and Russell :lol:

not sure what you find so funny, it is a fact the club was built upon players like that, I believe Butcher has set the club back years with his strategy so guess we will just have to agree to disagree. What I find funny is people that have been bought in by Butchers charisma while ignoring the shocking football he adopts

You're quoting me, following the quote I pasted from you, to in effect pose the question, and I quote 'not sure what you find so funny'. is that right?

Well, the quote you have quoted me on following the quoted quote that I quoted you on was merely an attempt at what I like to call, sarcasm.

I quoted your quote because I thought that particular quote read to me as another 'reason' for TB to get the boot (IE, failing to field a Scot, as I so quoted you on)

I therefore wrote the sentence you quoted me on following the initial quote I quoted you on as a sarcastic response because I think you'll look for any reason possible to oust Butcher.

What I find funnier now, having seen you quote me on the quoted quotes that I quoted you on, is that you think the quote you posted from me, following my quoted quote from you, seemed to you as being perhaps disrespectful to ICT and it's heritage, rather than the intended sarcasm...

In all seriousness, i'm just as disappointed with our performances this season as any other ICT fans, but i'm not into calling for the managers head after every bad game or poor result. Most of the people that are doing so will make some sort of reference to him releasing Grant and Russell.

I can't believe people are so naive to think RD and GM would have made any difference to our 2011/12 campaign!

[+Fraz]

Putting aside this whole 'professional' thing. Yet again the whole support issuse raises it's head. I made a post several months ago almost identical to the one I'm about to make but here goes again.

I don't understand why some people get lambasted and told they are not supporting the team for voicing their unhappiness in certain aspects of this season. If people are unhappy then surley venting their opinions and issues on an internet forum if perfectly appropriate. These same people can then still go to the games and wholeheartedly support the team. I have been unhappy with many aspects of this season and yet my wife and I still make all the home games some away games, clap, (sometimes) sing and do our best to get behind the team. If I dare to criticise TB or his decisions on a website am I not supporting the team?

In a nutshell I find it rather arrogant to say that some people do not support the team if all they are doing is voicing their opinions. I mean look at how many people walked out after the second Aberdeen goal went in, are all thise people only proclaiming to be supporters?

The missus and I support one another but we don't always agree!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Oddquin, I suspect that you feel a lot better for ventilating all that frustration and anger - transference is a beautiful thing. And just consider yourself lucky that you are getting my services for free.

To continue though - you may actually be subconsciously referring to Terry Butcher in your second paragraph. I am also sorry that your pills didnt work but CBT or DBT is far more effective an adjunct than mere psychopharmacology.

Kiltarlity - this is a feckin football forum not a research publication. By the way DSM 1V is bit old hat- look at ICD10 instead.

You may be interested in "Disorders of personality" by Theodore Millon who incorporates the ICD 10 and the new DSM v in his analyses. My personal fave would be "Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorder" by Beck et. al as it is easy on the eye for the lay-person and looks at the whole spectrum of diagnoses, traits and treatments.

What frustration and anger? What I post on here is simply puzzlement as to why some people who proclaim they are ICT supporters appear to be only ICT supporters as long as they are doing well, and promptly, in the event of poor results become ICT carpers. Supporting, imo, is looking for the silver lining beyond the current black cloud..and not reacting as if somebody has poured the contents of the half full/half empty glass they perceive onto the desert sands to be immediately dissipated into oblivion of the club.

.Easily seen you don't post on the political forums I do.......because then you'd know what my frustration and anger really was like. Kinda shows you're you are good at applying theory to unknown and unknowable situations from what you read....which is something I have never denied. I just question as to whether you can do more than spout theory on forums.

After all, I am not a "professional" " whatever it is you think you are"....but I have often accused others of having various personality disorders just from the tenor of their posts.....and nothing more concrete than that. I have found it an extremely useful method of getting round the "no personal attacks rule", and also handy because insulting politely means not having to go to the bother of bypassing the swearie filter (though Scottish swearie words do well on US based forums).so I spout theory on forums, as you do......but never claim I have any professional competence to do so....though I do admit sounding knowledgeable is inclined to stop people who buy into the idea that someone knows what they are talking about from responding and continuing the discussion/argument.

Well done.......the pills thing is something I, too, very occasionally use when insulting others.....though not a lot, in case it is true, in which case I feel like crap, when folk are offended.

