Home and Away

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I seem to start off every season with this topic - Once again it looks like we are going to take more points away from home than at home:

I have a slightly different view on it this season but before I gob off - tell me - WHY are we so poor at home ?

[stevico1]

I think its a case of the away teams come here and play more defensively and pack the defence, and at present we don't have the ability or creative players to break them down, away from home the game is more open thus giving our attacking players that bit more space

[kiltarlity]

I agree with stevico1

Edited August 16, 2009 by kiltarlity

[Kylef]

The TCS should be a place that no team likes to come!! Just doesnt happen that way.

[WYNESS101]

You would think with the teams having to get up alot earlier just to travel up to inverness or even dingwall. Sitting in a bus for a number off hours. You would always think that we would get the better of the teams

[AJS]

Can't help but think that this weeks result was may'be down to Terry being away on international duty.

If George Burley goes as manager which i think he will that will only benefit ICT as it means Terry can concentrate solely on Inverness.

[martinskye]

You would think with the teams having to get up alot earlier just to travel up to inverness or even dingwall. Sitting in a bus for a number off hours. You would always think that we would get the better of the teams

On the basis of that theory shouldn't we be picking up less points away from Home, things just don't turn out that way.

[TheKarl]

I think its a case of the away teams come here and play more defensively and pack the defence, and at present we don't have the ability or creative players to break them down, away from home the game is more open thus giving our attacking players that bit more space

Very much agree'd.

Although, on the support side of things, I feel we'll never have the kind of support at home games than we do at home. The travelling fans, make the effort.. and without appearing to be discriminating.. a lot more of them are 'younger' and have a bit of voice in them. where as, at home, from my observations.. a lot of the home stand is filled with those from the Caledonian or Thistle days and rarely raise the noise around the TCS.. either be it singing, chanting.. or just general reaction to the game - Almost watching it.. for the sake of it. I'm not pinpointing anything upon the main stand folk, as it happens in the North too. That's why I feel people always, ALWAYS complain about the atmosphere at home games

And, of course, these days kids grow up to be OF fans for all sorts of rediculous reasons, so untill we start to haul in a brand new, younger - Im 20, when I say young, I'm talking.. how ever young, to there 30's - generation of fans.. of an entire "home" support of "away" supporters.

Just my thoughts.

[caley100]

Its a common occurence that at home the crowd is usually pretty quiet, except for local derbies etc, the crowd at Dunfermline last week were really bad except for a wee gang at the half way line.

Inverness have the same problem where it only seems that section F/G areas making noise, however you cant blame fans for the teams perfomance and their inabilty to score a goal, saturday was a failure caused by the teams failure to break down a defence, in my opinion it was too much change too soon, and nobody able to get behind their defence.

[Guest birdog]

Its a common occurence that at home the crowd is usually pretty quiet,

Too scared to make any form of noise in case the more stoic of the fans do not approve?

[tm4tj]

As an aside, we have this Home and Away thread.........................does that mean that we will have a Neighbours thread when we play County.............or even a Cell Block H when we play Morton

[Guest birdog]

As an aside, we have this Home and Away thread.........................does that mean that we will have a Neighbours thread when we play County.............or even a Cell Block H when we play Morton

:angry: :angry:

Class

[DingwallAway]

Although, on the support side of things, I feel we'll never have the kind of support at home games than we do at home. The travelling fans, make the effort.. and without appearing to be discriminating.. a lot more of them are 'younger' and have a bit of voice in them. where as, at home, from my observations.. a lot of the home stand is filled with those from the Caledonian or Thistle days and rarely raise the noise around the TCS.. either be it singing, chanting.. or just general reaction to the game - Almost watching it.. for the sake of it. I'm not pinpointing anything upon the main stand folk, as it happens in the North too. That's why I feel people always, ALWAYS complain about the atmosphere at home games

And, of course, these days kids grow up to be OF fans for all sorts of rediculous reasons, so untill we start to haul in a brand new, younger - Im 20, when I say young, I'm talking.. how ever young, to there 30's - generation of fans.. of an entire "home" support of "away" supporters.

