ICT v UTD - Statathon

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

Cantbeatus, how do you rate DU 'bigger' than ICT? is it because DU have a petrol mower at Tannadice and our dear Tommy uses a scythe?

You see for us the formula is simple, we can only rate ourselves against other SPL teams by our performance since we joined this 'elite'? three seasons ago not by what happened 30 years ago, so it means that simply based on facts and figures we are a 'bigger' club than Dundai Utd given that we finish higher and therefore reap more financial rewards.

BTW all you grammer fans, is 'bigger' a real word as used by Cantbeatus. Surely ICT are BETTER.

[Guest 1MORESEASONBLACK]

Cantbeatus, how do you rate DU 'bigger' than ICT? is it because DU have a petrol mower at Tannadice and our dear Tommy uses a scythe?

You see for us the formula is simple, we can only rate ourselves against other SPL teams by our performance since we joined this 'elite'? three seasons ago not by what happened 30 years ago, so it means that simply based on facts and figures we are a 'bigger' club than Dundai Utd given that we finish higher and therefore reap more financial rewards.

BTW all you grammer fans, is 'bigger' a real word as used by Cantbeatus. Surely ICT are BETTER.

Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest cantbeatus]

Cantbeatus, how do you rate DU 'bigger' than ICT? is it because DU have a petrol mower at Tannadice and our dear Tommy uses a scythe?

You see for us the formula is simple, we can only rate ourselves against other SPL teams by our performance since we joined this 'elite'? three seasons ago not by what happened 30 years ago, so it means that simply based on facts and figures we are a 'bigger' club than Dundai Utd given that we finish higher and therefore reap more financial rewards.

BTW all you grammer fans, is 'bigger' a real word as used by Cantbeatus. Surely ICT are BETTER.

Crap post, so we rate it by your 3 years? why just 3 years? why not 4 or 5 or 10?

Have you finished 5th in the SPL?, we did that in 2004...so are we bigger & better as thats in your 3 year time frame we must compare in?

P.S. i rate us bigger in every way than ICT you can come up with, i know we are bigger....on the park you have been admittedly better for 2 seasons, hardly an achievement finishing 1 position and then 2 positions above the worst United sides in memory.

[Guest cantbeatus]

I agree.  Hibs would be a step in the right direction, but IMO any player going to Dundee Utd is taking a backwards step. I can understand Proctor going as he is more likely to get 1st team football there.  Dundee Utd have been a bigger club than ICT but right now they are struggling to achieve any sort of success and have increasing debts.  Financially we are more stable and on the park we have performed better.  So how can Utd be a step up??????

Everton finished above Liverpool 2 seasons ago, after that season would an Everton player moving to Liverpool be seen as a backwards step?

2 seasons in the top flight in your history and suddenly you are a bigger & better club  :015:

Do it for a decade or more and start increasing your crowds etc, then start to say that.

[RiG]

As much as it pains me to say it I agree with the Arab regarding what has been said here - just because we have finished above Dundee United in two seasons (I think) we aren't bigger. When Milan were twatting about in the middle of Serie A they were still bigger than Udinese.

I still think that Black won't really benefit if he went to Hibs/United though.

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

Hmm, Cantbeatus, Time Frames? Ok let's look at Dundai Untied's 'Time Frame' over the last 8 years.

2006 - 9th

2005 - 9th

2004 - 5th

2003 - 11th

2002 - 7th

2001 - 11th

2000 - 8th ( ten teams)

1999 - 9th ( ten teams )

So yes, I will admit that 2004 was a GLORY year for you but that record doesn't make good reading now does it? in fact it stinks and overall nearly every year apart from your GLORY year you have been hangin on by the skin of yer teeth, so get off your soapbox and spend your energies on your own forum pleading with your team to stop embarressing you.

Anyway to finish and lets be honest here that if you were to ask the average fan and pundit in Scotland who has the better street cred right now between our two teams I doubt if the answer would be DU.

Thats it for me.

[Guest cantbeatus]

Hmm, Cantbeatus, Time Frames? Ok let's look at Dundai Untied's 'Time Frame' over the last 8 years.

2006 - 9th

2005 - 9th

2004 - 5th

2003 - 11th

2002 - 7th

2001 - 11th

2000 - 8th ( ten teams)

1999 - 9th ( ten teams )

So yes, I will admit that 2004 was a GLORY year for you but that record doesn't make good reading now does it? in fact it stinks and overall nearly every year apart from your GLORY year you have been hangin on by the skin of yer teeth, so get off your soapbox and spend your energies on your own forum pleading with your team to stop embarressing you.

