Dundee -V- ICT : cup final thread

[caleytillidie]

I really dont think he did anything wrong. They were obviously told to expect an onslaught by dundee and to be solid and stay strong for the 1st 15 mins. They failed to do that and the substitution of sanchez for cox was understandable at a time when dundee were swarming all over us. I agree that he could have made changes after the third was scored rather than leave it til the end but apart from that i wouldnt fault butcher. I thought he set the team up well but there isnt much a manager can do when it looks like the players dont have the bottle for a fight when things start going against them.

[us2]

I would agree that the first 45 mins was the best i have ever seen caley thistle play

we all thought at half time we had it in the bag obviously terry butcher did not drive a message into there heads that they should not relax for the 2nd half and that is where it went wrong

a few things to say about the ref charlie richmond i think the first 45 mins he was spot on with his calls but in the 2nd half there were a number of wrong calls made by him

1. Imrie being Sent off- how could he send him off for a one-footed swip at that dundee player fair play it was late but if that was his first offence a yellow card and get on with the game he did not need to interrupt the game with so little time remaining and now imrie has got a ban because of that. just ridiculous

2. Dundee Third Goal Offside?- You have to blame the assistants this time just ridiculous Forsyth was in an offside position for the third goal which has denied us of another thirty minutes to see if we could get a winner in that extra time period and on the subject of linesmans when the ball went out for a throw to us the assistant points the other way and gives dundee a throw.

Charlie Richmond is the worst referee i have ever seen in scotland.

overall my man of the match for us was jonny hayes he was all over there defence amazing talent that butcher got us.

[MissICT]

Johnny was amazing. By far the best player on the pitch.

Caley played like a Spl team in the first half

Then we just fell apart in the 2nd

I don't see why one of our goals in the first half was disallowed the goalkeeper just fell.

The ref also sent of Imrie, Maybe a yellow but NOT a red plus the ref wasn't listening to the lines man and he kept stopping the game for Dundee but not for caley.

Overall I'm proud of the boys for getting so far :D

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

In the second half we were out thought and out run by a more determined, fiiter and younger outfit. Some of us have been there but what about the Jocky Scott / Dundee half time talk - I would have said that it was a pretty effective one - you ar 2-0 down, you should be dead and buried and then you score - that is the biggest buzz that you can get.

[gordyfromsneck]

I really dont think he did anything wrong. They were obviously told to expect an onslaught by dundee and to be solid and stay strong for the 1st 15 mins. They failed to do that and the substitution of sanchez for cox was understandable at a time when dundee were swarming all over us. I agree that he could have made changes after the third was scored rather than leave it til the end but apart from that i wouldnt fault butcher. I thought he set the team up well but there isnt much a manager can do when it looks like the players dont have the bottle for a fight when things start going against them.

On the contrary isn't that exactly what the manager should be doing. There are two things at stake here, morale and fitness. One player gets his head down after a turn in the game that is his fault, but if all of them do it, it is the managers. The team looked down as soon as they came out, when the first went in that just gave them the excuse to look beaten.

Secondly fitness, are the team as fit as they were under He Who Shall Not be Named? I would doubt it, but I would also ask whether that is significant or not.

Other than that, my criticism is that like on so many occasions before the subs were too late. They should have been on after the second.

What is it they say about hindsight being 20/20 vision?

[ictchris]

Congratulations to Dundee.

I don't think I've ever seen a game with two more contrasting halves. We were excellent in the first half, Johnny Hayes was in great form and we definatley should have scored more goals than we did - the disallowed goal (not sure what caused it to be chalked off) and Sanchez hitting the bar from six yards could easily have ended up as goals. We really bossed the game and had lots of possesion - Ithought that Duncan in midfield had a great game as well.

Second half we just gave too much time and space to Dundee and stopped pressuring them. Withthe quality of attacking players they have you can't really do that and we were punished. It's a cliche but defending a two-nil lead is tricky but the one thing that you must do in this situation is keep things tight just after taking hte lead and we didn't do that. I thought Dundee could have stretched away after they equalised but the game settled down, although we hardly created another chance.

Poor stuff from Dougie Imrie, glad to see our captain have a go at him for getting sent off in that way. hayes showed that he should be in the team ahead of Imrie anyway.

From a Caley perspective, the game was another example of our failings thsi season. We are good going forward yet brittle defensively and have made a habit of conceding goals in bunches:

Partick 26/09 - Three goals in six minutes

QotS 10/10 - Two goals in seven minutes

County 7/11 - Two goals in two minutes.

Dundee 22/11 - Two goals in five minutes.

Looking at our squad, I don't see what we can change to stiffen us up at the back. If we have any cash available in January we need to bring in a player like Mihadjuks or Dods, a dominant centre half that we've been missing for years.

