Where did it all go wrong

[RiG]

Black just held out as long as he could til another club came in for him.

Black wanted a new contract as early as September / October 2008. It was him that was trying to instigate contract talks with the club! As with a lot of first teamers, when it came to December / January and the team was rooted at the foot of the table they, quite rightly, chose to put off any contract talk until they knew where ICT would likely be playing the following season. We had a chance to tie Black up long before he started getting offers from other clubs and for some reason it was passed up on.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Here is a teaser fer ya all to ponder on - the blame can all be placed on a group of individuals fondly regarded as being a bunch of m----e-s.

[Hearach]

Never mind where did it all go wrong. The question is - When will it all start to go right? Soon I hope cos Saturday was a total disgrace.

[Jay_7]

He was offered the most expensive contract the club had ever offered.

Buying that one, are you?

Funny how Dargo was offered this "tremendous" deal yet we still managed to offer Marius more... ;)

[ralph milne]

I just dont see the point in these "Where did it all go wrong " posts they've been done to death theres nothing anyone can do to change it so move on .

We need to concentrate on the here & now !

By identifying where it's all gone wrong - we are identifying who is to blame. IMO the manager is not to blame. Blame lies squarely at the board.

Unfortunately as the blame lies with the board - there is absolutely nothing that any fan will be able to do. All we can do is wait for Savage to make his move and shake things up. Here's hoping he knows someone that would make a good director of football...

You don't really want Savage back again do you? He might try to use his influence and pick the team !!!!

[Yngwie]

If he had picked the team for Brewster we might have done a bit better :004:

[Jay_7]

You don't really want Savage back again do you? He might try to use his influence and pick the team !!!!

:D Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my post. Anything is better than the sheer incompetence we have infecting our board room at the moment.

[caleykid1994]

He was offered the most expensive contract the club had ever offered.

Buying that one, are you?

Funny how Dargo was offered this "tremendous" deal yet we still managed to offer Marius more... :D

Was Savage even at ICT when Dargo was here?

[ictchris]

The main point where our performance started to go downhill was the summer of 2007. We had finished strongly but lost two talismanic players, Darren Dods and Craig Dargo. Neither of those players were replaced. From memory the only defender we signed that summer was Steven Watt and the strikers we brought in were Dean McDonald and Marius Niculae. McDonald was a total failure and Niculae wasn't the type of striker we needed. When we had Dargo in the side he offered us a pacy outball, Niculae was a more cultured player but lacked speed (probably due to injuries).

If we had bought better in that transfer window I think we'd still be in the SPL. I don't think we actually bought a defender anywhere near as good as Dods until we got Mihadjuks earlier this year! Considering that everyone knew Dods would be off in late 2006 that's absolutely disgraceful. I still don't think we have enough pace in the side, hopefully Imrie or Eric can offer us this when they get to full fitness.

I don't buy all the saviour talk about Alan Savage either. He was chairman during that transfer window, wasn't he?

[Alex MacLeod]

The main point where our performance started to go downhill was the summer of 2007. We had finished strongly but lost two talismanic players, Darren Dods and Craig Dargo. Neither of those players were replaced. From memory the only defender we signed that summer was Steven Watt and the strikers we brought in were Dean McDonald and Marius Niculae. McDonald was a total failure and Niculae wasn't the type of striker we needed. When we had Dargo in the side he offered us a pacy outball, Niculae was a more cultured player but lacked speed (probably due to injuries).

If we had bought better in that transfer window I think we'd still be in the SPL. I don't think we actually bought a defender anywhere near as good as Dods until we got Mihadjuks earlier this year! Considering that everyone knew Dods would be off in late 2006 that's absolutely disgraceful. I still don't think we have enough pace in the side, hopefully Imrie or Eric can offer us this when they get to full fitness.

I don't buy all the saviour talk about Alan Savage either. He was chairman during that transfer window, wasn't he?

Didn't we also bring in Don Cowie that summer?

[stevico1]

I just dont see the point in these "Where did it all go wrong " posts they've been done to death theres nothing anyone can do to change it so move on .

We need to concentrate on the here & now !

By identifying where it's all gone wrong - we are identifying who is to blame. IMO the manager is not to blame. Blame lies squarely at the board.

Unfortunately as the blame lies with the board - there is absolutely nothing that any fan will be able to do. All we can do is wait for Savage to make his move and shake things up. Here's hoping he knows someone that would make a good director of football...

You don't really want Savage back again do you? He might try to use his influence and pick the team !!!!

Well if he was picking it I would like to know who was picking it when he left as whoever it was made a real mess of it.

[CaleyD]

It all started going downhill when we were persuaded to "sell" our stadium on the cheap. At the time we were told the debt was hindering investment from other people and this would clear the way and allow money to come in....where's all the investment that was promised?

From then it's been a catalogue of poor, bad, late decisions and in some cases no decisions (or planning) at all.

We have a boardroom that are totally anonymous, and other than George Fraser and Grassa Bennet most of them could sit next to most fans at a game and they'd never know who they were. They have lost touch with the day to day running of the club, the fans and seem to be taking orders from a man who only appears to have been bleeding the club dry in the last 7 years or so.

It's all fair and well saying we've not signed the right players, or we've let players go we should have kept etc, but it doesn't matter who the manager is if he's not being given sufficient funds/backing to make things happen. The same goes for those running the club on a day to day basis, it doesn't matter how willing they are to do things, they take their orders from up stairs and if they don't have any support or backing from there then they are just peeing into the wind.