Anyway to finish and lets be honest here that if you were to ask the average fan and pundit in Scotland who has the better street cred right now between our two teams I doubt if the answer would be DU.

Thats it for me.

Why 8 years?  :017:

We finished 3rd in 97 (9 wins in a row, 17 games unbeaten, 2 defeats in 29 etc)

I know we have only had 2 good finishes in the last decade, we have still been an SPL side, so all you have proved that

in 6 of the last 8 seasons we have been better than ICT?...Street cred, aye ok  :015: think i'll take our last decade(although fairly poor)

over being in the lower leagues, this is GLORY for you, every season spent in the SPL is, 5th place certainly wasn't for United but it was

higher than ICT have ever finished in Scottish Football.

We have been in 3 relegation battles in that time, we havent cheated relegation like other clubs have.

I could add more...

2006 - 7th

2005 - 8th

2004 - diddy team

2003 - diddy team

2002 - diddy

2001 - diddy

2000 - diddy

1999 - diddy

etc

Shall we compare cup runs next?

[Scotty]

Cantbeatus - shall we look at PROGRESS then ??? Even your tangerine tinted specs cant fail to admit the progress that ICT have made to reach the SPL has been immense ... and given that we were only formed in 1994 it would be quite difficult to compare SPL records as we had to work hard to get there by moving up the divisions. Call us a diddy team if you like but with only one blip in 2001/02 we have IMPROVED our league position in 11 of our 12 league seasons.

ICT 1994-2006

1994/5 - 3rd Division - 6th place .... our first season in senior football

1995/6 - 3rd Division - 3rd place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1996/7 - 3rd Division - 1st place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1997/8 - 2nd Division - 5th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1998/9 - 2nd Division - 2nd place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1999/0 - 1st Division - 6th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2000/1 - 1st Division - 4th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2001/2 - 1st Division - 6th place .... the ONLY season we didnt do better than the last one

2002/3 - 1st Division - 4th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2003/4 - 1st Division - 1st place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2004/5 - SPL - 8th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2005/6 - SPL - 7th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

Hmmm, 1997 Cantbeatus, well on the back of a draw we had today and given that you know our record against Celtic lets see how well Dunai Unedited have done against the hoops since 1997.

10-May-1997 Celtic 3 - 0  Dundee United

27-Sep-1997 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

22-Nov-1997 Celtic 4 - 0  Dundee United

27-Jan-1998 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

15-Mar-1998 Celtic 1 - 1  Dundee United

22-Aug-1998 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

12-Dec-1998 Dundee United 1 - 1  Celtic

27-Feb-1999 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

23-May-1999 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

15-Sep-1999 Dundee United 2 - 1  Celtic

18-Dec-1999 Celtic 4 - 1  Dundee United

02-May-2000 Dundee United 0 - 1  Celtic

21-May-2000 Celtic 2 - 0  Dundee United

30-Jul-2000 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

21-Oct-2000 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

26-Dec-2000 Dundee United 0 - 4  Celtic

20-Oct-2001 Celtic 5 - 1  Dundee United

29-Dec-2001 Dundee United 0 - 4  Celtic

16-Mar-2002 Celtic 1 - 0  Dundee United

17-Aug-2002 Celtic 5 - 0  Dundee United

10-Nov-2002 Dundee United 0 - 2  Celtic

29-Jan-2003 Celtic 2 - 0  Dundee United

16-Aug-2003 Celtic 5 - 0  Dundee United

22-Nov-2003 Dundee United 1 - 5  Celtic

14-Feb-2004 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

16-May-2004 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

Dearie me!!! you have beaten them once in all that time, and whats all those fours and fives I'm seeing? lets see if I can get my sums right, I make it a total of 69 goals for Cellic and 17 for Dundai Untitled. Shall I trot out the Rangers stats fer ye, no maybe not, you've got enough to be going on with the noo.

69-17 Tell me again about Diddy teams ya Bam. Yer a joke to the Cellic support.

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

Ach!! I couldn't help mesel, tough being a teuchter, sorry Cantbeatus for the memory xx

22-Sep-2001 Dundee United 1 - 6  Rangers

[tm4tj]

Bigger is not always best. :017:

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

To be fair though you did mention Cups so here are your stats in the Cup since your formation, you've not been very lucky though have you only winning it once out of six shots, and those big bad boys Celtic humped yez three times, and imagine Motherwell putting four past a big team like yersels? Oh the affrontery!!

