Livingston FC

[RiG]

[Harry Chibber]

:finger03: :D

to be fair at least he had the cahoonas to try and face up for his mistakes but it's clear from that statement the guy is clueless. The problems were caused long before he was incharge though and I sort of feel sorry for him having to take the majority of the blame

[caleyrule]

Its well known that the vote is taken tomorrow with the 29 sfl club membera all getting a vote (would be 30 but annan arent a full offical sfl member yet) and that livingston will need 15 votes to be saved well they have at least 2 :021: obv they will vote for themselves + dundee are backing them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...dee/8196432.stm

do they like making themselves unpopular ?

[Guest birdog]

Its well known that the vote is taken tomorrow with the 29 sfl club membera all getting a vote (would be 30 but annan arent a full offical sfl member yet) and that livingston will need 15 votes to be saved well they have at least 2 :P obv they will vote for themselves + dundee are backing them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...dee/8196432.stm

do they like making themselves unpopular ?

Perhaps those at Dundee realise that a similar fate could befall themselves, or indeed any other team in Scotland. Even with my dislike, bordering on hatred, for Livingston I can't help but empathise with this quote-

But Dundee chairman Bob Brannan said: "The people who are being punished here are Livingston's genuine fans

Livi joined us in Division three in 1995 and our paths have not been too dissimilar, there but for the grace of God! There are a few folk out there who would crack open a bottle of bubbly should we find ourselves where Livi are now, think how we would feel then, it's the fans who will suffer.

On second thoughts, stuff them, they have been cheating the system since the commonwealth stadium was built :D

[Scotty]

obv they will vote for themselves + dundee are backing them http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...dee/8196432.stm

Perhaps those at Dundee realise that a similar fate could befall themselves, or indeed any other team in Scotland.

Suggestion on P&B that Dundee are doing it because they are also "technically" insolvent. Obviously they have their money man but they are still in debt (albeit less) and dont yet own their stadium (although long drawn out negotiations are taking place on that front) ............ on that basis, perhaps we should back them too ..... it would fair wind up the league leaders County as well :P

[Guest birdog]

it would fair wind up the league leaders County as well :P

:D :024: :024:

Watch Livi die or wind up the tinklers, decisions decisions,

Where did I put the Save the Lions link?

[Mr_W]

A step closer to the end then.

[RiG]

Appeal rejected (BBC Sport)

[Harry Chibber]

ah well.....

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Clyde's boat is sinking too! We have not heard from Stirling recently so the number of clubs in trouble is not easing. I recall Ali McGraw years back talking of the need for teams to consolidate in Scotland and basically we are witnessing reality hitting home. Livvy will screw up fixtures again this weekend with their next appeal to the SFA. One hopes that come next week they play an official game or get docked points for both call offs. Chester started with -26. Livvy have a golden chance to regroup, win Div 3 and move up again. If they lose out on the next appeal they might snooker their chances of being above Elgin at this stage. Do they have financial problems?

[Alex MacLeod]

First of 26 clubs voted. Annan exempt for being associate members of league, Airdrie and Cowdenbeath exempt for their vested interest and Livi also exempt from vote.

Dundee have admitted their support. I wonder where our club and RC stood on this one.

As has been said, "there but for the grace of god". Yes, it could be said that Livi conjured up their own fate with big spending etc. I think ICT fans were a bit blinded in our hatred because they took players from us but thats football. I think its very sad that the league have taken the stance they did. They didn't give the new owners any time, help or support to get the club back on a stable course. They asked for a ?720k bond that they knew Livi had no chance of raising. Scottish football makes the rules as they go along, and usually on the back of a fag packet.

Imagine if our creditors were to decide tomorrow that they can no longer wait for their money. Imagine if the financiers of the stadium group decided to call in their debt. We could so easily find ourselves in a similar position.

Yes some may like to gloat about Livi but............................................

Personally I think a points penalty and stay in the league they were in would have been enough.

[kiltarlity]

Couldn't agree with you more Alex, Livi have been treated harshly imo...

[Libero]

First of 26 clubs voted. Annan exempt for being associate members of league, Airdrie and Cowdenbeath exempt for their vested interest and Livi also exempt from vote.

Dundee have admitted their support. I wonder where our club and RC stood on this one.

As has been said, "there but for the grace of god". Yes, it could be said that Livi conjured up their own fate with big spending etc. I think ICT fans were a bit blinded in our hatred because they took players from us but thats football. I think its very sad that the league have taken the stance they did. They didn't give the new owners any time, help or support to get the club back on a stable course. They asked for a ?720k bond that they knew Livi had no chance of raising. Scottish football makes the rules as they go along, and usually on the back of a fag packet.

Imagine if our creditors were to decide tomorrow that they can no longer wait for their money. Imagine if the financiers of the stadium group decided to call in their debt. We could so easily find ourselves in a similar position.

Yes some may like to gloat about Livi but............................................

Personally I think a points penalty and stay in the league they were in would have been enough.

wasnt the ?720k bond needed to assure the SFL that Livi had the finances in place to fulfil all of their league games including wages, maintenance of a certified stadium etc? if that is the case then i think making sure that Livi were capable of lasting the season was a sensible demand.

i think once a club becomes insolvent the SFL rules state that demotion is a given and after demoting gretna for becoming insolvent then they had little choice to do anything different.

what makes this whole situation so much more complicated is the fact that Massone held his shareholding until it was too late, if he had sold the shareholding and the rescue package was agreed prior to the club becoming insolvent then the whole debacle could have been avoided.

i think its extremely sad in this situation because there were people ready and willing to save Livi but for Massone and his bizarre workings any chance of survival was doomed to failure.

i certainly dont feel the need to gloat because in the current financial climate insolvency is a fate which can and most probably will affect more clubs this season.

