2-0 Up at halftime. what would you have done?

[clacher_holiday2]

A better question would be 'What would you have done when Dundee made it 2-1?'.

As has been said, there wasnt alot there needing changed at HT, the players fitness shouldnt have been an issue when thinking of subs as the phsychological boost from the scoreboard wouldve had them buzzing.

At 2-1, changes had to be made instantly to kill Dundees spirits and lift our own, why our players looked surprised I still dont know, they didnt react at all, they hadnt been prepared.

[Harry Chibber]

A better question would be 'What would you have done when Dundee made it 2-1?'.

As has been said, there wasnt alot there needing changed at HT, the players fitness shouldnt have been an issue when thinking of subs as the phsychological boost from the scoreboard wouldve had them buzzing.

At 2-1, changes had to be made instantly to kill Dundees spirits and lift our own, why our players looked surprised I still dont know, they didnt react at all, they hadnt been prepared.

Ok then, what would you have done at 2-1?

I think the point I was raising (or trying to) from this thread is, as disappointing as the result was I don't think Butcher did much wrong! Although we don't know what went on in the team talk, the team was set up perfectly - justified by the first half performance. When we went 1 down it made sense to bring Sanchez off and put Cox on to offer more stability to the midfield. Odhiambo could have come on earlier but who do you replace him with? Hayes - probably our best player on the day, Rooney - leaves us with no physical present upfront & he was playing well, Foran - probably would have been my choice but can you imagine his reaction?? Duncan or Proctor - doesn't make much sense when you are a goal up

[absent friend]

A better question would be 'What would you have done when Dundee made it 2-1?'.

As has been said, there wasnt alot there needing changed at HT, the players fitness shouldnt have been an issue when thinking of subs as the phsychological boost from the scoreboard wouldve had them buzzing.

At 2-1, changes had to be made instantly to kill Dundees spirits and lift our own, why our players looked surprised I still dont know, they didnt react at all, they hadnt been prepared.

This is the type of statement that really riles me!!!

A team of professional footballers and somewhere on this thread it is stated that they were the more 'mature' team and guess what? The manager did not prepare them for the opposition scoring a goal.

How sad that the poor wee diddims were not prepared for that! Imagine Butcher's team talk ''Now children (that is aimed at the defence) should any of those bad, bad , Dundee players score a goal, don't look surprised, don't cry, I am not allowed on to give you cuddles, just don't be too hurt.

And as for you( the forwards) don't dare came back and give them too much sympathy - they are big boys now and will just have to get over it themselves. This does not mean they don't feel your support from afar.

Now I have prepared you for a goal being scored against you, go back out onto that wet park and Rossco...you are not allowed that umbrella!!"

.

[ICTFCkev]

A better question would be 'What would you have done when Dundee made it 2-1?'.

As has been said, there wasnt alot there needing changed at HT, the players fitness shouldnt have been an issue when thinking of subs as the phsychological boost from the scoreboard wouldve had them buzzing.

At 2-1, changes had to be made instantly to kill Dundees spirits and lift our own, why our players looked surprised I still dont know, they didnt react at all, they hadnt been prepared.

This is the type of statement that really riles me!!!

A team of professional footballers and somewhere on this thread it is stated that they were the more 'mature' team and guess what? The manager did not prepare them for the opposition scoring a goal.

How sad that the poor wee diddims were not prepared for that! Imagine Butcher's team talk ''Now children (that is aimed at the defence) should any of those bad, bad , Dundee players score a goal, don't look surprised, don't cry, I am not allowed on to give you cuddles, just don't be too hurt.

And as for you( the forwards) don't dare came back and give them too much sympathy - they are big boys now and will just have to get over it themselves. This does not mean they don't feel your support from afar.

Now I have prepared you for a goal being scored against you, go back out onto that wet park and Rossco...you are not allowed that umbrella!!"

.

B) Think AF's lost the plot completely..

Agree with Clacher that we should have had a game plan, or at least the slightest clue what to do, if and when Scumdee got a goal back.

[absent friend]

Agree with Clacher that we should have had a game plan, or at least the slightest clue what to do, if and when Scumdee got a goal back.

Clacher whatever you have, it is contagious! Here's another one with your problem!

Are you both suggesting we have never lost a goal before so we don't know, as a mature team, how to react when we do?

Rather foolish me thinks!!!

The latter part of Harry's post sums it up I think.

[ICTFCkev]

Agree with Clacher that we should have had a game plan, or at least the slightest clue what to do, if and when Scumdee got a goal back.

Clacher whatever you have, it is contagious! Here's another one with your problem!

Are you both suggesting we have never lost a goal before so we don't know, as a mature team, how to react when we do?

It certainly seemed that way on Sunday. The team didn't know how to react, and has been pointed out in another thread, we seem to be conceding a lot of quickfire goals recently. This would perhaps suggest the team aren't quite sure how to react when conceding rather than hit the Panic button and stop playing football. Something that definitely needs to be worked on methinks.

[absent friend]

It certainly seemed that way on Sunday. The team didn't know how to react, and has been pointed out in another thread, we seem to be conceding a lot of quickfire goals recently. This would perhaps suggest the team aren't quite sure how to react when conceding rather than hit the Panic button and stop playing football. Something that definitely needs to be worked on methinks.

Football is a game between two teams and one team can only play as well as the other lets them.

Sunday we had the first half, they had the second and also the goal that matter!

To talk about panic buttons, stopping playing football, no game plan after losing a goal etc is totally disrespectful of Dundee who came out of the blocks better than us for the second half. End of!

Sunday proved to a lot of us that we at least now have a team that can perform, it is only instilling the confidence in them that this is the case and the results will come.

