What are you going to do?

[old caley girl]

18 minutes ago, Scotty said:

For me, I think the best option - whether some agree with the organisation and its current leadership or not - is to make the Supporters' Trust "strong and relevant". Call out that statement for the BS it is!! An inbuilt voting share of 10% plus the potential to have other supporters to perhaps proxy their personal shareholdings to the Trust may be the quickest and possibly most effective way to have a voice heard. 

I hear the arguments made, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but for those who decry the lack of communication from the club, then the Supporters Trust is at least communicating on here in this forum, and has been reasonably often, as well as the subforum they asked us to setup (https://caleythistleonline.com/forum/152-supporters-trust/) and it should be noted that they also just setup their own feedback forum on the back of the report: https://www.ictsupporterstrust.org/forum

Only issue I have is I don't use credit card for personal online purchases and there does not appear to be a PayPal or alternate payment option otherwise I would be reporting now that I have joined already because the 'strong and relevant' comment has tipped the scales for me.    

I think they use stripe Scooty which I believe is similar to PayPal? 

[The Mantis]

24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

For me, I think the best option - whether some agree with the organisation and its current leadership or not - is to make the Supporters' Trust "strong and relevant". Call out that statement for the BS it is!! An inbuilt voting share of 10% plus the potential to have other supporters to perhaps proxy their personal shareholdings to the Trust may be the quickest and possibly most effective way to have a voice heard. 

I hear the arguments made, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but for those who decry the lack of communication from the club, then the Supporters Trust is at least communicating on here in this forum, and has been reasonably often, as well as the subforum they asked us to setup (https://caleythistleonline.com/forum/152-supporters-trust/) and it should be noted that they also just setup their own feedback forum on the back of the report: https://www.ictsupporterstrust.org/forum

Only issue I have is I don't use credit card for personal online purchases and there does not appear to be a PayPal or alternate payment option otherwise I would be reporting now that I have joined already because the 'strong and relevant' comment has tipped the scales for me.    

I’m a member of the Supporters Trust because despite all the criticism and objections to its purpose, every little helps (blatant cringy Tescotown reference). I suppose that not living in the Sneck skews my viewpoint as there’s hardly anybody I don’t get on with so there’s no personal politics involved.

[Yngwie]

6 hours ago, STFU said:

The Youth setup, I believe, is now a separate entity from the club and does not draw any financial resource from it.  The same goes for our Community section.  The club can take little/no credit for that these days (other than use if the name), but they do

Noting that the concert company was also a separate entity from the club, that’s a screeching u-turn you’ve made on the club being responsible for separate but connected entities!

[STFU]

1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

Noting that the concert company was also a separate entity from the club, that’s a screeching u-turn you’ve made on the club being responsible for separate but connected entities!

No.  What I'm saying is, they can't have it both ways.

[CaleyCanary]

What a depressing thread to read. I was down in the dumps enough as it was, however, it’s highlighted some important issues so the original question is fair and relevant.

I haven’t bought any merch this year but I didn’t last year either. This had nothing to do with any attempt at direct action to voice my displeasure/concerns about how the club is being run, instead it was purely because I can’t afford to buy the stuff at the moment. If I did have the spare cash to do so then I still would as I don’t see how withholding any funds helps the club out of the situation we’re in. If I lived locally again would I buy a season ticket if I could afford it? Tbh, possibly not, but I’d like to think I wouldn’t give up on the team on the park.

So what action can I take? Well I’m going to add my support to the ST and see if I can give them the shares I bought donkeys years ago when I was flush. STFU, I don’t fully get your beef with the ST but respect your views. I’m afraid I’m one of those people who is unable to ‘read a room’ or understand the political machinations of the infighting that has taken place over the years at the club. I naively plod along thinking everyone has the same interests and goals with the best interests of the club at heart. Of course, personal agendas, greed and the self-importance of certain personalities are always lurking in the background, I just don’t understand it so don’t get involved. 

It seems to me that a stronger and more influential ST with a louder voice is the best way forward for the fans. Might not be the best option, I don’t really know, but I get the impression that they are genuine and hardworking folk with a helluva lot more integrity than those running the club so they get my respect and support.