[Doofer]

The 1st half was as good as i have even seen ICT play, it was superb and if we were 4-0 up at the break, dundee fans could not have complained and we should have been 3-0 but 2-0 was still very good. In the 2nd half they knew dundee would come at them and the team just let them. If the way the team was playing in the 1st half was causing so many problems for dundee, why change? Poor dicision!

Butchers subs were awful, imrie and eric should have been on in about the 70th minute not the last minute. Poor show from Imrie when he did come on, tut tut!

Very impressed with Rooney, Sanchez, Foran and especially Hayes, he was excellet. Well done!

Well done to all those people that stayed to the end and especially those who stayed to watch the team get their runners up medel and clap the team. For thier 1st half performance it was the least they deserved. Well done.

Finally, although we through a 2 goal lead away, i am glad it happened in the alba cup than in the league. Its a bit of fun the alba cup that would have been nice to win but at the end of the day, the leauge is the number 1 priority and i sincerely hope it does not happen in the league.

Roll on saturday!!

[TtotheOtotheM]

On the train down, we were all saying it was unlikely that we would win. Fair play to the players though, they came out and looked up for it, better performance than anything i watched last season in the first half. I loved the atmosphere and it obviously made a difference to the players, why oh why can we not make noise like that at home? At half time, we agreed that they were going to come out and give us a game, we concede a goal and then all our good play just becomes hoofball. Anyone know if theres anyway of watching the highlights?

[KirkieRobRoy]

Second half we just gave too much time and space to Dundee and stopped pressuring them.

That was the key difference for me.

Agree about enjoyment of the first half. It took me back to mad goal rushes back in the Pele days. Hayes was electric, classic ICT wing play.

Apparently some Dundee fans did leave at half-time. I wish I had.

[Kylef]

the games been recorded at my girlfriends, but is there any highlights online? was at the far end of the stand so i couldnt see what was really happening - all 5 goals were scored the other end.

[Yngwie]

?600 fine for Dundee fan who swore when trying to rally their fans to sing. Narrowly avoided a banning order because the judge was a Dee fan and at the match.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/139352-fan-esc...-over-disorder/

[Renegade]

Swearing!!?? There's no greater crime than that!

[Scotty]

The judge at least gave him a bit of leniency but the whole thing is ridiculous ...... 600 quid for shouting "Come on you p***** - sing!" ... I have uttered worse than that from above the tunnel with the scrambled egg on their hat brigade standing below me and I am sure most of us have ... how things change .... is it any wonder fans are scared to create an atmosphere.

[stevico1]

I can never remember a game where a team can go from been so good in the first half to so bad in the second half. Butcher deserves credit for getting it right with the starting line up but got it badly wrong in the second half no more so than with his subs baffling to say the least

Somebody that is in the game not an armchair fan texted me 5 or 10 minutes into the second half and said "you lot are going to have to change things around or you are going to get a doing" well we didn't and we did get a doing.

I hope Butcher can learn from his mistakes as he is not to far away from getting it right.

[absent friend]

the games been recorded at my girlfriends, but is there any highlights online? was at the far end of the stand so i couldnt see what was really happening - all 5 goals were scored the other end.

Wait until you see the recording in full Kyle, it is worth the wait!

You will have a problem trying to reconcile the comments of some on here with the actual facts as they unfold on the screen. Using the pause etc buttons you are able to see so much more than you did at the park and not just the goals.

From memory on here, I recall Esson being called crap, Eagle being rubbish, Rooney a waste of space, etc.....watch and learn!! One player receives pelters on here and he scored two goals in a manner that would have the EPL adding them both to their goals of the month - I know I exaggerate - but there is an element of truth in this.

We have a team of players that can do big things for us if their confidence and belief can be worked on. Let's hope their manager, unlike some folk on here, concentrates on their positive play and not use one mistake to negate all the other good work they put in!

[HumbersideDude]

the games been recorded at my girlfriends, but is there any highlights online? was at the far end of the stand so i couldnt see what was really happening - all 5 goals were scored the other end.

Wait until you see the recording in full Kyle, it is worth the wait!

You will have a problem trying to reconcile the comments of some on here with the actual facts as they unfold on the screen. Using the pause etc buttons you are able to see so much more than you did at the park and not just the goals.

From memory on here, I recall Esson being called crap, Eagle being rubbish, Rooney a waste of space, etc.....watch and learn!! One player receives pelters on here and he scored two goals in a manner that would have the EPL adding them both to their goals of the month - I know I exaggerate - but there is an element of truth in this.

We have a team of players that can do big things for us if their confidence and belief can be worked on. Let's hope their manager, unlike some folk on here, concentrates on their positive play and not use one mistake to negate all the other good work they put in!

Thanks for that,, Just made a bad day worse, I set sky+ to record game. Went to watch it this morning and Step-daughter decides because we were at the game she would cancel recording and recorded some girly crap instead. :D :008: :mad:

[Johnboy]

I just hope Butcher will sit down with his players, with a video of the whole game, and work out with them, how they managed to perform so well in the first half, and so badly in the second.