[Johnboy]

I've watched Sunday's game several times now on Sky+, in an effort to discover what brought about the remarkable transformation (for both teams) from the 1st to the 2nd half.

One thing stands out for me looking at the first half - our back four were immense - all of them pushing up to the halfway line and beyond to support the forwards at every opportunity. This ensured Dundee were kept penned in their own half of the field for most of the half. Bulvitis in particlar must have had his best ever 45 minutes for ICT - he actually had the ball in the net twice, and was unlucky to have his first effort chalked off. Tokely (and Proctor) provided quality support for Hayes on the right, with Gollabeck and Duncan linking well with Foran and Sanchez on the left.

Have to mention Rooney here too, who was like a totally different player with the support and service he received.

It's very hard to say what went wrong in the second half - the back four seldom got close to the halfway line, or were they just not allowed to?

There must be lessons to be learned here - When we were in the SPL we were adept at soaking up pressure, but always ready to hit on the break - the 1-0 win against Rangers at Ibrox was a classic example. We don't seem to be able to do that so effectively now. Mihadjuks was probably a better defender than Bulvitis - I feel that individual players strengths and weaknesses could be better assessed by TB and MM and tactics should be planned accordingly.

[Harry Chibber]

A better question would be 'What would you have done when Dundee made it 2-1?'.

Ok then, what would you have done at 2-1?

Clacher????

[Ronaldo]

I think a real leader on the pitch would have been helpful, someone to get all the guys together and state that a Dundee comeback isn't happening and stops right here.

[Alex MacLeod]

My half time talk would have been about more of the same and for the first five or ten minutes of the second half I thought thats what we were going to get. I would, however, have looked seriously at Jocky's change of formation and counteracted it. I'd likely have taken Sanchez and Duncan off and replaced them with Imrie and Odhiambo and changed the formation to:

Esson

Tokely Bulvitus, Munro, Gollie

Proctor

Hayes, Foran, Imrie

Rooney, Odhiambo

With Proctor being urged to cover every blade of grass around the back line. If that wasn't working take Rooney off and put Cox on alongside Proc. Anything to stop their wide players having space.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Alex MacLeod

[clacher_holiday2]

A better question would be 'What would you have done when Dundee made it 2-1?'.

Ok then, what would you have done at 2-1?

Clacher????

Chill Winston! I'm here..

As soon as Dundee scored the writing was on the wall, I wouldve sent on Odhiambo for Sanchez and pressed home the point of keeping the ball (that means being brave and confident enough to play balls backwards/sideways for a spell, instead of players tryign to find room up front they shouldve been taking the room that was available in our own half)while he chased everything Dundee tried to build at the back, failing that we couldve instructed somebody to start tearing lumps out of their frontline, illegal or not. This attack is the best form of defence stuff posted on here is true in most cases but the emphasis shouldve been placed on consolidation for at least 10 minutes, once the goal went in our players started running around like headless chickens, nobody was supporting anybody else.

IMO that instant change wouldve given us a chance of regrouping, when I say the team wasnt prepared its obvious that no gameplan was laid out for them should they go a goal down, be it go forward or hold back. If everybody knew what they had to do should Dundee score then you wouldve seen one of our players pick the ball out of the net themselves, the subs instantly warming up and whatever positional changes required to be put in place before we had the chance to kick off again, we wouldve re-focused and concentrated as we did in the first half, instead we were all over the place.

You cant possibly be saying that because the team played well in the first half that there should not have been a plan B? The team playing well in the first half, playing well last season, playing well 10 years ago... all things that happened in the past, doesnt matter if the spells of quality football were 15 minutes or a decade ago, we cant look back at them and say things were ok so lets not prepare for the worst. It wasnt as if Dundees first goal was a fluke, they worked the ball into a dangerous position and put it in the net, the only reasons not to change at that point is laziness and complacency.

Edited November 27, 2009 by clacher_holiday2

[StockholmSyndrome]

You cant possibly be saying that because the team played well in the first half that there should not have been a plan B? The team playing well in the first half, playing well last season, playing well 10 years ago... all things that happened in the past, doesnt matter if the spells of quality football were 15 minutes or a decade ago, we cant look back at them and say things were ok so lets not prepare for the worst. It wasnt as if Dundees first goal was a fluke, they worked the ball into a dangerous position and put it in the net, the only reasons not to change at that point is laziness and complacency.

Think you have a good point, Clacher. A well-prepared team would be ready to face up to whatever the other side might throw at it. That was not a well-prepared team in the second half and they bottled it, in spite of the good first half that they'd had.

[stevico1]

My half time talk would have been about more of the same and for the first five or ten minutes of the second half I thought thats what we were going to get. I would, however, have looked seriously at Jocky's change of formation and counteracted it.

That is bang on in my opinion, when they went to 4-3-3 we did nothing to counter it and that cost us the cup after having one hand on it .

Edited November 27, 2009 by stevico1

[Scarlet Pimple]

Absent Friend may be surprised by this support, but he is bang on the money with his various comments.

And he has developed a non-sarcastic, trenchant, pungent sense of humour which tickles my bizarre fancy.

Reminds me a bit of John Clease in his 'Parrot" scene on monty Python. This parrot is gone. He is a moribund parrot and not active. He is a non-parrot. He is in fact a polygon (Unspoken...and a hexagon is a Polly Gone?

Or something like that.

P.S. They underestimated the opposition.

And Iam beginning to wonder about whether Terry really is at fault here for getting it wrong. Some of his decisions, such as putting on Imrie with a couple of minutes to go, seem unfathomable.