[Mr_W]

First of 26 clubs voted. Annan exempt for being associate members of league, Airdrie and Cowdenbeath exempt for their vested interest and Livi also exempt from vote.

Dundee have admitted their support. I wonder where our club and RC stood on this one.

As has been said, "there but for the grace of god". Yes, it could be said that Livi conjured up their own fate with big spending etc. I think ICT fans were a bit blinded in our hatred because they took players from us but thats football. I think its very sad that the league have taken the stance they did. They didn't give the new owners any time, help or support to get the club back on a stable course. They asked for a ?720k bond that they knew Livi had no chance of raising. Scottish football makes the rules as they go along, and usually on the back of a fag packet.

Imagine if our creditors were to decide tomorrow that they can no longer wait for their money. Imagine if the financiers of the stadium group decided to call in their debt. We could so easily find ourselves in a similar position.

Yes some may like to gloat about Livi but............................................

Personally I think a points penalty and stay in the league they were in would have been enough.

For me, Alex, it has nothing to do with players moving from us to Livi. That being the case then we'd have to despise a lot of teams!!

No, it's more that the lessons of the last time weren't taken on board. They got out of it last time by paying 2p in the ? and to be honest, it's even more of an insult now to be in a similar situation.

Partick were heading for a similar fate a few years back and stood their ground, got a bit of finance in order, unlike the garbage Massone subjected Livi to, and paid of creditors virtaully the full amount. By doing this they took the hit and languished in the lower leagues. Livi want the cake, and eat it too. As has been said, the Scottish League set the precedent with Gretna, and had to follow likewise.

As for gloating and the possibility it could happen to us, indeed it could. Thankfully, life isn't always about the "what if" scenario, and as a result investments and gambles are to be made in football clubs.

I don't want to see clubs going to the wall, but if it's run badly as a business, then in the current economic climate, it's ineviitable that it will happen.

[Alex MacLeod]

By demoting Gretna to div 3 the SFL killed that club. The one buyer who could have saved the club, kept it full time in Div 1 and ensured the livelihoods of a lot of people, pulled out because of the demotion. So, seeing as that the SFL have not learned a thing from this, is it right to put another club in the same position when, given time, they may recover?

[CaleyD]

How can anyone argue that they should have been allowed to remain in Div 1? They got there through unfair means and by spending money they didn't have, and still don't have.....over ?11 Million of money they didn't have.....and that's not counting whatever might be written off this time around.

Also, the league did not ask them for a ?720k bond. They asked the LMC at the first meeting whether them paying a bond might help their case and the LMC told them it possibly could and they would get back to them with an idea of the kind of figure it would be. At the next meeting, when asked if the Bond could/would be put in place, Livingston refused to do it.....which is when discussion moved on to relegation.

There's a lot of mis-information out there and the administrator and Livingston 5 are remaining tight lipped and allowing it to continue because they have the view that the more chaos they can create, the more likely the SFL are to back down.

To be totally honest, I started out with the opinion that I didn't want to see Livingston go to the wall.....but the current attitude of the fans and the way this new consortium seem to be going about business so far is quickly eroding any sympathy I might have had for their plight.

[davie]

By demoting Gretna to div 3 the SFL killed that club. The one buyer who could have saved the club, kept it full time in Div 1 and ensured the livelihoods of a lot of people, pulled out because of the demotion. So, seeing as that the SFL have not learned a thing from this, is it right to put another club in the same position when, given time, they may recover?

Alex, if this had been the first time that Livi had got into deep doodoo, I might agree with you. Their creditors have put up with a ton more than this clubs ever had to or will have to. If Livi fold, it gives someone else prudent enough and ambitious enough to take their place (I've no idea who that would be) No grudge against Livi, it's just that they don't have a divine right to survival. Ask any dinosaur.

[caleyblue]

my question is how many other companys/people have suffered again because livi couldnt get there house in order once was bad enough but to do the same thing again sorry its there own fault they should now regroup in the 3rd divi and get on with it

[caleyrule]

Livingston FC will be playing there game this saturday v Montrose

[kiltarlity]

my question is how many other companys/people have suffered again because livi couldnt get there house in order once was bad enough but to do the same thing again sorry its there own fault they should now regroup in the 3rd divi and get on with it

The creditors have lost out by Livi going down to the third. The package to buy the first divison club included an agreement to pay 8p or so in the pound to creditors via a CVA.

The agreement to buy them as a third division club, will see the creditors get less or nowt..

If indeed some of these are creditors who lost out first time around, why did they extend credit facilitys to Livi again... they have contributed to there own problems...

Edited August 14, 2009 by kiltarlity

[The Fly]

Clicky

Has there ever been anyone in charge at Livingston FC who's not turned out to be a shyster, scammer or just plain incompetent? :D

[Scotty]

"allegedly"

[absent friend]

I thought this was Livi's day of reckoning.

[CaleyD]

Next week I believe.

[caleyrule]

Livingston's last hope today was dashed when there final appeal was rejected

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ton/8241342.stm