It's a question of respect!

[collectiveaction]

Can we really respect a manager who turns to the fans and shouts "fcuk off you cant". P.R own goal by Butcher and the beginning of the end. Family club? Remember kids in the stand. On another point do the players still hold hands in a circle in the changing room doing some kind of circle of trust bo***cks? Not really working is it! Maybe next time they should do "ring a ring a rosies" for all the good it does. The writing was on the wall when Vigurs was freed.

[gordyfromsneck]

Can we really respect a manager who turns to the fans and shouts "fcuk off you cant". P.R own goal by Butcher and the beginning of the end. Family club? Remember kids in the stand. On another point do the players still hold hands in a circle in the changing room doing some kind of circle of trust bo***cks? Not really working is it! Maybe next time they should do "ring a ring a rosies" for all the good it does. The writing was on the wall when Vigurs was freed.

Vigurs is a racist thug. Allegedly.

[caleykid1994]

Vigurs is a racist thug. Allegedly.

Did he call someone a gypo?

[Georgeios]

This happend after he was thrown to the side by TB, and I beleve it was not proven and thrown out...

[DornochCaley]

What did Vigurs do?

[Hearach]

depends on what was shouted at Butcher in the first place. And if anyone thinks that Terry Butcher is the only one that swears at football matches then they are living on a different planet. If you don't want kids to hear any swearing then lock them in a soundproofed cupboard.

[RiG]

What did Vigurs do?

Vigurs and his brother are alleged to have been involved in a fight in Aberdeen after a night out.

[davie]

This thread is trash. Vigurs plays for County, I care not what he has said or done. I do care what TB has said though, and I think he's absolutely right in this case. I can think of very few managers who would not have put up with the incessant moaning from the main stand for this length of time. Respect? you've got exactly as much as you deserve mate.

[PullMyFinger]

This thread is trash. Vigurs plays for County, I care not what he has said or done. I do care what TB has said though, and I think he's absolutely right in this case. I can think of very few managers who would not have put up with the incessant moaning from the main stand for this length of time. Respect? you've got exactly as much as you deserve mate.

If you were a teller in a bank and a customer was abusive would you respond in kind? If you did you'd find yourself out of a job or on a disciplinary at the very least. Butcher has lost the dressing room, the support and now he's lost the plot.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

We are all only human - passion and frustration is an explosive mix - who cast the first stone ?

[davie]

This thread is trash. Vigurs plays for County, I care not what he has said or done. I do care what TB has said though, and I think he's absolutely right in this case. I can think of very few managers who would not have put up with the incessant moaning from the main stand for this length of time. Respect? you've got exactly as much as you deserve mate.

If you were a teller in a bank and a customer was abusive would you respond in kind? If you did you'd find yourself out of a job or on a disciplinary at the very least. Butcher has lost the dressing room, the support and now he's lost the plot.

Dude, I don't normally disagree with you but I do on this one. Generalisations don't prove anything, and if I was abused to that degree at work, I'd have the guilty removed before it got near responding. Don't suppose TB's got that luxury.

[PullMyFinger]

This thread is trash. Vigurs plays for County, I care not what he has said or done. I do care what TB has said though, and I think he's absolutely right in this case. I can think of very few managers who would not have put up with the incessant moaning from the main stand for this length of time. Respect? you've got exactly as much as you deserve mate.

If you were a teller in a bank and a customer was abusive would you respond in kind? If you did you'd find yourself out of a job or on a disciplinary at the very least. Butcher has lost the dressing room, the support and now he's lost the plot.

Dude, I don't normally disagree with you but I do on this one. Generalisations don't prove anything, and if I was abused to that degree at work, I'd have the guilty removed before it got near responding. Don't suppose TB's got that luxury.

He is not entitled to turn and abuse his own support either, although some on here think it's ok.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

As I have alluded to before - we cant afford to sack him and he wont resign. Put two and two together.

And who employed him ??

[PullMyFinger]

As I have alluded to before - we cant afford to sack him and he wont resign. Put two and two together.

And who employed him ??

Gross misconduct? Shouldn't cost a penny. MM on the other hand is a different story.

[Alex MacLeod]

Either I was at a different game or I was concentrating too much on the game in hand to hear any abuse directed at Butcher. I did hear someone behind me shout something that Malpas responded to with a f?ck off. To me it seemed that the action of a number of fans walking out is what started Butcher off.

[Harry Chibber]

Is anyone else sick of being called a "family club"??

[Johnboy]

Either I was at a different game or I was concentrating too much on the game in hand to hear any abuse directed at Butcher. I did hear someone behind me shout something that Malpas responded to with a f?ck off. To me it seemed that the action of a number of fans walking out is what started Butcher off.

