Quote Of The Season

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Why dont you all read the quote - that is how Lionel sums himself up - Come on - is that not worry you at this satge in the season ? The only positive is that Lionels terrible mistakes today didnt lead to goals - as they often do. Watch the Setanta highlights - his own players think twice before passing to him.

[DJS]

You know how we sometimes talk about a manager who has lost the dressing room. Well, I think it's got to the stage that Lionel has lost his team mates. There was evidence today of their annoyance with his errors and I think he may be becoming a worry and a distraction for the other players.

I feel really sorry for him but we need something better in that position.

[TopSix]

If he sticks to clearing the ball - for example the way he played at tannadump earlier in the season he's fine.

It's certainly entertaining to watch!

I hope Lionel scores the winning goal on the 23rd to put falkirk down. Then all this negativity will look a bit stupid.

[dead_ball_specialist]

He had a poor game today, but he was no poorer than Munro, Proctor, McBain, Black or Morais. And you also have to consider the fact that he was marking Hamilton's best attacking player. Most of their attacks were concentrated through Asamoah on the right flank and for the most part Lionel handled the pressure exerted on him pretty well. He was guilty of trying to play too much football at the back at times, but I also agree with the previous comment that some of our better attacking moves came from Lionel carrying the ball from the back.

Is anybody seriously arguing that we should re-introduce Hastings into our back 4 at this stage of the season? If Lionel is a 'bomb scare' waiting to happen, then Hastings is a thermonuclear warhead which has already happened.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

Why dont you all read the quote - that is how Lionel sums himself up - Come on - is that not worry you at this satge in the season ? The only positive is that Lionels terrible mistakes today didnt lead to goals - as they often do. Watch the Setanta highlights - his own players think twice before passing to him.

IHE Is it possible because the guy is French, the quote you are making such a big thing of, which he made, in English, is not quite the way he intended it to be? How's your French, btw? And, just how many goals has he, solely, been responsible for? Then compare that to any of Munro, Tokeley, Fraser, Essen, Proctor and probably all the other defenders. Is there much of a difference? I think not. You, IHE, were one of Hastings biggest critics. At least you personally are not advocating his return, favouring as you do, McBain, at left back. But I do find it laughable that so many others are pushing for Hastings to get back in. Don't get me wrong, I think Hastings has been a great servant to ICT, but, in my view he has been found lacking this season, even before his injury. Clearly Butcher, unlike IHE, doesn't fancy McBain at left back, so imo he has had no choice but to give Lionel an extended run. He was very brave to start him at left back against Celtic, after his poor showing against Partick, but Lionel overall has not let him down, and I would be surprised if he didn't stick with him for the rest of the season.

[Renegade]

Get shot of him - NOW.

At no point did proctor/munro/tokely make any move or judgement call today that was anywhere near as bad an error of judgement as any of approx 6 that lionel made. Their number 36 took advantage right from the first min and drew lionel into making foul after foul upon him, mainly right at the goal line. I feared greatly that he was going to cost us the game and very possibly our SPL status. He seems generally incapable of just booting the ball clear and at one point twisted and took the same guy on about 8 times, when could easily have just belted it out.

I don't get th anti-Munro comments today - personally I thought he was magnificent at the back and generally cleared everything coming towards our goal, thought Tokely did very well at sticking to his task (booo) and cleared most that came to him in the air.

Get Hastings back asap - we just can't afford to have Lionel in for the rest of the season, as enteraining and enigmatic as he may be!

Those weren't clearances, they were intended to be long passes! That's his biggest weakness unfortunately. With Munro is all punt, punt, punt.

Here's the thing with Lionel though, would he be better in a more attacking position so he could run at the oppostions defence. It could be someothing like that that's needed in the next few games. But rememebr Hastings has been off the boil for quite some. Last season countless goals came from the area where Hastings failed to defend properly, or sometimes he wasn't even there. What about McBain? Not that great at left back it has to be said. What about Byrne? Would he be worse than Lionel? What about Gathuessi? Is he even here? Is he even still alive? Does he even exist? What abut Proctor? No thanks. What about Duff? Jesus Christ no way he was dreadful at right back. What about Vigurs? What about Imrie? What about Black? My prediction is this - Lionel will continue to the end of the season and will score the winning goal in the final game which will save ICT from the drop, mesmirising his doubters.

[alimci]

Why dont you all read the quote - that is how Lionel sums himself up - Come on - is that not worry you at this satge in the season ? The only positive is that Lionels terrible mistakes today didnt lead to goals - as they often do. Watch the Setanta highlights - his own players think twice before passing to him.