[big cherly]

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

For me, I think the best option - whether some agree with the organisation and its current leadership or not - is to make the Supporters' Trust "strong and relevant". Call out that statement for the BS it is!! An inbuilt voting share of 10% plus the potential to have other supporters to perhaps proxy their personal shareholdings to the Trust may be the quickest and possibly most effective way to have a voice heard. 

I hear the arguments made, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but for those who decry the lack of communication from the club, then the Supporters Trust is at least communicating on here in this forum, and has been reasonably often, as well as the subforum they asked us to setup (https://caleythistleonline.com/forum/152-supporters-trust/) and it should be noted that they also just setup their own feedback forum on the back of the report: https://www.ictsupporterstrust.org/forum

Only issue I have is I don't use credit card for personal online purchases and there does not appear to be a PayPal or alternate payment option otherwise I would be reporting now that I have joined already because the 'strong and relevant' comment has tipped the scales for me.    

Ok Scotty  

Sound case and reasoning behind all groups back the Trust route. It’s open however on a few fronts for me. So respectfully my questions to you are:

1) what is the acceptable criteria to measure against for implementing change with the club powers 

2) how long is the period to wait to measure any change / improvement.

3) what’s plan b 

bc

[+DoofersDad]

21 hours ago, STFU said:

I don't have the time to give to, or faith in, the Supporters Trust.  Sadly they exhibit many of the things we see in the club.  An anonymous leader who only seems happy to put their name/face to the successes (the survey results), a lack of connect with the fanbase, the poor us "we're only a small team trying hard" excuse given whenever challenged, etc. 

One thing the Trust exhibits which the Club does not is a democratically elected Board. If you and other fans are unhappy with the current Trust Board, you and they are free to join the Trust, put yourselves up for election and/or vote for others who would also like to see a change.  By voting with your feet, you are, in effect, voting for a continuation of the very thing you are complaining about.  The fact is, that the 6 current members of the Trust Board are the only supporters of this Club who currently demonstrate the willingness to take on the responsibility and accountability that being on the Trust Board entails. They have also ensured that the Supporters Trust together with the 10% voting right in the Club on behalf of supporters continues to exist.  But the future direction and success of the Trust is not going to be dictated by the current Board members, it will be dictated by the views and the numbers of those fans who join the Trust and express their views through it.  If some fans don't want to be part of a collective voice, that's up to them.

The Trust Board is also more accessible than the Club. They have a desk in the Sports Bar and members of the Trust Board are present there before most home matches and are available for anybody who wants to have a chat.  In addition if you email the Trust, you are likely to get a response – unlike sending an email to the Clubs SLO address.

23 hours ago, big cherly said:

 

Their are three options as I see it to influence the ICT power holders 

1) Keep things as they are and continue to support and fully back and finance the status quo and hope things improve.

2) Hope that an Alan Savage like saviour with a big bag of money takes over and invests heavily in the club and ground.

3) Enough fans rally behind a change campaign and make moves to implement change.

 

I’m in the last camp, although as I explained earlier, it’s the slow train route for me as I think it’s the more sound route! 
 

You’re clearly in the ST route. I respect that but I don’t agree with it as it’s a retread of an already limited structure that the powers have shown to ignore. The ME survey was nice but in my opinion says a lot of stuff that any clubs fans would say! Respectively, it would not influence the power players except on the periphery.

 

If you feel that a change campaign is the best way forward, then the best way for that to be successful must be for it to be done through the Supporters Trust. If enough people want a change campaign, there will be enough people to make that the strategy of the Trust. As I said above, the Trust is a democratic supporters body and as such, any campaign will be far more successful as part of the Trust strategy than as a separate group working against the wishes of the recognised democratic supporters body.  Having a campaign quite separate from the wishes of the Trust would be playing into the hands of certain people in the Club who are quite happy to encourage a divide and rule situation. As supporters, we need to be as united as possible in order to engage constructively with the club in addressing the concerns of supporters.