Totally agree.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I seem to start off every season with this topic - Once again it looks like we are going to take more points away from home than at home:

I have a slightly different view on it this season but before I gob off - tell me - WHY are we so poor at home ?

The slightly different view is that we are far too nervous, negative and defence minded at home - we should just go fer broke - always play 4-4-2 - at least - and attack - Can it get any worse.

HOME - pl 5 w 0 l 3 d 2 f 5 a 10 pts 2 : AWAY pl 5 w 3 l 0 d 2 f 8 a 3 pts 11

[Guest birdog]

I seem to start off every season with this topic - Once again it looks like we are going to take more points away from home than at home:

I have a slightly different view on it this season but before I gob off - tell me - WHY are we so poor at home ?

The slightly different view is that we are far too nervous, negative and defence minded at home - we should just go fer broke - always play 4-4-2 - at least - and attack - Can it get any worse.

HOME - pl 5 w 0 l 3 d 2 f 5 a 10 pts 2 : AWAY pl 5 w 3 l 0 d 2 f 8 a 3 pts 11

I am going to stick my neck out here and post a renegadesque analysis, I am going to say that I believe our players have the ability to be as good as the team that won the first division the last time all we need is a manager who has the balls to go out and attack, let the players feel good about their game, let them play it the way they want to. Perhaps we will ship a load of goals but as long as we score more than we concede we are laughing. Get away from the shut down play of the SPL and send out a team with a First Division growl, get stuck in and fight our way to the Championship instead of trying to pick away at it bit by bit. I am not saying get rid of Butcher, but we need to get him to change his ways.

[WYNESS101]

Home and Away we do it every saturday :D

[RednBlackComeback]

I am going to stick my neck out here and post a renegadesque analysis, I am going to say that I believe our players have the ability to be as good as the team that won the first division the last time all we need is a manager who has the balls to go out and attack, let the players feel good about their game, let them play it the way they want to. Perhaps we will ship a load of goals but as long as we score more than we concede we are laughing. Get away from the shut down play of the SPL and send out a team with a First Division growl, get stuck in and fight our way to the Championship instead of trying to pick away at it bit by bit. I am not saying get rid of Butcher, but we need to get him to change his ways.

I agree. We play with a SPL mentality i.e. we play to try not to lose. In the 1st we need to play to win.

Granted there is a fear factor amongst the players when playing at home. They don't want to try anything fancy in case it doesn't come off and the crowd is on their backs, the home jinx thing is now on their minds every home game, attendances are in freefall and as a result the, once bearly audible, atmosphere is now more silent than ibrox on a champions league night!

[Renegade]

For me, the answer is simple and has been for a long time. ICT are now reminicent of the football that now surrounds Scotland and beyond, they're absolutely petrified to concede. I can remember a time, about 10 years so ago, when ICT used to score left, right and centre at TCS in every game, and under Paterson, they were often dubbed the unofficial title, of the "most entertaining team in Britain". We now have a side, who can't control or pass a ball, let alone attack. I noticed again, as I have in a number of previous, ICT essentially play a style at home, where almost all the players are defenders. Against Dunfermline, only Foran, Imrie and Hayes seemed to be attacking players. A couple, such as Cox and Proctor were sort of in the middle, but the rest (including Tokely, who I would normally class as being in the middle of an attacking and defensive player) were defenders and defenders alone.

Butcher has yet to show me that he has put a team that can play, at least decent football, I am sorry to repeat myself again, but you've got to look at his previous teams to see that he doesn't play good football, thus being sacked a number of times, cause with this system he couldn't get the results, and the same thing happens here. He even said in the midwek interview that he just wants wins and doesn't want to play "pretty football". 4-5-1 up front with a defensive style at home will get ICT nowhere this season, cause the home form is/will be rubbish and can't be sorted soon enough.

[DornochCaley]

Im serious, we need to play with atleast 4 upfront.....Im not crazy...

We currently play with 1 upfront no matter if we mean to play 4-4-2. One of your strikers always get pushed back or pushed to the wings. I think if we play 4-4-2 but have it that our two wingers get forward so its more of a 4-2-4 at times. Thats the way the likes of barca and such play. I know we arnt Barcelona, but its a start!