IHE Is it possible because the guy is French, the quote you are making such a big thing of, which he made, in English, is not quite the way he intended it to be? How's your French, btw? And, just how many goals has he, solely, been responsible for? Then compare that to any of Munro, Tokeley, Fraser, Essen, Proctor and probably all the other defenders. Is there much of a difference? I think not. You, IHE, were one of Hastings biggest critics. At least you personally are not advocating his return, favouring as you do, McBain, at left back. But I do find it laughable that so many others are pushing for Hastings to get back in. Don't get me wrong, I think Hastings has been a great servant to ICT, but, in my view he has been found lacking this season, even before his injury. Clearly Butcher, unlike IHE, doesn't fancy McBain at left back, so imo he has had no choice but to give Lionel an extended run. He was very brave to start him at left back against Celtic, after his poor showing against Partick, but Lionel overall has not let him down, and I would be surprised if he didn't stick with him for the rest of the season.

I agree. I also agree that when he gave the ball away yesterday and Offiong almost scored as a result, he could have lost us the game. But I actually like watching Lionel, and I don't think he's any worse defensively in LB than Proctor is in RB. What's wrong with Pavels btw? I find Munro's constant inclusion more annoying than Lionel's. Lionel at least has creativity (and if he'd scored yesterday from that long ball would have been a hero), albeit a tad raw, but all Granty can do is hoof. And as often as not, *that* ball goes to the opposition. Why not try Pavels and Rossco in the centre and Munro as RB?

[Harry Chibber]

I don't get th anti-Munro comments today - personally I thought he was magnificent at the back and generally cleared everything coming towards our goal, thought Tokely did very well at sticking to his task (booo) and cleared most that came to him in the air.

Me neither, I didn't think Munro missed a trick at the back.... he was excellent against Mirren and solid again yesterday???

Zadi... where to start??

He's Here, He's There, He's every fecking where Djebi-Zadi, Djebi-Zadi!!

I think that sums him up perfectly. I actually think he is one of our most exciting players when going forward, he's quick, tricky, boundless energy, good delivery and big enough to cause anyone trouble... problem is he looks completely lost when defending; his positioning is attrocious and he is making the wrong decisions continually. So really when you are looking a Zadi you have to decide, is he offering us more good or bad and with some of our most important matches ever coming up... I just wouldn't want to take the risk but I can understand why Butcher is taking the gamble.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

It is probably too late to axe Zadi. I would have brought back Hastings 5-6 games ago to see if his lay off had got him to pull his socks up Putting him in now would be an equal risk. I advocate McBain cos there aint anyone else and I have always felt that he has looked the part when he has played in that position. The one thing about McBain is that he can defend and he is a no nonsense player. Vigurs could have been another but again that would be a risk now

Zadi is OK when he is in the opposition half or when we are dominating the game nd takes no risks - there are games when he has stuck to that but he ALWAYS appears to make a crucial error and he was abysmal yesterday. But I am worried about - Translation error or not he is saying what many of us have said all season - but given his performance yesterday he is NOT learning - and secondly the press and the media are now beginning to ridicule him - the large majority of the fans are losing faith BUT most importantly it is clear that some of his team mates are losing faith. I would also suggest that the opposition coahing staff have sussed him as well.

I said it weeks ago but it is worrying that the Assistant Manager of the National team continues to keep faith in a player who could put the club at risk - and yes playing Munro in front of Pavels may be in that context as well.

Believe it or not I wish he had scored one of those shots at Midden or yesterday - It would have done his and our confidence the power of good. Just lets hope that he has been mightily bollicked and he plays a no nonsense game like he did at castle Greyskull.

[KingBeastie]

While I swore every time Jimmy made a mistake yesterday, and there was a lot of swearing, he's not been responsible for us losing that many goals. I don't think he's that good at going forward and rather should be looking for a good quick pass so he can get back to where he should be and concentrate on that and keeping it simple in defense.

Despite the mistakes we should keep him where he is for the last 3 games, he knows he's making errors but is prepared to admit and address these. It's that sort of honest attitude that will see us safe (look at all the players hiding and/or not taking responsibility at Killie and Midden).

It's been said that other managers target that area of the pitch as an area they can exploit against us and I believe that's true but apart from Falkirk none of them have had much success. Butcher is not daft and will know that teams will try this and on the whole it's not bringing the opposition much success.

While left back is a problem area and Jimy is making errors (and near gives me a coronary every time I watch him) things are not as bad as some are making out.

We will stay up.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Despite the mistakes we should keep him where he is for the last 3 games, he knows he's making errors but is prepared to admit and address these. It's that sort of honest attitude that will see us safe (look at all the players hiding and/or not taking responsibility at Killie and Midden).

We will stay up.

Now that I may have to concede - I accept that he is being used as a bit of a scapegoat and others are missing out on the flak becos of it. But the timing for the honesty was terrible - when he says that in the National Press he is advertising the fact to the other teams. He played OK at Midden even if he made the mistake for the goal. If you see ma Smileymometers I have been giving him 3/5 most of the time. But he cannot be allowed to play like he did yesterday - that was a backward step and I cannot but help stating that the quote may have affected him. Tell him that all he has to prove in the next three games is that he can defend in an honest manner. He cannot be allowed to ***** foot about - I would be quite happy to watch him hoof everything, stick to his position and zone and leave the football to the others.