On 8/9/2023 at 12:34 AM, Fraz said:

 

However given that they ignore (like Robbo1985 has stated above) communication from individual fans and from the ST there's no way they will listen to anyone in any circumstances unless it suits them imo. 

The Matchday survey could be a changing point in the Club's attitude. It was encouraging that in the P&J article, the Club was quoted as saying that the 300 or so fans who completed the survey should be seen as a reasonable cross-section.  We need to build on this. If the club is sincere in this view, then they will take the results of the survey more seriously. This is why it is so important for more people to join the Trust so that Trust membership is at a level of at least the number who completed the survey. Clearly, the more members the Trust has, the more representative it becomes and the harder it will be for the club to ignore. The survey therefore represents the best opportunity fans have had for many a year to get the Club to engage constructively in addressing fans' concerns. To be successful, it really is important that Trust membership increases significantly and that a good few more folk show a willingness to get actively involved in supporting the expressed views of the fans.

Of course, the club might just decide to ignore the Trust and the fans they represent, but it makes sense to give them every opportunity to engage. If they choose not to, then it may well be that the kind of active protest campaign that Big Cherly advocates would begin to find more favour and could become the Trusts strategy too. Either way success is far more likely if campaigns are the strategy of a recognised supporters body and led by democratically elected fans representatives.

 

[Scotty]

4 hours ago, big cherly said:

Ok Scotty  

Sound case and reasoning behind all groups back the Trust route. It’s open however on a few fronts for me. So respectfully my questions to you are:

1) what is the acceptable criteria to measure against for implementing change with the club powers 

2) how long is the period to wait to measure any change / improvement.

3) what’s plan b 

bc

1. no idea
2. no idea
3. no idea

From a personal point of view, I think most people would notice any improvements just as we see the opposite right now. For me, if I see incremental improvements based on changing behaviour (rather than one-offs), signs that we are moving in the right direction, then that might start to satisfy 1 & 2 for me. For others, what they want to see may be different. In some ways, that's where the survey comes into play. It's a representative document with a broad cross section of respondents so if the club want to sit down with the ST and discuss how things can improve and set "SMART" goals then I am fine with that.   Plan 'B' no idea, but I hope no-one really has to look to that as that would indicate the club are continuing to ignore the very real concerns of their shareholders. 

 

I always remember this (or similar) graphic from a training session decades ago where I was encouraged to set realistic and measurable goals - I try to stick to that to this day .... 

  

 

 

[big cherly]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

1. no idea
2. no idea
3. no idea

From a personal point of view, I think most people would notice any improvements just as we see the opposite right now. For me, if I see incremental improvements based on changing behaviour (rather than one-offs), signs that we are moving in the right direction, then that might start to satisfy 1 & 2 for me. For others, what they want to see may be different. In some ways, that's where the survey comes into play. It's a representative document with a broad cross section of respondents so if the club want to sit down with the ST and discuss how things can improve and set "SMART" goals then I am fine with that.   Plan 'B' no idea, but I hope no-one really has to look to that as that would indicate the club are continuing to ignore the very real concerns of their shareholders. 

 

I always remember this (or similar) graphic from a training session decades ago where I was encouraged to set realistic and measurable goals - I try to stick to that to this day .... 

  

 

 

Yes thank you,

Thats my problem with it. My problem,  but until someone provides me with achievable targets then I remain out with the trust the trust route. 
 

bc 

[Scotty]

3 hours ago, big cherly said:

until someone provides me with achievable targets then I remain out with the trust the trust route. 

And that's the catch 22. The club will not set "achievable targets" with some random person behind an internet pseudonym, even if that person decided that they would longer be anonymous. So that begs the question on just who could get them to sit down and set some targets. Whether you like/dislike, trust/distrust the ST or anyone on the board (as is your right), it doesn't really change the fact that this is the most likely body with a chance to galvanise support from a wide spectrum and unite fans to get something done and hold the feet of those who are currently unaccountable and increasingly aloof, to the fire.   The Trust could identify and discuss Specific, Measurable, and Attainable items from the survey or other feedback that are Relevant to the support and agree a Timeline with the club to hit certain milestones or benchmarks. Thats S.M.A.R.T.

