Labour Party

[SMEE]

Just curious about peoples views on where it has gone horribly wrong for Labour Party? Never in my lifetime have i witnessed any political party in such a mess.

Did Tony Blair see this coming, and jump ship to save blame?

Also...that Caroline Flint, last night saying she was "proud to be a part of Gordon Brown's Cabinet". Today...she lays the boot into the PM, then resigns. These schizophrenics are leading the country. No wonder its in a mess!

[starchief]

The economy was always a house of cards waiting to fall. It was all based on a 'good feeling' with little substance. Soon as American banks started questioning whether these mortgages were worth the paper they were written on, it collapsed. Labour bought in to the grow-and-grow myth, so they take the blame for it collapsing (quite rightly). Tories wouldn't have done much different, which is why I get more annoyed that votes switch back to another failed party with similar policies.

Same as the expenses scandal. Absolutely disgusting and the government deserves to fall. But do we really have to replace them with a party that's also damaged?

Having said that, I want Brown to stay for a little while, so we can really get rid of those that deserve to in the wake of the expenses. They don't leave? Then in a Labour ward, get an independent Labourite in. Same as in Tory wards. Then maybe get a complete change of government, not just a 'different' party.

I think another reason was, like Labour in the 80s, the Tories were such a mess, that they were completely unelectable. So much infighting that you couldn't expect a Tory Prime Minister to last much more than a year. It's taken a decade but now they seem vaguely behind their leader (who represents the Tories almost as much as Blair did Labour, i.e. not too much)

[Yngwie]

One thing to bear in mind is that nobody voted for Brown to be PM.

At the general election they voted for Blair, who had given assurances that he would serve a full term.

Brown didn't even win a leadership election in the Labour party.

He was then going to hold a general election to secure his own democratic mandate, but bottled it when it became apparent that the public preferred Cameron.

So we've been governed by someone who was a solid Chancellor but has never had democratic authority to be PM, which is perhaps part of the problem.

Time for an election please, let the people decide.

[Johnboy]

I have to say I'm fed up with repeated calls for an election when there absolutely no one, or credible alternative party worth voting for.

I hope Brown toughs it out and introduces sweeping changes to the expenses system. If he can achieve that at least he will leave his party - and government - in a cleaner, healthier state than is presently the case.

[Yngwie]

I hope Brown toughs it out and introduces sweeping changes to the expenses system.

Way back in April he announced a flat day-rate expense allowance to replace the current scheme. But it was ill thought out and he couldn't even muster the support of his own cabinet or MPs, so it's wishful thinking that he has the ability or authority to reform anything.

Dead man walking.

[SMEE]

Way back in April he announced a flat day-rate expense allowance to replace the current scheme. But it was ill thought out and he couldn't even muster the support of his own cabinet or MPs,

Well...why would they back a system, when they could bleed the existing expenses system for all its worth. Remember, this was before the sh1t hit the fan, and they could screw the country at will.

Expenses should be scrapped, and force the poor MPs to struggle by on the meagre ?64,766 per year they get.

Edited June 6, 2009 by SMEE

[Johnboy]

Well...why would they back a system, when they could bleed the existing expenses system for all its worth. Remember, this was before the sh1t hit the fan, and they could screw the country at will.

Expenses should be scrapped, and force the poor MPs to struggle by on the meagre ?64,766 per year they get.

Yeah....

And for a government minister the basic salary rises to 144K... and they're are the ones that were really screwing the system...

At least Brown's now made a start on clearing out some of these ghastly inadequates like Hazel Blears, Jacquie Smith, Tony McNulty, etc, etc...

Just how awful is that Hazel Blears?

4ft nothing with a head that bobs from side to side all the time, and that irritating self satisfied smile/smirk...

Like a budgie high on cocaine.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

I lived through the Thatcher years and for any Scotsman to want a return of Tory rule is incomprehensible .

[Yngwie]

An understandable but rather simplistic view. Would you also find it incomprehensible that any Brit could be friendly towards Germans?

Any organisation is characterised by its leaders at the time, and new regimes can bring change. The Labour party being transformed by Blair is a prime example.

[Dmacca]

There must be some MP's who truly do work hard and fair for their constituents without looking to feather their own pockets, but unfortunately its hard to believe.

[Glebeict]

I blame everything on that conservative George Bush

[Caley Stan]

Don't be fooled, Cameron is a Tory through and through.

He's just the face of a P.R. department that realised pretending not to be Tories was the only way to become electable again. Cameron and today's Tory party stand for all of the things that most people in this country rightly despise. Cutting investment in public services and promoting private healthcare and education. Lowering taxes for the rich and victimising the vulnerable people in our society.

Labour's twelve year spell in power has been a great disappointment, but punishing them by voting Tory would be cutting of your nose to spite your face.

[DAM]

Don't be fooled, Cameron is a Tory through and through.

He's just the face of a P.R. department that realised pretending not to be Tories was the only way to become electable again. Cameron and today's Tory party stand for all of the things that most people in this country rightly despise. Cutting investment in public services and promoting private healthcare and education. Lowering taxes for the rich and victimising the vulnerable people in our society.

Labour's twelve year spell in power has been a great disappointment, but punishing them by voting Tory would be cutting of your nose to spite your face.

Who's voting Tory? I, for one, certainly am not. The Tories will be lucky to win a single seat in Scotland at the next election. As far as "victimising the vulnerable people in our society" goes Gordon Brown made a bloody good job of that when he was Chancellor - for one thing, remember the 75p he awarded the OAPs , that couldn't even buy them a loaf of bread.

[The Mantis]

Don't be fooled, Cameron is a Tory through and through.

He's just the face of a P.R. department that realised pretending not to be Tories was the only way to become electable again.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. The Tories are the natural party of government in England. This is the place where UKIP and BNP can actually get people to vote for them.

The only way Labour got elected was to rebrand themselves as 'New Labour' and pretend to be the Tories. Now Blair's gone and they're left with slightly less right-wing people, they're unelectable again.

[Caley Stan]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. The Tories are the natural party of government in England. This is the place where UKIP and BNP can actually get people to vote for them.

The only way Labour got elected was to rebrand themselves as 'New Labour' and pretend to be the Tories. Now Blair's gone and they're left with slightly less right-wing people, they're unelectable again.

For all of its failures, New Labour has succeeded in moving the politics of the UK towards the centre. They've been in power for twelve years, and while i don't agree with their methods, they have raised taxes and invested huge sums in public services. Even the English would not be able to stomach a traditional Tory voice bleating about wasteful public spending and offering tax breaks to rich at the moment. So they give us as Cameron, a millionaire with one of the most right-wing voting records in parliament, and brand him a 'compassionate conservative' who loves the NHS and stays up all night worrying about global warming. I just hope people don't buy this bullshit.

Maybe you're right though. Maybe the English are just reverting to type. If that's the case then we should get shot of them as soon as possible.