I also think that McBain has been introduced to "protect" the left flank - and if that is the case - is that not a waste of a player - Imrie swopped when they went down to 10 men and the pressure was off Zadi.

Anyway I aint going to say no more - Please Lionel - just feckin hoof the feckin ball till the end of the season.

[TheKnowledge]

I think the part of Jimmy Jabby's play that hurts us most is, the rest of the team don't seem to feel that confident around him. As has been said on this forum for a couple of months now, his team mates look like they think twice before passing to him. I hope he comes good though. If I remember correctly, Fernando Ricksen was a pretty nervous and mistake prone player for his first couple of seasons at Rangers but became a fan favourite. It's probably to late in the season to drop jabby but I hope he has a long think over the summer.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I would suggest that Mr Ricksen had a better backgound, experience and footballing pedigree. Lionel will go back to being a squad player next season - but it is this one that we are worried about.

[rinomac]

I think Lionel's problem is that if he makes an early mistake he loses his confidence. There have been other weeks that he gets in a good challenge in the opening minutes, and plays well for the rest of the game - the Dundee United game sticks in mind when he cleared EVERYTHING at our back post. Chances are though, that if I have a heart attack at one of our remaining games, it will probably be because Lionel has skinned the opposition player, and himself.

[Govan Jaggie]

He just need to learn to stop trying to see the ball out and just get rid, Safety first as he is not the most skillful player we have. That is what he did at Ibrox and he he played great. On Sunday he was trying to be to smart for his own good and was made a target by Hamilton in the same way teams did to Ross. Play to your strengths Jimmy and just play safe.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Govan Jaggie

[AJS]

Lionel has his moments but Hastings wasn't much better leading up to Butcher coming in. I grant he looked rather unsettled yesterday but he did have some good moments as well.

[12th Man]

His consistency has dropped slightly but he still has my full support,who else would you rather have as the last man when we are up the park.

I think his biggest opponent is himself, If he can get himself on his side he will be an outstanding player.

[TheKnowledge]

I would suggest that Mr Ricksen had a better backgound, experience and footballing pedigree. Lionel will go back to being a squad player next season - but it is this one that we are worried about.

It's all relative....

[Council Juice]

Then why is Hastings not back in the team? perhaps management see things differently from your wise perspective.

Did Hastings not pick up an injury when TB got the job, or thereabouts. 2ndly he isnt fit... yet so isnt back in the team.

I wouldnt play Gatheussi there. From what I hear from a fair amount of Hibees , he's every bit the bombscare Lionel is supposed to be. In fact I think they called him Theirri bomb-scare. So perhaps he isnt the better option.

I'd take McBain at left back. Played there before. Good left foot. good engine. Fairly dependable and solid. No frills.

Play Vigurs in front perhaps?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

When you are in a corner and you look around you to see who ya can rely on - ya go fer the proven, reliable and the confident.

[Alex MacLeod]

Sorry but I think Lionel and Ross are the only defenders we have that can actually read whats in front of them and the only ones who actually try to get the ball on the ground and create some footballing play. The others seem only capable of punting long high balls to the opposition. Lionel and Ross both take a great deal of stick from the armchair managers because they tend to get caught out. Why do they get caught out? because the central defenders aren't capable of covering for them.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Sorry but I think Lionel and Ross are the only defenders we have that can actually read whats in front of them and the only ones who actually try to get the ball on the ground and create some footballing play. The others seem only capable of punting long high balls to the opposition. Lionel and Ross both take a great deal of stick from the armchair managers because they tend to get caught out. Why do they get caught out? because the central defenders aren't capable of covering for them.

Are we referring to Ross Kemp and Lionel Ritchie ? :blah01: Or are you Alex Gilroy ? Or are you pishhed ?

[DornochJAGGIE]

Lionel had a bad game against accies. Lionels got everything hasting doesnt, speed and he gets forward. id play imrie on the left to give him abit of cover, beacuse imrie always works back and helps out the defence.

[Renegade]

I tell you what I'd do in the pre-season. Lionel has something that a lot of other players don't have, both height and pace. He's got a few slinky too. I reckon Lionel would be far better if he played left wing, possibly with Imrie moving into sitting behind the front two of Foran and a new prolific striker. If Lionel was in an attacking position, sticking crosses into the box and puting pressure on the opposition full back he could be a very useful player indeed. Antoher thing as well is if he comes up against a rather slow, immobile defender like David Weir for example, and Lionel gets past him, he won't be caught. In the whole of the pre-season I'd be training up Lionel to play into this position.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Renegade

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Lionel had a bad game against accies. Lionels got everything hasting doesnt, speed and he gets forward. id play imrie on the left to give him abit of cover, beacuse imrie always works back and helps out the defence.

But the bottom line is that he doesnt have a feckin scooby !!