1973-74  F 04-May Celtic 3 - 0 Dundee United at Hampden Park

1980-81  F 09-May Dundee United 0 - 0 Rangers at Hampden Park

 R 12-May Dundee United 1 - 4 Rangers at Hampden Park

1984-85  F 18-May Celtic 2 - 1 Dundee United at Hampden Park

1987-88  F 14-May Celtic 2 - 1 Dundee United at Hampden Park

1990-91  F 18-May Dundee United 3 - 4 Motherwell at Hampden Park

1993-94  F 21-May Dundee United 1 - 0 Rangers at Hampden Park

 

[The Mantis]

You forgot St Midden in 87...

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

My stats show this fer 86-87, the ither Dundai.

1986-87  F 16-May Dundee 0 - 1 St.Mirren at Hampden Park

[The Mantis]

Just back to the stattothon for a sec- it was definitely the arabs in 87 Sandy, I was working beside one at the time.

The media made them favourites and of course he was suicidal when the inevitable happened and 'hun features' Ian Ferguson scored the winner.

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

Yer Right wise owl, my stats said Dundai but the official Scottish Cup site confirms it was Dundai Untitted.

What an absolute affront! and who do those Numpty Teuchters St Mirren think they are by beating a GREAT BIG team like Dundai Unsuited, Oh the SHAME!!!

Looks like our friend has abandoned us, nothing like sustained memory lane broadsides for losing these interlopers, thing is that still some of them see us as upstarts and have no right to be where we are, they'll learn. 

[Guest cantbeatus]

Cantbeatus - shall we look at PROGRESS then ??? Even your tangerine tinted specs cant fail to admit the progress that ICT have made to reach the SPL has been immense ... and given that we were only formed in 1994 it would be quite difficult to compare SPL records as we had to work hard to get there by moving up the divisions. Call us a diddy team if you like but with only one blip in 2001/02 we have IMPROVED our league position in 11 of our 12 league seasons.

ICT 1994-2006

1994/5 - 3rd Division - 6th place .... our first season in senior football

1995/6 - 3rd Division - 3rd place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1996/7 - 3rd Division - 1st place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1997/8 - 2nd Division - 5th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1998/9 - 2nd Division - 2nd place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

1999/0 - 1st Division - 6th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2000/1 - 1st Division - 4th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2001/2 - 1st Division - 6th place .... the ONLY season we didnt do better than the last one

2002/3 - 1st Division - 4th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2003/4 - 1st Division - 1st place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2004/5 - SPL - 8th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

2005/6 - SPL - 7th place .... an IMPROVEMENT on the previous season

Where did i say you hadn't made good progress?

I've been impressed with how ICT have progressed and how fast they have did so

i just dont see how you can deny United are a bigger club.

[Guest cantbeatus]

Hmmm, 1997 Cantbeatus, well on the back of a draw we had today and given that you know our record against Celtic lets see how well Dunai Unedited have done against the hoops since 1997.

10-May-1997 Celtic 3 - 0  Dundee United

27-Sep-1997 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

22-Nov-1997 Celtic 4 - 0  Dundee United

27-Jan-1998 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

15-Mar-1998 Celtic 1 - 1  Dundee United

22-Aug-1998 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

12-Dec-1998 Dundee United 1 - 1  Celtic

27-Feb-1999 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

23-May-1999 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

15-Sep-1999 Dundee United 2 - 1  Celtic

18-Dec-1999 Celtic 4 - 1  Dundee United

02-May-2000 Dundee United 0 - 1  Celtic

21-May-2000 Celtic 2 - 0  Dundee United

30-Jul-2000 Dundee United 1 - 2  Celtic

21-Oct-2000 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

26-Dec-2000 Dundee United 0 - 4  Celtic

20-Oct-2001 Celtic 5 - 1  Dundee United

29-Dec-2001 Dundee United 0 - 4  Celtic

16-Mar-2002 Celtic 1 - 0  Dundee United

17-Aug-2002 Celtic 5 - 0  Dundee United

10-Nov-2002 Dundee United 0 - 2  Celtic

29-Jan-2003 Celtic 2 - 0  Dundee United

16-Aug-2003 Celtic 5 - 0  Dundee United

22-Nov-2003 Dundee United 1 - 5  Celtic

14-Feb-2004 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

16-May-2004 Celtic 2 - 1  Dundee United

Dearie me!!! you have beaten them once in all that time, and whats all those fours and fives I'm seeing? lets see if I can get my sums right, I make it a total of 69 goals for Cellic and 17 for Dundai Untitled. Shall I trot out the Rangers stats fer ye, no maybe not, you've got enough to be going on with the noo.