Apologies if this has already been suggested, but maybe all those (like yourself) who were shocked by what they saw and heard, should unleash a barrage of complaints to the club, from the chairman down to the general manager, and the DoF.

[Johnboy]

Is anyone else sick of being called a "family club"??

We are a family club....

Albeit a dysfunctional one.

[Guest birdog]

Either I was at a different game or I was concentrating too much on the game in hand to hear any abuse directed at Butcher. I did hear someone behind me shout something that Malpas responded to with a f?ck off. To me it seemed that the action of a number of fans walking out is what started Butcher off.

Apologies if this has already been suggested, but maybe all those (like yourself) who were shocked by what they saw and heard, should unleash a barrage of complaints to the club, from the chairman down to the general manager, and the DoF.

If just 2 complaints resulted in "gypogate" then surely the club would have to be seen to respond to any complaint made in this case, if it turns out to be true.

[absent friend]

(1)Can we really respect a manager who turns to the fans and shouts "fcuk off you cant". P.R own goal by Butcher and the beginning of the end. Family club? Remember kids in the stand. (2)On another point do the players still hold hands in a circle in the changing room doing some kind of circle of trust bo***cks? (3)Not really working is it! Maybe next time they should do "ring a ring a rosies" for all the good it does. (4)The writing was on the wall when Vigurs was freed.

(1) I fail to see an 'allegedly' in the above post, so I hope there is proof.

(2) This is a question.

(3) Statement of fact to an unanswered question.

(4) This is the same Vigurs that was crap last Sunday against us and was hooked and not even a sub on Saturday.

[CaleyD]

Was Butcher justified in his outburst? Probably, as there's a number of people who sit in and around that area who do nothing but nip his head/make sarcastic comments EVERY game. This is nothing new, these people/p[eople of this ilk have sat in these areas for as long as football has existed, going out of their way to select seats in this part of the ground to allow them to do it. It is therefore a little hypocritical for them to complain when they get a reaction....in much the same way as I think it's hypocritical for fans to give an opposing player hgrief for 90 minutes and then get all high and mighty when they get a bit of it thrown back at them.

Just because I think it was perhaps justified, does not mean I think it was wise/acceptable. Like it or not, there's certain things that certain people just can't get away with....even if they do have good reason/excuse.

The whole comparison to "Gypsygate" is also nonsense. As I said in the thread on that matter, we don't want to get caught in a "tit for tat" scenario. When you start along that road there's no winners, as the saying goes "be careful what you wish for".

That's not to say that any matter should be swept under the carpet, but it can be dealt with, without it getting silly or out of hand. I wouldn't expect Butcher to apologise for what he said, but perhaps an apology for they way he said it is in order.

As I pointed out in another thread....I believe our problems are in the pressure that's on Butcher and the Team, pressure created by the Boards promises of "bouncing straight back up". We've been seeing how that is impacting on the players all season (especially at home) and I think this is the first signs of the cracks showing with the management.

What's most unfortunate is that it's going to take someone on the Board to come out and say they were/are wrong in the way they are pedalling the clubs aspirations. Whilst it's perfectly acceptable to have aspirations of promotion (I'd be worried if we didn't) it's very, very wrong/stupid/naive to be selling it as a done deal....which is basically what ICT have done.

Fans also have to start thinking for themselves on that subject. Stop being little sheep that just follow, believe and hang on every word they are told by the club. It doesn't take an Einstein to work out that a promise of bouncing straight back that's not backed by any positive actions or investment is an empty promise and we should have/should be adjusting our expectations in light of that.

I want us to be promoted, but that desire is tempered by the realisation that it's not our god given right and the fact that, in reality (despite all the promises) we've not really done anything to build a league winning team. That's not to say that I don't think the current squad are capable....but I know it is going to take everything they have, in every game for the whole season. In essence, we're asking the team to perform above and beyond, we've done it before, but that was in the days when the fans were a little less expectant and far more supportive of the team.....even when things weren't going all that great.

Going back to the OP's question. I don't respect Butcher any less for his outburst. It's perhaps even a good thing to see that he's human like the rest of us and is suffering every bit as much from the poor performances as the fans. However, I will be mightily upset if the fans who are dishing it out choose to complain because of the outburst they provoked...and it was provoked...not just on Saturday, but over the course of the season so far.