There just has to valuable lessons to be learned here.

If they can start their next 6 league games the way they started on Sunday, and not squander 2/3 goal leads, promotion would become a very realistic target, and much more than just a distinct possibility.

[Sir C the 3rd]

It was no where near as bad as everyone seems to think. Take away the 1st 10 minutes of the second half and we were probably the best team over the 90 minutes. As Chris says above we are just so fragile defensively. Almost every match there is an Esther Ranzen moment (your gums come back over your teeth) I think everyone thought Zadi was the weak link and do be fair he was an accident waiting to happen, but all over the back 4 we look very dodgy.

I think we're 2 players away from potentially having a great team. Firstly strip Munro of the captaincy and get a solid CB to play next to him, what we've needed for about 4 years. We also desperatley need a Paul Cherry figure in CM.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Sir C the 3rd

[absent friend]

I just hope Butcher will sit down with his players, with a video of the whole game, and work out with them, how they managed to perform so well in the first half, and so badly in the second.

There just has to valuable lessons to be learned here.

If they can start their next 6 league games the way they started on Sunday, and not squander 2/3 goal leads, promotion would become a very realistic target, and much more than just a distinct possibility.

Having studied the game again, as I said, I don't think it is as black and white as you make out above.

We did not play 'so badly' in the second half when you study it - yes we lost three goals but we could have scored three as well and then we would have been world beaters in some folks eyes!!

I think the team deserves lots of praise for the way they played but I do accept that we can even improve on that showing.

[caley100]

?600 fine for Dundee fan who swore when trying to rally their fans to sing. Narrowly avoided a banning order because the judge was a Dee fan and at the match.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/139352-fan-esc...-over-disorder/

I said much worse to that useless linesman in front of our stand.

Pretty much the rollercoaster as normal from us this season, talk about highs and lows!! craic was brill before the game in the Tulloch inst.

Pity we couldnt stay tight for another 10 mins in the second half, but i worry about our defensive frailty in the coming league games.

[old caley girl]

On the train down, we were all saying it was unlikely that we would win. Fair play to the players though, they came out and looked up for it, better performance than anything i watched last season in the first half. I loved the atmosphere and it obviously made a difference to the players, why oh why can we not make noise like that at home? At half time, we agreed that they were going to come out and give us a game, we concede a goal and then all our good play just becomes hoofball. Anyone know if theres anyway of watching the highlights?

I do think the lack of atmosphere at home is due to not having somewhere like the Tulloch Institute to go to before the game. It had all we needed booze, cheap food, good crack and kids welcome.Also on Sunday I think most folk were up for the game and determined to have a good day out. Dunno about highlights but I skyplused the game and have relived the agony several times now!

[Yngwie]

The gathering in the Tulloch pre-match was reminiscent of the golf club we used to go to when we played home games at Pittodrie.

I'll book us in now for next year's final. :D

[Guest]

The judge at least gave him a bit of leniency but the whole thing is ridiculous ...... 600 quid for shouting "Come on you p***** - sing!" ... I have uttered worse than that from above the tunnel with the scrambled egg on their hat brigade standing below me and I am sure most of us have ... how things change .... is it any wonder fans are scared to create an atmosphere.

It's amazing how different an angle people get when reading something, from the two quoted paragraphs what I read into the situation was that here is a guy who has been warned about his conduct then takes it upon himself to rush at another fan swearing. Now this might not merit a ?600 fine but I think that given he was rushing at someone the polis obviously felt the need to end the situation.

He had already been warned about his behaviour and when his team scored a second goal to equalise, Wallace was heard to shout: "Come on you p***** - sing!"

He was seen rushing towards another supporter to berate him and the police stepped in to arrest Wallace - removing him from the ground before his team scored the winner and collected the trophy.

Painter and decorator Wallace, of Bennan Gardens, Broughty Ferry, admitted breaching the peace by shouting and swearing and struggling with police officers on 22 November

The last bit in bold never does you any favours either, believe me :huh:

Edit- forgot to conclude my point,

I think that if the arrested man had stayed at his seat and not gotten in another fan's face before struggling with the officers who came to the aid of the other fan, then I think at worst the worst he would have expected would be ejection from the ground.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Birdog2

[alimci]

A football hooligan was shown mercy by a sheriff after a court was told he was only berating other supporters of his own team.

What a strange definition of the word "hooligan" also. Someone who shouts at sweetie rustlers.

[ICTFCkev]

The thing is, there's absolutely no reasoning with Tayside Police either. Try arguing your case or explaining something, and said 'Hi-Viz, Authority driven tube' tells you to shut up or you'll be put in the cells til Monday morning. Was an utter joke.

Never knew it was an offence to enter a football ground having consumed even a drop of alcohol beforehand either.

Edited November 24, 2009 by ICTFCkev