May Not Be As Bad As We Think

[caleyrule]

So the Dof F now only works for his expenses. Still a luxury we cannot afford.

Graeme last season was on a salary + expenses last season and his expenses were minimal and they will be the exact same this season as he has been told what he can claim expenses for and it is the same as last season

Plus, are people now happy that the club have announced a statement as people have been continually slagging off the club in the last few days and i have been trying to back the club up, and now i finally hope i few people will lay off the club

[Hiro]

I presume Alec Cleland will be moving into Danny's role as well as keeping all of the duties he currently has?

[collectiveaction]

Yeah Stevie, i would have rather kept Danny at the expense of Mike Smith AND Grassa. Danny is highly regarded.....the other two ICT could manage just fine without IMHO

Bring back Danny!

[caleyrule]

Yeah Stevie, i would have rather kept Danny at the expense of Mike Smith AND Grassa. Danny is highly regarded.....the other two ICT could manage just fine without IMHO

Bring back Danny!

Danny has got a new job at a different club

[L_G]

I presume Alec Cleland will be moving into Danny's role as well as keeping all of the duties he currently has?

I thought that Alec Cleland would have a role, but sadly he has gone too. More like Charlie Christie will fill Dannys boots I would think

[stevico1]

I presume Alec Cleland will be moving into Danny's role as well as keeping all of the duties he currently has?

I thought that Alec Cleland would have a role, but sadly he has gone too. More like Charlie Christie will fill Dannys boots I would think

yes thats how I imagine it will play out as well LG

[Hiro]

I presume Alec Cleland will be moving into Danny's role as well as keeping all of the duties he currently has?

I thought that Alec Cleland would have a role, but sadly he has gone too. More like Charlie Christie will fill Dannys boots I would think

yes thats how I imagine it will play out as well LG

I don't know about anybody else but I feel that the board is being incredibly short-sighted by getting rid (although I'm sure they've probably called it a mutual termination) of both of them. Surely at least one of them should have been kept on considering age-group/youth development is where they've spent all of their careers.

Although in saying that I have no problem if Charlie does step in and fills the now combined role.

[collectiveaction]

Bring back Danny!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Let's not flatter ourselves, its got nothing to do with this forum.

What is true is that the club has been working for weeks (if not months) on the restructuring and going through the proper process of redundancy consultation. Now they have announced the outcome.

Some folk here chose to get themselves into a frenzy about things that may or may not happen, basically assuming the worst of the people in charge.

Dont you feckin believe it B) This is a statement that should have been - and could have been - produced weeks ago - The muppets read this Forum and are trying to save face again. At least it shows that they are learning and communicating. :022:

Why cant they just do it without pressure from this Forum.

[Guest birdog]

At least it shows that they are learning and communicating. :022:

Johndo, of all your posts recently I think this may be the most important statement to come from you. They are learning. These guys are egotistical businessmen who, because of their relative success in their own line of business, have an arrogance about them. They think that they know how to handle all things business but, as you say, they are learning that even though football has become business it is like no other business anywhere. I am hoping that they are indeed learning, I expect vast improvements in the way our club is run and the way that the fans are handled by the club. I am hoping this statement is not just a way of appeasing the fans but if it is the 'muppets' will be found out and we, the fans, will show them the error of their ways, again. It is your decision how you want to play things from now but i am ready to give them the chance to prove they are learning.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

At least it shows that they are learning and communicating. :022:

Johndo, of all your posts recently I think this may be the most important statement to come from you. They are learning. These guys are egotistical businessmen who, because of their relative success in their own line of business, have an arrogance about them. They think that they know how to handle all things business but, as you say, they are learning that even though football has become business it is like no other business anywhere. I am hoping that they are indeed learning, I expect vast improvements in the way our club is run and the way that the fans are handled by the club. I am hoping this statement is not just a way of appeasing the fans but if it is the 'muppets' will be found out and we, the fans, will show them the error of their ways, again. It is your decision how you want to play things from now but i am ready to give them the chance to prove they are learning.

I have always said that Grasser was a true ICT man but out of his depth in the SPL - He has had his ego more inflated than mine !!!

They are learning but they are learning from US - I know that they are scanning this forum and they are ON this Forum - I dont mind muppets as long as they are honest muppets who learn from their mistakes.

Long may the communication continue.

[Alex MacLeod]

I dont think it would have been right or just to produce this statement weeks ago. People had to be spoken to. Positions and laws of employment adhered to. Yes there was a plan in place if relegated but it would have been very wrong to publisize that plan before those affected by it were informed.

We cant afford to run a U-19 squad next season so I can understand letting a couple of coaches go. Danny, apparantly, has chosen to leave to pastures new and was not pushed out.

[stevico1]

. Danny, apparantly, has chosen to leave to pastures new and was not pushed out.