I note you are also quite accomplished at assuming.....assuming that others don't consider their posts before making them.......assuming others don't know what they mean when they say/write something.....assuming you can read their minds.

Way I see it is that as the years go on, universities have added various faculties to their set-ups to accommodate the latest theories produced by people with vested interests (and to attract students and money). and people, failing any ability to do something useful, latch onto the esoteric..which may make the graduates feel important, but mean nothing at all to the vast majority of the population.

From the above, I'd not like anyone to think that I don't think that CBT, DBT and all the new versions invented to "update" them don't have their place...I'm sure they help some,..particularly celebriities who think it is a sign of importance and "self-awareness" and will give them excuses for /thinking behaving as they do. Won't necessarily sort them out......but will make them feel better about themselves. I do rather think that the original importance of CBT, way back, has been denigrated due to the vast extension of personality disorders defined by the AMA and accepted by rote by the UK.

The very fact that you can say to Kiltarlity By the way DSM 1V is bit old hat- look at ICD10 instead.... rather proves my point.somewhat. Crap increases where there are people who have a vested interest in increasing crap (which is mostly everywhere in the world today if they can get a grant to fund it or otherwise make money out of it and can persuade other "professionals" to believe it).......and there are enough people who don't do logical thinking and who accept the crap because they think that a university degree implies the writer knows what they are talking about. That concept hasn't worked as long as I can remember with politicians as a truism........why would anyone think it should be a given with any other profession who wouldn't have a profession in the first place if they hadn't first produced a theory out of nothing but their own vested interests?

I have read plenty books on all aspects of manipulation of people and the way they think, though mostly not through my deliberate choice, but because my reading matter was limited by that available......ranging downwards in common-sense from the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People to the ordure produced by professional entities who see any deviation from what they consider the norm to be a problem from which they can make money.

Perhaps this was more succinct from Mannie !!

Oh well, how handy was that!

[Huisdean]

for what it's worth, this was always a "nothing" story ceased on by some posters to try and make it a "big story". Yes, Butcher could, and probably should, have mentioned in the match programme but hardly a cause for some of the nonsense spouted. As Alex Macleod has stated, with such a poor attendance, more focus should have gone on that but to me, the attendance just highlights what what a poor level of support we have, both from the local population and by some posters on here who profess to be supporters.

[culduthel]

Could someone please organize for IMH to meet up with Oddquine for a few pints at the Innes asap. There seems to be a definite attraction between the two. They also seem to almost deserve each other in a weird sort of way.

Could someone also video the event and post it on here for posterity.

Thanks in anticipation.

[gordieict]

"I never thought I would see the day that ICT would field a team without one Scot in it, the type of player the club was built upon."

In which case, I'll join the Butcher Out Brigade, because Butcher should have thought about that before releasing Grant and Russell :lol:

not sure what you find so funny, it is a fact the club was built upon players like that, I believe Butcher has set the club back years with his strategy so guess we will just have to agree to disagree. What I find funny is people that have been bought in by Butchers charisma while ignoring the shocking football he adopts

You're quoting me, following the quote I pasted from you, to in effect pose the question, and I quote 'not sure what you find so funny'. is that right?

Well, the quote you have quoted me on following the quoted quote that I quoted you on was merely an attempt at what I like to call, sarcasm.

I quoted your quote because I thought that particular quote read to me as another 'reason' for TB to get the boot (IE, failing to field a Scot, as I so quoted you on)

I therefore wrote the sentence you quoted me on following the initial quote I quoted you on as a sarcastic response because I think you'll look for any reason possible to oust Butcher.

What I find funnier now, having seen you quote me on the quoted quotes that I quoted you on, is that you think the quote you posted from me, following my quoted quote from you, seemed to you as being perhaps disrespectful to ICT and it's heritage, rather than the intended sarcasm...

In all seriousness, i'm just as disappointed with our performances this season as any other ICT fans, but i'm not into calling for the managers head after every bad game or poor result. Most of the people that are doing so will make some sort of reference to him releasing Grant and Russell.

I can't believe people are so naive to think RD and GM would have made any difference to our 2011/12 campaign!

Can I quote you on that ,

Not true that I am looking for every excuse to get Butcher out, I must be honest in the fact I had my doubts about Butcher from the start but he did well up until the this pre season, to me he has no plan B and plan A ain't working