[ictchris]

The main point where our performance started to go downhill was the summer of 2007. We had finished strongly but lost two talismanic players, Darren Dods and Craig Dargo. Neither of those players were replaced. From memory the only defender we signed that summer was Steven Watt and the strikers we brought in were Dean McDonald and Marius Niculae. McDonald was a total failure and Niculae wasn't the type of striker we needed. When we had Dargo in the side he offered us a pacy outball, Niculae was a more cultured player but lacked speed (probably due to injuries).

If we had bought better in that transfer window I think we'd still be in the SPL. I don't think we actually bought a defender anywhere near as good as Dods until we got Mihadjuks earlier this year! Considering that everyone knew Dods would be off in late 2006 that's absolutely disgraceful. I still don't think we have enough pace in the side, hopefully Imrie or Eric can offer us this when they get to full fitness.

I don't buy all the saviour talk about Alan Savage either. He was chairman during that transfer window, wasn't he?

Didn't we also bring in Don Cowie that summer?

Yeah, I was going to add that - if it wasn't for us signing COwie and Gretna getting promoted that season, we could have been playing in the First Division last year.

[ictchris]

It all started going downhill when we were persuaded to "sell" our stadium on the cheap. At the time we were told the debt was hindering investment from other people and this would clear the way and allow money to come in....where's all the investment that was promised?

From then it's been a catalogue of poor, bad, late decisions and in some cases no decisions (or planning) at all.

We have a boardroom that are totally anonymous, and other than George Fraser and Grassa Bennet most of them could sit next to most fans at a game and they'd never know who they were. They have lost touch with the day to day running of the club, the fans and seem to be taking orders from a man who only appears to have been bleeding the club dry in the last 7 years or so.

It's all fair and well saying we've not signed the right players, or we've let players go we should have kept etc, but it doesn't matter who the manager is if he's not being given sufficient funds/backing to make things happen. The same goes for those running the club on a day to day basis, it doesn't matter how willing they are to do things, they take their orders from up stairs and if they don't have any support or backing from there then they are just peeing into the wind.

If you are talking about the stadium sale made when David Sutherland took over the club, have Tullochs not invested over half a million pounds in the club since then? Also, in what way would you say that Sutherland has been bleeding the club dry?

[DornochJAGGIE]

Two words... Craig Brewster

[starchief]

I was just thinking, if Brew had been kicked out before Xmas, then we could have had this season with:

Esson

Tokely Mihadjuks Munro Hastings

Morais Kerr Black Imrie

Foran Rooney

and that's without any further buys. Given how poor the teams are in the SPL this season*, I think that's a pretty good team. An extra striker/ wide midfielder and I doubt we'd even be struggling against relegation.

*I struggle to think of a poorer time for Scottish football. Motherwell, Aberdeen, Falkirk - all substantially poorer than last year.

[Huisdean]

In my opinion, it started just over 2 years ago when Charlie started the season as manager (not blaming Charlie by the way). It was obvious that the team needed strengthening and some players , who had served us well in the past, were becoming no longer automatic first team choices (or shouldn't have been).

This was compounded when Charlie resigned and Brewster took over again. More expert posters on here know more about what is happening at board level but whether money was made available I don't know but we should have started rebuilding the team then from a position of strength not weakness as it eventually became.

I also really wonder what the baord actually do and would struggle to name any of them other than George Fraser and Grassa (is he a member of the board?). I think Grass seriously needs to reconsider his position as I genuinely don't think he has the experience and qualifications for the job he was/is now doing. How did he become the Director of Football ffs.

[Jay_7]

I also really wonder what the baord actually do and would struggle to name any of them other than George Fraser and Grassa (is he a member of the board?). I think Grass seriously needs to reconsider his position as I genuinely don't think he has the experience and qualifications for the job he was/is now doing. How did he become the Director of Football ffs.

A list of those with the clubs blood on their hands...

George Fraser

Graham Bennet

Sandy Catto

David Cameron

Willie Finlayson

Ian MacDonald

These are at least the folk that can be held accountable. The actual perpetrator who it appears can't be touched by mortals is David Sutherland.

Grassa became DoF by having played football (at Highland League level) and is good personal friends with David Sutherland. They appear to be the prerequisites for the role.

[caleykid1994]

I was just thinking, if Brew had been kicked out before Xmas, then we could have had this season with:

Esson

Tokely Mihadjuks Munro Hastings

Morais Kerr Black Imrie

Foran Rooney

and that's without any further buys. Given how poor the teams are in the SPL this season*, I think that's a pretty good team. An extra striker/ wide midfielder and I doubt we'd even be struggling against relegation.

*I struggle to think of a poorer time for Scottish football. Motherwell, Aberdeen, Falkirk - all substantially poorer than last year.

true but id still have Hayes over Morais any day and plus we'd maybe still have Vigurs and Wood seeing as they have played the odd game

[ictchris]

To be fair, if the board were to defend themselves what they would say is that most of the current regime have been in place for the most successful period in our clubs history, when we've finished higher in the league than we ever have done, when we've won promotion, won cups, made money from transfers, built an SPL compliant stadium and turned profits on a semi-regular basis. I don't think that our club are run in the most efficient way possible and there are issues with much of what has gone on (mainly the entire Niculae fiasco from start to finish) but to listen to some posters on here we are at death's door.

One thing that I hope people don't pin their hopes on is someone doing the mythic 'putting money into the club' act - that simply doesn't work for clubs like us. You could argue it doesn't work for any club but that's another story.

[WYNESS101]

From memory the only defender we signed that summer was Steven Watt.

Thought he was on loan to us from swansea never new we bought him

[Renegade]

Indeed he was loaned in. He then got injured and they released him from his contract.

[Renegade]

The seeds of it all going wrong were planted when Brewster was re-hired. The major blow was when Park went.