I have heard different Alex but who knows

[CaleyD]

I dont think it would have been right or just to produce this statement weeks ago. People had to be spoken to. Positions and laws of employment adhered to. Yes there was a plan in place if relegated but it would have been very wrong to publisize that plan before those affected by it were informed.

We cant afford to run a U-19 squad next season so I can understand letting a couple of coaches go. Danny, apparantly, has chosen to leave to pastures new and was not pushed out.

The "plan" should have been in place long before the season ended so that staff could (and should) have been told almost immediately what the situation was going to be. They (the club) should have known exactly who was going to have to be let go and which positions would have to be re-evaluated.

Our Chairman and DFS were on the news telling the world that their were going to be redundancies long before staff were put on redundancy notice, so "Laws of Employment" doesn't seem to have been forefront in anyone's thoughts at the time.

The statement from the club is a welcome step in the right direction, but let's not try and turn it into something it is not, or justify the time we've had to wait for it with what is, to be frank, BS excuses. It is what it is, and we just have to hope that as we move forward the club can become more pro-active in giving us news. It's not the solution to all our problems and there's still many things which, IMO, need to change. We've seen glimpses of possible changes for the better in the past which have come to nothing, so I'm not holding my breath, but I am willing to give the club the chance to prove they can start doing things better.

[L_G]

I dont think it would have been right or just to produce this statement weeks ago. People had to be spoken to. Positions and laws of employment adhered to. Yes there was a plan in place if relegated but it would have been very wrong to publisize that plan before those affected by it were informed.

We cant afford to run a U-19 squad next season so I can understand letting a couple of coaches go. Danny, apparantly, has chosen to leave to pastures new and was not pushed out.

Alex, I have to say your desire to put a positive spin on every story regrading ICT is admirable. Some of the decisions publicised have been fairly common knowledge for a few weeks now and could have been publicised earlier if the club had chosen to. I think this would have settled the fans down a little to know that something was being done. I actually agree with IHE that this could well be a result of the unrest shown on this forum, with fans looking for some news. I know that the couldn't publicise things until the staff had been spoken to but they did publicise the fact that there was going to be redundancies without first notifying the staff.

I understand that the funding for the under 19s has now gone, but I'm still disappointed at some of the cuts in the Youth & Community. Danny is a victim of the relegation restructure. He may have finally chosen to go, but I suspect that was rather than accept what was offered to him and his department. He is also a gentleman and if he had something else in the pipeline I believe he would take that and save the jobs of some others in his staff. I am very sorry to see him leave ICT.

I am however happy that this announcement is made and with Terry back next week I think we will start to see some very positive and motivating press and we can all look forward to some fun days out in the 1st division.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

What do you mean - "I actually agree with IHE"

[Guest birdog]

Let's step back and look at things.

People are not happy at th lack of communication with regard to future plans during the earlier stages but as far as I can see the fact that we only handed out 6 month contracts to players back in January was very indicitive as to the way the club's management were thinking. At the time this was slated by us fans as negative and not looking to the future. How could the club win in this situation? If they had publically come out and said the contracts were short because there was a fear of relegation we would have accused them of being resigned to the fact we were to be relegated or worse still that the BoD actually wanted us relegated to the SFL (an accusation banded about here more than once)

LG you attack the club for not publishing their plans but then attack them again for saying there would be redundencies before those whose jobs were in jepordy were told. What exactly do you want from the club?

The way I see it just now is that the club are treating us with kid gloves at the moment, we gave them a bloody nose over Brewster and they are not sure how to treat us to keep us onside. I come to this conclusion because I truly believe that this statement was released before it was intended to be released in response to what looked like another situation brewing on this forum and that is why I firmly believe that things are going to improve, they are watching, they are listening but now they are starting to respond.

I would like it if everyone could calm down until issues raised by our relegation have been wrapped up at the club, then if things look bad we can have our rant.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I wasnt concerned about the contracts - that made sense - but the "panic" buying was mismanagement - allowing a departing manager to buy them was mismanagement - to dismiss the manager in mid January after giving him a vote of confidence was mismanagement. The writing was on the wall and they brought in a "talker / a motivator" who picked up the club but was in a "no win" situation. That was a smart move - their only real one in two seasons - but it could well have been a "saving face " effort for ALL the prior mistakes.

Of course you dont communicate that in advance about redundancies but the peeple in those positions knew that the writing was on the walls. It is the mere fact that they have NOT communicated since the end of the season.

As I said it was a "refreshing" start - again brought forward by Fan Power. Long may it last. Some update on the progress of transfers and contracts would be helpful - i will phone my uncle George.

[CaleyD]

It's this constant "wait and see" approach that really gets up my nose, Birdog. Not just with the club, but with the fans as well.

If you spend your whole time being reactive as opposed to proactive then it's very difficult to drive things forward...that goes for anything, not just football.