[stevico1]

Was Butcher justified in his outburst? Probably, as there's a number of people who sit in and around that area who do nothing but nip his head/make sarcastic comments EVERY game. This is nothing new, these people/p[eople of this ilk have sat in these areas for as long as football has existed, going out of their way to select seats in this part of the ground to allow them to do it. It is therefore a little hypocritical for them to complain when they get a reaction....in much the same way as I think it's hypocritical for fans to give an opposing player hgrief for 90 minutes and then get all high and mighty when they get a bit of it thrown back at them.

Just because I think it was perhaps justified, does not mean I think it was wise/acceptable. Like it or not, there's certain things that certain people just can't get away with....even if they do have good reason/excuse.

The whole comparison to "Gypsygate" is also nonsense. As I said in the thread on that matter, we don't want to get caught in a "tit for tat" scenario. When you start along that road there's no winners, as the saying goes "be careful what you wish for".

That's not to say that any matter should be swept under the carpet, but it can be dealt with, without it getting silly or out of hand. I wouldn't expect Butcher to apologise for what he said, but perhaps an apology for they way he said it is in order.

As I pointed out in another thread....I believe our problems are in the pressure that's on Butcher and the Team, pressure created by the Boards promises of "bouncing straight back up". We've been seeing how that is impacting on the players all season (especially at home) and I think this is the first signs of the cracks showing with the management.

What's most unfortunate is that it's going to take someone on the Board to come out and say they were/are wrong in the way they are pedalling the clubs aspirations. Whilst it's perfectly acceptable to have aspirations of promotion (I'd be worried if we didn't) it's very, very wrong/stupid/naive to be selling it as a done deal....which is basically what ICT have done.

Fans also have to start thinking for themselves on that subject. Stop being little sheep that just follow, believe and hang on every word they are told by the club. It doesn't take an Einstein to work out that a promise of bouncing straight back that's not backed by any positive actions or investment is an empty promise and we should have/should be adjusting our expectations in light of that.

I want us to be promoted, but that desire is tempered by the realisation that it's not our god given right and the fact that, in reality (despite all the promises) we've not really done anything to build a league winning team. That's not to say that I don't think the current squad are capable....but I know it is going to take everything they have, in every game for the whole season. In essence, we're asking the team to perform above and beyond, we've done it before, but that was in the days when the fans were a little less expectant and far more supportive of the team.....even when things weren't going all that great.

Going back to the OP's question. I don't respect Butcher any less for his outburst. It's perhaps even a good thing to see that he's human like the rest of us and is suffering every bit as much from the poor performances as the fans. However, I will be mightily upset if the fans who are dishing it out choose to complain because of the outburst they provoked...and it was provoked...not just on Saturday, but over the course of the season so far.

Don I am not so bothered about his outburst on Sat as I have been known to have my own from time to time so I don't disrespect him for his outburst but do hope he has the decency to apoligise.

Also my opinion of how Butcher is not even slightly affected by the boards ill advised bounce back statements as I never thought we would anyway, my opinion is based on the fact that his signings in general have been dreadful, he is tactically inept and plays very unattractive football.

I also think more people have been swayed by his PR than any statement made by the club.

[Guest birdog]

Good post from Don there but I would like to say that comparisons to "Gypsygate" are justified in my opinion as I was attempting to compare the fact that a minimal amount of complaints made to the club about what is considered to be a racially aggravated breach of the peace (offence if you like) resulted in the club having to take further action, Butcher allegedly committed the offence of breach of the peace by swearing in a raised voice and his swearing having a victim or victims (target or targets might be more appropriate in everyday terms) therefore any complaints would have to be dealt with in a similar manner. If these complaints were to reach the law courts then in a worst case scenario a football banning order could be applied, should he be found guilty. All very much speculation and highly unlikely (I would sincerely hope) but in a very PC world everyone has to be treated in the same manner.

[Renegade]

Butcher's outburst has to be one of the most unprofessional incidents I've ever known of from a football manager. You never see Alex Ferguson turning round and swearing at the Old Trafford support, he might have his own views on them, but he wouldn't embarrass himself with a barage of swear words directed at them. His little outburst strikes me of a manager under pressure. A manager who isn't under pressure doesn't lose his cool like that.

In a way, I'm not really surprised, it's common knowledge that Malpas is an arrogant little man, and Butcher's a bit like that as well. Have a look at some of the choice words about Sydney FC. Sounds a bit bitter to me and again, not very professional, but not surprising. It's always been clear that Butcher has an ego that tied to a basket, he could fly round the world in. Notice as well, he was very quick to say how bad his players were against County and Partick, but when the negativity is on him, he can't handle it.

[tm4tj]

Oh dear, he swore................big deal.

Get over yersels.