69-17 Tell me again about Diddy teams ya Bam. Yer a joke to the Cellic support.

Thats about the most stupid post in history, what have head to heads with Celtic got to do with this :015: are you a Celtic fan?

Celtic have been out bogey team since the mid 90's, won about 5-6 games against us 2-1 which we were leading with 10 mins to go, since we beat them in august 99 we went over 20 games losing everyone till Brewster took us to CP for a 3-3 draw, weird because we have been Rangers bogey team in the same time period, also weird to state that in the 80's Rangers were our bogey side and we always had a good record against Celtic, its flipped...how come you didnt start from february 97 btw...because we beat them?  :004:

[Guest cantbeatus]

Ach!! I couldn't help mesel, tough being a teuchter, sorry Cantbeatus for the memory xx

22-Sep-2001 Dundee United 1 - 6  Rangers

A poor result, strange game, og from us after 2 minutes, mcintyre equalised after 30mins and we went in 1-1

at half time, stayed like that till last 20mins then we collapsed, i left after the 4th i admit, these things can happen

especially in the late 90's early 00's when the gap between the OF & the rest was quite a lot, although that was Rangers

biggest ever win at Tannadice.

United 2-1 Rangers 22-09-1990

United 3-2 Rangers 29-10-1991

Rangers 0-3 United 11-12-1993

United 0-0 Rangers 05-04-1994

United 1-0 Rangers 21-05-1994 Cup Final!  :notworthy01: Brooooster  :001:

Rangers 1-1 United 04-02-1995

United 1-0 Rangers 10-12-1996

Rangers 0-2 United 12-03-1997

Rangers 0-1 United 09-09-1997 Lge Cup QF

United 2-1 Rangers 25-10-1997

United 0-0 Rangers 12-09-1998

Rangers 0-1 United 20-03-1999

United 1-1 Rangers 17-12-2000

United 1-0 Rangers 11-03-2001 Cup QF

Rangers 0-2 United 31-03-2001

United 2-0 Rangers 29-02-2004

United 3-3 Rangers 24-04-2004

Rangers 1-1 United 24-10-2004

United 1-1 Rangers 01-01-2005

Rangers 0-1 United 12-04-2005

United 0-0 Rangers 16-10-2005

Rangers 2-2 United 05-08-2006

[Guest cantbeatus]

To be fair though you did mention Cups so here are your stats in the Cup since your formation, you've not been very lucky though have you only winning it once out of six shots, and those big bad boys Celtic humped yez three times, and imagine Motherwell putting four past a big team like yersels? Oh the affrontery!!

1973-74  F 04-May Celtic 3 - 0 Dundee United at Hampden Park

1980-81  F 09-May Dundee United 0 - 0 Rangers at Hampden Park

 R 12-May Dundee United 1 - 4 Rangers at Hampden Park

1984-85  F 18-May Celtic 2 - 1 Dundee United at Hampden Park

1987-88  F 14-May Celtic 2 - 1 Dundee United at Hampden Park

1990-91  F 18-May Dundee United 3 - 4 Motherwell at Hampden Park

1993-94  F 21-May Dundee United 1 - 0 Rangers at Hampden Park

 

You arent very bright are you?  :015: I think you might be a closet tim.

Our major finals, yes we have lost more than we have won, and should have won more than we did but thats football, now where are ICT's?

1973/74 - SCF - 04/05/1974 - Celtic 3-0 United - 75,959

1979/80 - LCF - 08/12/1979 - Aberdeen 0-0 United - 27,299

1979/80 - LCF - 12/12/1979 - Aberdeen 0-3 United - 28,984 - Dens Park (Replay)  :clapping04:

1980/81 - LCF - 06/12/1980 - Dundee 0-3 United - 24,466 - Dens Park  :clapping04:

1980/81 - SCF - 09/05/1981 - Rangers 0-0 United - 53,000

1980/81 - SCF - 12/05/1981 - Rangers 4-1 United - 43,099 (Replay)