If the same body can increase membership and voting share whilst doing this, then they do become more and more "strong and relevant" and let's face it, they stand more chance of that than any of us do as individuals (unless someone has an Uncle Roy sized wallet?). If people have an issue with giving the current board of the Trust this responsibility, then as has been mentioned already, anyone is free to stand/serve or influence the policy through participation. However, it's like every other volunteer body ICT has ever had, it's not hard to get on the committee, because not enough people are willing to get involved ... it is harder to get off the committee. I was on the predecessor of this back in the early 2000s. I had to emigrate for my resignation to be accepted [joke - mostly]    

On a personal level, I am going to break my own online rules and use credit card to join since I can't use alternate payment options and will be happy to proxy my tiny shareholding to them should they want this for future meetings. I personally will also hold the Trust accountable in their own right using the same 'SMART' process. If they set goals with the club, then i would expect them to do their darndest to achieve those goals, and if they don't then I may choose not to renew membership and/or revoke my proxy. The aim here is to get the club listening and pointing in the right direction again, and however we can get that done is great. If anyone has other suggestions or better plans or simply doesn't want to place any faith in the trust, that is your right and I respect that. When it comes down to it, we are all ICT fans, and we all want what's best for the club and that is for us to be heading up the table not down, playing good football, and being fiscally responsible off the pitch while also having a social conscience and community focus. We have lost a lot of that in the last few years so getting some of that back would soon begin to turn the tide.    

 

[big cherly]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

And that's the catch 22. The club will not set "achievable targets" with some random person behind an internet pseudonym, even if that person decided that they would longer be anonymous. So that begs the question on just who could get them to sit down and set some targets. Whether you like/dislike, trust/distrust the ST or anyone on the board (as is your right), it doesn't really change the fact that this is the most likely body with a chance to galvanise support from a wide spectrum and unite fans to get something done and hold the feet of those who are currently unaccountable and increasingly aloof, to the fire.   The Trust could identify and discuss Specific, Measurable, and Attainable items from the survey or other feedback that are Relevant to the support and agree a Timeline with the club to hit certain milestones or benchmarks. Thats S.M.A.R.T.

If the same body can increase membership and voting share whilst doing this, then they do become more and more "strong and relevant" and let's face it, they stand more chance of that than any of us do as individuals (unless someone has an Uncle Roy sized wallet?). If people have an issue with giving the current board of the Trust this responsibility, then as has been mentioned already, anyone is free to stand/serve or influence the policy through participation. However, it's like every other volunteer body ICT has ever had, it's not hard to get on the committee, because not enough people are willing to get involved ... it is harder to get off the committee. I was on the predecessor of this back in the early 2000s. I had to emigrate for my resignation to be accepted [joke - mostly]    

On a personal level, I am going to break my own online rules and use credit card to join since I can't use alternate payment options and will be happy to proxy my tiny shareholding to them should they want this for future meetings. I personally will also hold the Trust accountable in their own right using the same 'SMART' process. If they set goals with the club, then i would expect them to do their darndest to achieve those goals, and if they don't then I may choose not to renew membership and/or revoke my proxy. The aim here is to get the club listening and pointing in the right direction again, and however we can get that done is great. If anyone has other suggestions or better plans or simply doesn't want to place any faith in the trust, that is your right and I respect that. When it comes down to it, we are all ICT fans, and we all want what's best for the club and that is for us to be heading up the table not down, playing good football, and being fiscally responsible off the pitch while also having a social conscience and community focus. We have lost a lot of that in the last few years so getting some of that back would soon begin to turn the tide.    

 

I’ll leave the last word with you! Too much reasoning for me!! 
bc 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Too much treasoning

[Morgan Spice]

Gardiner is a little weasel. Him and Dodds need binned asap. He seems best mates with our chairman though who promised fan communication was going to improve from the previous regime but it's gone way worse.