[Scarlet Pimple]

Bidog

You deserve applause for the best post on this forum for a long time. :021: :021: :021: :021: :021: :021:

The modern game has lost it's way with player permutations that rival stale bread for edibility and excitement.

4 players up front should be the minimum. Five would be better.

Everything that has been said on this thread so far is true :----

Bottle it up, defend and pass back is the order of the day.

No thought of playing flat -out attacking football and leaving two full backs, one centre half and two half-backs to cope with the opposition. Like in the "old" days.

What was wrong with the old permutations anyway--show me what all the modern blackboard changes have accomplished in terms of entertainment for the fan that is so great. Rarely do you see a game with more than two or three goals at the most ..and so on.

But....it will not happen until there are no fans left so don't hold your breath.

Terry Butcher has only one salvation available to him --play flat out attacking fottball and have a minimum of four forwards up at all times. At least if the team goes down he will have given it his all. :025:

[CaleyD]

I think it's a combination of some of the above things....plus one other thing not yet mentioned.

First off, we don't go out at home and get stuck in from the first whistle. We always start off cautiously, perhaps even nervously, and then try and build ourselves into games. As has been said already, we're so scared of conceding that I think we lose sight of the fact that the aim of the game is to score.

Until we get the above sorted out, it's not going to matter a jot what formation we put out there.

The big question is WHY we are this way. Again, as has been said already, I think this is in part down to our 5 seasons in the SPL where survival was so important...more important than gaining an extra place or two...that teams were/are almost forced to play more defensively.

I also think it is, in large part, down to the amount of pressure on the team at home. As I've said many times, on many threads, our fans expect much too much from the team. They are basically lambs being sent to the slaughter when the exit that tunnel at TCS. The Board started it with promises and pledges of "Bouncing Straight Back" and the fans are a little too fickle to realise that whilst they (the Board) were making all the right noises, the noises we perhaps wanted to hear, it takes more than words to compete, let alone be contenders.

I still remember the days when going a goal (or even 2 goals) served to get the fans more and more behind the team. It's quite the opposite these days....not only do we have a more subdued crowd, but we have a crowd who tend to get on the teams backs far too quickly. One thing that really annoys me and does nothing to help is this tendency for our fans to be more worried about what's going on around them, who might be "looking at them", when they their focus should be on supporting the team.

Unfortunately there's no switch than can be flicked to cure things en masse, but we do have the power/option to take responsibility for what we do as individuals. If you're one of the more vocal fans then stop looking around or worrying about what others might be thinking, and if you're one of the lesser vocal fans then sit there and enjoy the game the way you want to and leave the rest to enjoy it the way they want to. Being loud or quiet doesn't make you any better or worse a fan......but stopping/preventing other fans from enjoying the game the way they want to does as it means people are not doing what they should be there to do.....supporting the team.

So......from what I can see, it's a bit of a catch 22. So long as the fans are quick to get on the teams back then they're not going to have the confidence to do anything other than what they are out there doing at the moment, and so long as the team are out there doing what they are doing at the moment, the fans are going to find it hard to change their habits.

No one person has the ability/power to fix everything, but if we each do our bit then things can be changed, and changed for the better. We all have a part to play, and we all need to look at ourselves and what we do, just as much as we might look at others and what they do.....and that goes for the fans, the players, the management team and the club staff and board.

[alternative maryhill]

I think it's a combination of some of the above things....plus one other thing not yet mentioned.

First off, we don't go out at home and get stuck in from the first whistle. We always start off cautiously, perhaps even nervously, and then try and build ourselves into games. As has been said already, we're so scared of conceding that I think we lose sight of the fact that the aim of the game is to score.

Until we get the above sorted out, it's not going to matter a jot what formation we put out there.

The big question is WHY we are this way. Again, as has been said already, I think this is in part down to our 5 seasons in the SPL where survival was so important...more important than gaining an extra place or two...that teams were/are almost forced to play more defensively.

I also think it is, in large part, down to the amount of pressure on the team at home. As I've said many times, on many threads, our fans expect much too much from the team. They are basically lambs being sent to the slaughter when the exit that tunnel at TCS. The Board started it with promises and pledges of "Bouncing Straight Back" and the fans are a little too fickle to realise that whilst they (the Board) were making all the right noises, the noises we perhaps wanted to hear, it takes more than words to compete, let alone be contenders.