1981/82 - LCF - 28/11/1981 - Rangers 2-1 United - 53,795

1984/85 - LCF - 28/10/1984 - Rangers 1-0 United - 44,698

1984/85 - SCF - 18/05/1985 - Celtic 2-1 United - 60,346

1986/87 - UEF - 06/05/1987 - IFK Gothenburg 1-0 United - 50,023 - Ullevi Stadium (1st Leg)

1986/87 - SCF - 16/05/1987 - St Mirren 1-0 United - 51,782

1986/87 - UEF - 20/05/1987 - United 1-1 IFK Gothenburg - 20,911 - Tannadice (2nd Leg)

1987/88 - SCF - 14/05/1988 - Celtic 2-1 United - 74,000

1990/91 - SCF - 18/05/1991 - Motherwell 4-3 United - 57,319

1993/94 - SCF - 21/05/1994 - Rangers 0-1 United - 37,709  :clapping04:

1997/98 - LCF - 30/11/1997 - Celtic 3-0 United - 49,305 - Ibrox

2004/05 - SCF - 28/05/2005 - Celtic 1-0 United - 50,635

[Guest ICtinAngus]

cantbeatus,

All your Tinksville Utd stats are all very interesting I'm sure, but you really need to find a better hobby or get a job, your wasting too much of your life.  Its only football.

However, as there's nothing better than hearing the endless "em never wrong" attitude of Dundonians.  I ask you, as Queens Park won the mass of the early Scottish Cups, Leagues etc, made up most or all of our first national teams and is still the home of our national stadium, does this make them bigger than Utd? 

Discuss......................

[Johnboy]

cantbeatus,

All your Tinksville Utd stats are all very interesting I'm sure, but you really need to find a better hobby or get a job, your wasting too much of your life.  Its only football.

However, as there's nothing better than hearing the endless "em never wrong" attitude of Dundonians.  I ask you, as Queens Park won the mass of the early Scottish Cups, Leagues etc, made up most or all of our first national teams and is still the home of our national stadium, does this make them bigger than Utd? 

Discuss......................

Of course Queens Park are bigger than United. Who isn't? They are nothing but a pathetic small minded provincial club in a pathetic run down small minded provincial city.... :015: :015:

Even Jim McLean used to describe them as provincial..... :015:

[Guest cantbeatus]

cantbeatus,

All your Tinksville Utd stats are all very interesting I'm sure, but you really need to find a better hobby or get a job, your wasting too much of your life.  Its only football.

However, as there's nothing better than hearing the endless "em never wrong" attitude of Dundonians.  I ask you, as Queens Park won the mass of the early Scottish Cups, Leagues etc, made up most or all of our first national teams and is still the home of our national stadium, does this make them bigger than Utd? 

Discuss......................

Of course Queens Park are bigger than United. Who isn't? They are nothing but a pathetic small minded provincial club in a pathetic run down small minded provincial city.... :015: :015:

Even Jim McLean used to describe them as provincial..... :015:

More interesting than sandy's celtic stats, atleast mine were related to the club i support, hardly wasting my life, takes seconds to copy & paste!  :015:, as for tinksville you would know living in inbred minksville.

You're point about QP, no of course they arent bigger than United, or ICT, they have been a lower division club for years & get gates of a couple hundred.

Every team in Scotland are provincial clubs you spoon, with the obvious exceptions, as for run down city, Dundee isnt a run down city, it has its crap areas like every other place, its actually a good place to live and has its very good areas aswell, and the city centre is good(better than Aberdeens for example) and also good for shopping for the size of the place.

Who isnt bigger than us? Well currently in Scotland everyone except Celtic, Rangers, Hearts Aberdeen & Hibs.

[Alex MacLeod]

I wish someone would tell me what the criteria is when measuring the size of a club.

Is it fanbase?

DU average home gate last season 8198. City population 143,000

ICT 5133 City population around 45000

So as a percentage of populations we are the bigger club with a fanbase of 11.4% compared to DU's 5.5%

Is it profit? We made money last season.

League position? We finished above DU every season since becoming members of the SPL.

The whole argument about who's the biggest club is irrelevant. Its ongoing success that matters. Not what happened in the past. Part of DU's problems are the result of trying to live of their past glories. They need to get their heads out of the sand and make their future. Not dwell on what was.

[caley100]

Alex, Inverness has a poulation near 70,000, it was 64k in 2003, Add 1000 poles per month and it is growing very quickly... if we could get all these Polish people to come and support ICT we would soon become bigger than Utd eh?