[DWH]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:24 PM, Morgan Spice said:

Gardiner is a little weasel. Him and Dodds need binned asap. He seems best mates with our chairman though who promised fan communication was going to improve from the previous regime but it's gone way worse.

That's how I believe things are : unless there is a change of ownership, it seems we are stuck with both...................

Gardiner seems to enjoy his status but it would appear he has little or no interest in the club's great history or for that matter it's future....

[STFU]

2 hours ago, DWH said:

That's how I believe things are : unless there is a change of ownership, it seems we are stuck with both...................

Gardiner seems to enjoy his status but it would appear he has little or no interest in the club's great history or for that matter it's future....

Who do you think owns the club?

[caley1]

5 hours ago, DWH said:

That's how I believe things are : unless there is a change of ownership, it seems we are stuck with both...................

Gardiner seems to enjoy his status but it would appear he has little or no interest in the club's great history or for that matter it's future....

It’s all about him ! loves his title but has failed miserably at his job .  Wonder how much he is taking out of the club and if anything he has done that has actually generated money for the club ?? Don’t even mention the concert fiasco .

[+snorbens_caleyman]

2 hours ago, STFU said:

Who do you think owns the club?

There's a list of shareholders here - https://pomanda.com/company/SC149117/inverness-thistle-and-caledonian-f.c.-limited - but how complete, accurate and up-to-date it is, I have no idea.  The figures add up to a little over 80%.

[Robert]

7 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

There's a list of shareholders here - https://pomanda.com/company/SC149117/inverness-thistle-and-caledonian-f.c.-limited - but how complete, accurate and up-to-date it is, I have no idea.  The figures add up to a little over 80%.

The summary of the accounts further down the page, whilst nothing we didn’t know, highlights the gravity of the financial situation.

February will be interesting if the next accounts are lodged on time. 

[Northern_jaggie]

92 employees? Wow.  Only 11 on the park at one time, if you get the football right then everything gets better.

I’ve moved from Inverness recently so very little chance to go to games now. I bought the replica kit for my wee one and went to a couple of games this season before moving, but the saddest thing personally for me was not feeling like I would miss ICT games as things are. 
 

I think the club should engage directly and regularly with fans on this forum. Dynamic dialogue not static statements. 
 

I dearly miss the online streaming service, a problem not just ICT related which I appreciate. 

 

I filled out the fans survey. If we are in peril of relegation near Christmas I’d join a protest, but I’ll likely sit tight if we are mid table or above. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Northern_jaggie

[caley1]

16 minutes ago, Northern_jaggie said:

92 employees? Wow.  Only 11 on the park at one time, if you get the football right then everything gets better.

I’ve moved from Inverness recently so very little chance to go to games now. I bought the replica kit for my wee one and went to a couple of games this season before moving, but the saddest thing personally for me was not feeling like I would miss ICT games as things are. 
 

I think the club should engage directly and regularly with fans on this forum. Dynamic dialogue not static statements. 
 

I dearly miss the online streaming service, a problem not just ICT related which I appreciate. 

 

I filled out the fans survey. If we are in peril of relegation near Christmas I’d join a protest, but I’ll likely sit tight if we are mid table or above. 

Like we have done the past 2 years ? Not a thing has changed . Playing the same crap then as he’s doing now and talking the same dribble week in week out . Way past time for a change he has shown he is NO coach . 

[caley100]

92 employee's?  Wow    I'd like to see the breakdown of that!!!!   

[RiG]

That has to include the ball boys / girls. 

[old caley girl]

4 hours ago, RiG said:

That has to include the ball boys / girls. 

I'd assume it includes matchday staff such as servery staff, ticket staff and blue jacket stewards? Not all will do every game so probably a pool of folk on the payroll? 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

8 hours ago, caley100 said:

92 employee's?  Wow    I'd like to see the breakdown of that!!!!   

Sure - but look along to the right at the pre-pandemic numbers.

And only 70 in May 2021 suggests that quite a number of people are employed for purposes associated with match-day crowds.

Edited August 18, 2023 by snorbens_caleyman

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I am going to make the most of it and enjoy this feckin Saturday