I still remember the days when going a goal (or even 2 goals) served to get the fans more and more behind the team. It's quite the opposite these days....not only do we have a more subdued crowd, but we have a crowd who tend to get on the teams backs far too quickly. One thing that really annoys me and does nothing to help is this tendency for our fans to be more worried about what's going on around them, who might be "looking at them", when they their focus should be on supporting the team.

Unfortunately there's no switch than can be flicked to cure things en masse, but we do have the power/option to take responsibility for what we do as individuals. If you're one of the more vocal fans then stop looking around or worrying about what others might be thinking, and if you're one of the lesser vocal fans then sit there and enjoy the game the way you want to and leave the rest to enjoy it the way they want to. Being loud or quiet doesn't make you any better or worse a fan......but stopping/preventing other fans from enjoying the game the way they want to does as it means people are not doing what they should be there to do.....supporting the team.

So......from what I can see, it's a bit of a catch 22. So long as the fans are quick to get on the teams back then they're not going to have the confidence to do anything other than what they are out there doing at the moment, and so long as the team are out there doing what they are doing at the moment, the fans are going to find it hard to change their habits.

No one person has the ability/power to fix everything, but if we each do our bit then things can be changed, and changed for the better. We all have a part to play, and we all need to look at ourselves and what we do, just as much as we might look at others and what they do.....and that goes for the fans, the players, the management team and the club staff and board.

Excellent post. By the way, how was the support for the team today? Did the fans get behind them a little more? I haven't heard any reports of booing, although clearly there are a few people who weren't happy with the performance again.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I pondered about bringing this thread back but it has turned out to have the most sensible posts in a long, long time. I practically agree with everything that has been said - even Renegade is making total sense !!

You have however to marry the fans role and the players role - If we thought that we would be attack minded and comiited we would be getting behind the team - even if we went down 1-0 or 2-0. The fans have to have a sense of confidence in the system.

I would go one further than the SPL tactic thing - I said after the Airdrie game that it was akin to the National Team tactics and set plays. Lets be a mediocre SFL side who relaxes, tries to play football and goes fer bust from the off. The defensive mindedness to me is exemplified by Rosscoe - bring back the foraging full back of yesteryear. I never thought I would say thi but even Zadi provided us with more entertainment in one game than we have had all season.

We have players who can defend - we actually have some players with a fair degree of technical ability - we have players who like to attack - Lets go back to being natural fer fecks sake.

Bringing Back Pele will never happen but bringing back some of his philosophies would be a remedy.

[stevico1]

Bringing Back Pele will never happen but bringing back some of his philosophies would be a remedy.

Spot on , at least when teams come up to TCS let their defenders be worried because they know they are going to be run ragged, let us boss the game and bring some entertainment back. We have 2 points from 15 from Butchers boring approach can it get any worse if we at least try this.

Edited October 18, 2009 by stevico1

[bauhaus]

Problem with playing 4 or 5 forwards is we are liable to get ripped apart and picked off at will. No team in the sfl dont know how to defend. All have decent midfielders and attacker who given the room of an empty midfield will find their attackers with several good chances each during a game. As things stand we do not have a team that can dominate a game like Barca, even for the sfl2. However do we want to be a real madrid who will never have a goalless game but will not be good enough to keep many clean sheets. Entertaining yes, but bloody frustrating too. What we do need is more attack minded midfield to supply the forwards, A holding midfielder who rarely leaves his post and a good creative player behind two strikers who want to attack the goal not the corner flag. What do defenders hate the most, directness, as they are under pressure to get it right every time, and nobody is that good in the sfl. Personally I think that with Odhiambo back soon, Imrie getting fitter, Sanchez creating, Forans passion and experience, we will not be far away and things will improve soon. Not worried about County or Queens, but cant let Dee and Plastic Whistle get much further away as they have better squads for the long winter coming up. Having said all that I like the no fear attitude of the young players pushing to come through, but doubt they will get to many chances as long as we are making hard work of the league. Plenty of time to catch up, 7 points aint a lot if you go on a run!