The reactive approach to relegation is what we're witnessing now....

• Wait till we're relegated and then make a plan
  
• Wait till that plan is made then do a budget
  
• Wait till the budget is done and decide on redundancies
  
• Wait till fans complain before communicating
  

Aside from having to cram very important decisions into short timescales (a recipe for disaster) were now a month down the line and still playing the "Let's wait and see" game.

The proactive approach would have been....

• Have a plan in place at Christmas every year for what to do if relegated.
  
• Know what your budget is going to be for that plan
  
• Know exactly where job cuts are going to be needed
  
• Be ready to communicate the plan almost immediately
  

Had we done that then instead of being a month down the line with fans shouting for information, we would have been a week down the line, fans would have been encouraged by the quick actions of the club and we might actually have an idea of which direction we should all be pulling.

IMO, the club have got this wrong and it adds to what have been some rather large errors over the years. No single error in the past has brought us to where we are now, but when you take them all together I strongly believe our position was inevitable as things caught up with us. I also don't accept the "hindsight is a wonderful thing" argument because there's people who have been highlighting the fundamental issues with this club for years.....and you know what answer they've been getting from fans time after time?...."Let's wait and see".

[L_G]

Let's step back and look at things.

People are not happy at th lack of communication with regard to future plans during the earlier stages but as far as I can see the fact that we only handed out 6 month contracts to players back in January was very indicitive as to the way the club's management were thinking. At the time this was slated by us fans as negative and not looking to the future. How could the club win in this situation? If they had publically come out and said the contracts were short because there was a fear of relegation we would have accused them of being resigned to the fact we were to be relegated or worse still that the BoD actually wanted us relegated to the SFL (an accusation banded about here more than once)

LG you attack the club for not publishing their plans but then attack them again for saying there would be redundencies before those whose jobs were in jepordy were told. What exactly do you want from the club?

The way I see it just now is that the club are treating us with kid gloves at the moment, we gave them a bloody nose over Brewster and they are not sure how to treat us to keep us onside. I come to this conclusion because I truly believe that this statement was released before it was intended to be released in response to what looked like another situation brewing on this forum and that is why I firmly believe that things are going to improve, they are watching, they are listening but now they are starting to respond.

I would like it if everyone could calm down until issues raised by our relegation have been wrapped up at the club, then if things look bad we can have our rant.

I don't attack the club for not publishing their plans as I wouldn't expect them to do that. In fact that is exactly my point when I said that the chairman was all over the press announcing redundancies without first putting the staff on redundancy notice. Some of the announcements yesterday have been agreed for a few weeks now, but they chose not to share it. That's their perogative. My point was that I believe that it was a direct result of the fans unrest that they chose now to share this information.

I also ended with a positive comment. I think now that they have shown that they are working away behind the scenes they will have installed some confidence in the fans. I'm also sure when TB returns we will be talking about football once again and looking forward.

[Guest birdog]

Johndo after your reaction to the press release yesterday I am purdy shure that you are seeing things in much the same way as me, for now. I am more concerned about those who are still ready to slate the club at every given opportunity. Yes mistakes have been made in the past, big fecking horrible almost unforgivable mistakes but at least there is some effort to make up for those, effort may have been shown in the past and was short lasting but we are in a new phase now, fan power changed the mind of the BoD over Brewster and they know how powerful we can be when we need to be, this is a situation which the BoD have never had to deal with before and I think we should allow them the chance to show they have learned from it, if they have not then we can band together and show them, again, how powerful we really are.

RE Brewster- There is only one thing worse than a bad loser, a bad winner. Fan power may have won that argument but lets not turn into bad winners.

[WYNESS101]

Yeah Stevie, i would have rather kept Danny at the expense of Mike Smith AND Grassa. Danny is highly regarded.....the other two ICT could manage just fine without IMHO

Bring back Danny!

He just left over a week ago

[Guest birdog]

I apologise L_G I read your post after reading another and my train of thought was still there leading me to analyze your words from a different angle, after re-reading your post and your subsequent post I can see that I was miles off the mark.

[Kirishima]

Pleased, of course, that it does cross the mind of the club to keep us informed and that we are a part of the club.

Sceptical, that it wont be the norm. The club have a history of starting and stopping, BB for example.

But positive, undoubtedly, and big thumbs up to George Fraser.

[Alex MacLeod]

From now on I stay out of this particular debate other than to point out this.

Two or three keep saying 'this was common knowledge weeks ago' and 'the club should of informed us weeks ago'. How long is 'weeks ago'?

I realise time can fly and time can go slow but only four weeks ago we were still in the SPL and with a chance of staying in it. Right after the last game George Fraser announced that they had plans to get us back up but that various things would need to be done and various people would need to be spoken to. Personally I think they have done well to get their new structure in place in such a short period.